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How to fix dropsuit and role balance

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Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1037	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:10:00 - [1] - Quote The purpose of these proposed changes to fix the following: Eliminate "Brick tanking" which undermines the "shield vs armor" meta. Scraps CCP's definition of roles (assault, logi, scout, ect.) and allows the players to define their own roles. Give frame sizes different, clear, opportunities to be successful. I believe the current dropsuit/slot layout/module mechanics are flawed at the very foundation, which is why it needs a complete overhaul. Ideally, CCP needs to design a completely new customization/fitting mechanic for an FPS. The current fitting mechanics suggests that their idea never went farther than "Oh hey, lets copy/paste EVE spreadsheet mechanics onto FPS mechanics. What can go wrong?" This is just a rough idea with no actual numbers, only examples to showcase the basic ideas. If you have any questions, comments, or new ideas, please post. Move all health related modules to high slots Move all "support" modules to low slots (damage mods, precision enhancers) Remove the following dropsuit abominations: Assault, Scout, Sentinel, Commando, Logistics Equalize slot layouts between frame sizes (all light suits have the same slot layouts. All the mediums are the same. All the heavies are the same. Equalize CPU and PG between frame sizes. Give all relevant bonuses/module modifiers to dropsuits. Now let me explain further... Equalize slot layout between frame sizes - This is important because it eliminates an unnecessary variable in gameplay balance. It makes all dropsuits within frame sizes have equal potential. The differences between these suits come from their bonuses/modifiers and lore/cosmetic/artistic styles. No dropsuit will be gimped because of a lower slot count. Example: (PRO) light suits will have 3H-5L-3Eq, Mediums 4H-4L-4Eq, Heavy 5H-3L-2Eq. This will be the same across all races. All races will be getting their respective racial, health, speed, ect. bonuses. Equalize CPU and PG between frame sizes - Because of the new slot layouts, CPU and PG become the master bottleneck of role building. CPU and PG should be adjusted so that it is impossible to use all the slots without the use of CPU and PG modifiers. This means, if I want to carry tons of proto equipment with max shields and proto/adv weapon, I will need to be using CPU and PG modifiers on all my low slots. Otherwise, I can ditch most the equipment and put kincats and damage modifiers in my low slots. Or, if I want equipment AND damage modifiers, I have the option to sacrifice health modules as well. Move all health related modules to high slots - The reason for this is to eliminate brick tanking, which undermines the Shield vs Armor gameplay. The current mechanics favor dropsuits with the most number of slots in their layouts. Due to slot count disparity between dropsuits, it's easy to see that the most effect, most versatile suits are the ones that are able to get the best of both worlds while sacrificing nothing. If all health modules moved to high slots, the player using shields will have to sacrifice some of his shield modules in order to equip armor modules. Example: A player, who has a caldari medium suit, may choose to shield tank by using 4 shield modules. However, he also created a suit that uses three armor modules and one shield module for better survivability against scramblers. NOTE: Caldari suits will not be able to use armor modules as effectively as Amarr and Gallante suits. Move all "support" modules to low slots - All non-health related modules are essentially "role builders". These low slot modules is how you define and create your role on the battlefield. By using a combination of non-health modules, you can create custom roles, like assault-hacker, scout-assault, support-hacker, flanker-unicorn, ect. Remove the following dropsuit abominations: Assault, Scout, Sentinel, Commando, Logistics - LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE WHAT A SCOUT/ASSAULT/LOGISTICS ROLE IS. This was a nice try. But these suits are a failure nonetheless. With only two bonuses, often irrelevant bonuses, these suits feel like a last minute SP sink addition. These suits undermine player creativity and it in fact undermines CCP's own statement on how modules were supposed to be the main focus of dropsuit customization and role building. (this was way back in closed beta when prototype suits had better base stats than advanced and standard suits). DISCLAIMER: It's 9:09 and I need to get to work. This i'm not done writing about this but I want to post this before I go to work. I'll be back to answer questions and elaborate . I reiterate, this is unfinished work.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1136	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:41:00 - [2] - Quote Uh. How do I say this? I'm all for tiericide, but this is a bit... excessive. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 158	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:46:00 - [3] - Quote Message from Godin: You took tiercide, but just made it........ awful. Just no, stop.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1207	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:49:00 - [4] - Quote Sorry cake but that's just plain boring "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Cosgar ParagonX 8481	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:51:00 - [5] - Quote What is this? I don't even... I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2693	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:53:00 - [6] - Quote Its going to take destructive / reconstructive thinking like OP's to fix this broken game. +1 to OP for having the sense to recognize this fact, the b*lls to point it out, and the brains to come up with a solution. -1 to every one of you who are content with the way things are.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 158	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:57:00 - [7] - Quote Message from Godin: This would work far better than your idea.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 158	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:00:00 - [8] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Its going to take destructive / reconstructive thinking like OP's to fix this broken game. +1 to OP for having the sense to recognize this fact, the b*lls to point it out, and the brains to come up with a solution. -1 to every one of you who are content with the way things are. Message from Godin: We aren't I bet every one of us likes tiercide (as the first 2 posts stated, and Cosgar has said that he likes the idea), but this is just too much, and some of it makes no sense whatsoever.
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1039	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:15:00 - [9] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: Its going to take destructive / reconstructive thinking like OP's to fix this broken game. +1 to OP for having the sense to recognize this fact, the b*lls to point it out, and the brains to come up with a solution. -1 to every one of you who are content with the way things are. Message from Godin: We aren't I bet every one of us likes tiercide (as the first 2 posts stated, and Cosgar has said that he likes the idea), but this is just too much, and some of it makes no sense whatsoever. What doesn't make sense?
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1298	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:32:00 - [10] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Give all relevant bonuses/module modifiers to dropsuits. Nothing else needed. With the exception of the perks and where they come from the system is good. We need suit bonuses and more modules. Those two things are all we need. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.

Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 158	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:05:00 - [11] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: Its going to take destructive / reconstructive thinking like OP's to fix this broken game. +1 to OP for having the sense to recognize this fact, the b*lls to point it out, and the brains to come up with a solution. -1 to every one of you who are content with the way things are. Message from Godin: We aren't I bet every one of us likes tiercide (as the first 2 posts stated, and Cosgar has said that he likes the idea), but this is just too much, and some of it makes no sense whatsoever. What doesn't make sense? Message from Godin: All of it.
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1039	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:57:00 - [12] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Protocake JR wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: Its going to take destructive / reconstructive thinking like OP's to fix this broken game. +1 to OP for having the sense to recognize this fact, the b*lls to point it out, and the brains to come up with a solution. -1 to every one of you who are content with the way things are. Message from Godin: We aren't I bet every one of us likes tiercide (as the first 2 posts stated, and Cosgar has said that he likes the idea), but this is just too much, and some of it makes no sense whatsoever. What doesn't make sense? Message from Godin: All of it. Why does it not make sense?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8468	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:57:00 - [13] - Quote I've always wondered Are you Protoman? Or just a fan? Win ISK / Vids / O7
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1040	Posted - 2013.12.08 06:00:00 - [14] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I've always wondered Are you Protoman? Or just a fan? I'm not protoman. Definitely an inspiration though.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8468	Posted - 2013.12.08 06:01:00 - [15] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I've always wondered Are you Protoman? Or just a fan? I'm not protoman. Definitely an inspiration though. Ah, ok. I was gonna say, if you were, your posts have gotten much better lol. He's definitely one of the best players I've ever come across, but his forum PvP was eeehhhh. Win ISK / Vids / O7
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 408	Posted - 2013.12.08 06:21:00 - [16] - Quote I agree with the sentiment, but I disagree with some of the particulars of your proposal. One thing in particular is all races having the same slot layout. Doing that could decrease diversity significantly. Equalizing high and lows within each racial frame could be good. That way, logis and assaults have the same highs and lows, for example. It would either function as the needed logi nerf or the assault buff. A little unrelated, but your post [specifically the bit about "LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE..." at the end ] made me ponder the possibility of customizable slot layouts, so we could in effect, create our own suit. Want a scout with, say, six high slots, but no grenade or equipment? Or medium frame that sacrifices a bunch of highs and/or lows to have six equipment slots? Make it. Anyway, tiericide seems to be the way to go. But how to get there... I am at a loss.
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1041	Posted - 2013.12.08 14:23:00 - [17] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I agree with the sentiment, but I disagree with some of the particulars of your proposal. One thing in particular is all races having the same slot layout. Doing that could decrease diversity significantly. Equalizing high and lows within each racial frame could be good. That way, logis and assaults have the same highs and lows, for example. It would either function as the needed logi nerf or the assault buff. A little unrelated, but your post [specifically the bit about "LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE..." at the end ] made me ponder the possibility of customizable slot layouts, so we could in effect, create our own suit. Want a scout with, say, six high slots, but no grenade or equipment? Or medium frame that sacrifices a bunch of highs and/or lows to have six equipment slots? Make it. Anyway, tiericide seems to be the way to go. But how to get there... I am at a loss. I'm not sure how this idea would decrease diversity. With this idea, ALL dropsuits become viable. Roles become clear cut (not proto 90% of the modules). Play PC, It's all Caldari Logi and Gallante Logi (with a few outliers like scouts and amarr). How is that diversity? By balancing these suits, we can see the "shield vs armor" and "hit & run vs stand your ground" gameplay mechanics come into fruition. Don't get me wrong, I know that there are people out there that pride themselves on using underpowered suits and all, however that is not the kind of diversity I want in this game. In terms of practical reasons why this is bad, players (who may spend money on boosters and such) who have skilled into irrelevant/useless suits may feel cheated because they unknowingly skilled into a bad suit. This is, simply put, bad gameplay mechanics. The way I see it, this new idea creates more diversity. Think about it: it would be possible to have a light frame speed logi. A light frame assault. A stealthy medium flanker. I could go on and on and on. EVERY suit becomes viable for different roles.


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