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How to fix Armor v Shield

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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 791	Posted - 2013.12.07 08:02:00 - [1] - Quote Logi's & armor tankers everywhere love the new armor repping bonuses that have been pouring in, CCP doesn't see yet that they've taken it much too far. TTK being as low as it is, the new rifles are going to have next to no effect on the situation. So I'm going to share some of my ideas for fixing this, feel free to share yours. Give armor repping modules an HP debuff like shield energizers (only a minor one). (B, E, C: 1%, 3%, 5% of total armor after applying modules) Reduce the strongest armor repping proto hive down to 50hp every 2 seconds and balance the rest down from that (armor repping hives are meant to be used as a portable HP rep to be used in emergencies like when a shield suit ducks into cover to recover, not a magic portable extended HP buffer to camp on.). Cut armor repair of all repair tools by 5%, and the WP accrual rate by 10% (no offense to logi's, we all love you guys, but the speed of WP accrual from a rep tool is ridiculous and by suggesting this now I am trying to prevent a larger backlash in the future) Give all armor suits a penalty to using shield modules (30% cut to HP gained from a module) Give all shield suits a penalty to using armor modules (40% cut to HP gained from regular armor modules, does not apply to ferroscale or reactive) Fix passive scanning modules so they are worth using in high slots Change damage mods to low modules Change hacking, PG upgrades & Dampners to high modules What are some of your ideas? MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 08:21:00 - [2] - Quote Epicsting pro wrote: New shield balancing are in next patch the more shields you stack the longer your shield recharge delay. Oh I would like a armor rep mod that base off missing armor %. This new addition actually furthers the gap between the two, here's an example of why. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 08:32:00 - [3] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Logi's & armor tankers everywhere love the new armor repping bonuses that have been pouring in, CCP doesn't see yet that they've taken it much too far. TTK being as low as it is, the new rifles are going to have next to no effect on the situation. So I'm going to share some of my ideas for fixing this, feel free to share yours. Give armor repping modules an HP debuff like shield energizers (only a minor one). (B, E, C: 1%, 3%, 5% of total armor after applying modules) Reduce the strongest armor repping proto hive down to 50hp every 2 seconds and balance the rest down from that (armor repping hives are meant to be used as a portable HP rep to be used in emergencies like when a shield suit ducks into cover to recover, not a magic portable extended HP buffer to camp on.). Cut armor repair of all repair tools by 5%, and the WP accrual rate by 10% (no offense to logi's, we all love you guys, but the speed of WP accrual from a rep tool is ridiculous and by suggesting this now I am trying to prevent a larger backlash in the future) Give all armor suits a penalty to using shield modules (30% cut to HP gained from a module) Give all shield suits a penalty to using armor modules (40% cut to HP gained from regular armor modules, does not apply to ferroscale or reactive) Fix passive scanning modules so they are worth using in high slots Change damage mods to low modules Change hacking, PG upgrades & Dampners to high modules What are some of your ideas? I has a question: Will this solve the problem people have with Killer Bees? If so, I'm in. This would make them sacrifice HP for damage mods and severely hamper their ability to campon hives that constantly rep their armor, so.... yes. It would go a long way towards fixing killer bees. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 09:04:00 - [4] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Logi's & armor tankers everywhere love the new armor repping bonuses that have been pouring in, CCP doesn't see yet that they've taken it much too far. TTK being as low as it is, the new rifles are going to have next to no effect on the situation. So I'm going to share some of my ideas for fixing this, feel free to share yours. Give armor repping modules an HP debuff like shield energizers (only a minor one). (B, E, C: 1%, 3%, 5% of total armor after applying modules) Reduce the strongest armor repping proto hive down to 50hp every 2 seconds and balance the rest down from that (armor repping hives are meant to be used as a portable HP rep to be used in emergencies like when a shield suit ducks into cover to recover, not a magic portable extended HP buffer to camp on.). Cut armor repair of all repair tools by 5%, and the WP accrual rate by 10% (no offense to logi's, we all love you guys, but the speed of WP accrual from a rep tool is ridiculous and by suggesting this now I am trying to prevent a larger backlash in the future) Give all armor suits a penalty to using shield modules (30% cut to HP gained from a module) Give all shield suits a penalty to using armor modules (40% cut to HP gained from regular armor modules, does not apply to ferroscale or reactive) Fix passive scanning modules so they are worth using in high slots Change damage mods to low modules Change hacking, PG upgrades & Dampners to high modules What are some of your ideas? I has a question: Will this solve the problem people have with Killer Bees? If so, I'm in. This would make them sacrifice HP for damage mods and severely hamper their ability to campon hives that constantly rep their armor, so.... yes. It would go a long way towards fixing killer bees. Cool. Btw, I AM a Killer Bee... sometimes. So, there's that. I have a basic bee, but I almost never use it since it has no highs. I love my high slots. =) MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 09:40:00 - [5] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I hate when people *** and moan about "Killer bees". I put down uplinks, that you spawned on. I put down hives, that filled your ammo and repaired your armor. I picked you up, saving your suit. When I'm not doing these things, I'm killing. So what? Should I just stand there and do nothing? No I'm going to go slay. On topic. Shield vs Armor balance is fine-ish right now. All "shield" suits except minassault can armor tank just as good as armor suits (at the loss of repair modules) and repair hives cost 30K for "the good ones". Saw a callogi with exactly 700 armor last night. Was rediculous. Soooo.... since only Minassaults are gimped, it's fine? Or "fine-ish"? you too buddy. The only way to survive in a Minassault with our insanely low by comparison EHP is to run an ADV dampner and that only protects you from lvl 3 scanners and below. And that's half of your low slots gone while taking up 24 CPU that you now cannot use to fill your 5 high slots. And our 5 high slots are now getting nerfed since shield extenders now have a recharge delay penalty. On the flip side, all armor suits can stand on 4 hives with 800+ armor and take a full clip of almost any weapon, then be fully repaired by the time the enemy finishes reloading. Tell me again how shield and armor are balanced. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!! MATARI PRIDE!!** FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 10:18:00 - [6] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Logi's & armor tankers everywhere love the new armor repping bonuses that have been pouring in, CCP doesn't see yet that they've taken it much too far. TTK being as low as it is, the new rifles are going to have next to no effect on the situation. So I'm going to share some of my ideas for fixing this, feel free to share yours. Give armor repping modules an HP debuff like shield energizers (only a minor one). (B, E, C: 1%, 3%, 5% of total armor after applying modules) Reduce the strongest armor repping proto hive down to 50hp every 2 seconds and balance the rest down from that (armor repping hives are meant to be used as a portable HP rep to be used in emergencies like when a shield suit ducks into cover to recover, not a magic portable extended HP buffer to camp on.). Cut armor repair of all repair tools by 5%, and the WP accrual rate by 10% (no offense to logi's, we all love you guys, but the speed of WP accrual from a rep tool is ridiculous and by suggesting this now I am trying to prevent a larger backlash in the future) Give all armor suits a penalty to using shield modules (30% cut to HP gained from a module) Give all shield suits a penalty to using armor modules (40% cut to HP gained from regular armor modules, does not apply to ferroscale or reactive) Fix passive scanning modules so they are worth using in high slots Change damage mods to low modules Change hacking, PG upgrades & Dampners to high modules What are some of your ideas? You still driving over people with a Lav as your regular playstyle ? Anyways, so you want suits that have their first defensive barrier being shields, get damage mods, so you have Buffer and DPS? Opposed to any Armor suit having no safety margin in its high slots.....and has as much repair as 1 to 6 HP/S ? The problem with Armor stacking right now is the Logi suits, not the run of the mill Assault suit with 1 to 2 points worth of armor repping...and anyone fitting a proto hive on their assault suit is sacrificing something else. Lol those were the days.... back when you could just run around the field with a SL in a LLAV and chase vehicles all day and grief anyone who got in your way.... But alas, no. I quit that about a month after LLAV's popped up everywhere. It just felt so old fashioned by that time. I do still drive my Limbus however, mainly when I'm solo and my team is getting proto stomped. As for the assaults, you are mistaken. All it takes is 2 people running together. In my own corp there are examples of why. A logi runs with an assault. The Logi has a proto armor/ammo and a full triage hive with a repp tool, the assault with one proto triage hive. They then set down 4 proto triage hives down in a high traffic location with a set of armor/ammo hives and farm both kills and WP from triage & ammo resupplies. In fact, Kripter MAC runs solo exclusively with Triage hives and does exceedingly well in his Gallente assault. Yes, they do sacrifice something else. Like shield suits sacrifice HP for damage output, despite their HP buffs giving them less than half what armor buffs give. Like every suit in the game has to sacrifice when they want to run one gear over another. But when you can set up 2 proto triage hives next to a supply depot and dominate an entire team solo, or get in a squad and run as a group and do the same but faster since you'll have a scanner and ammo hives as well, something needs to be changed. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 10:34:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I'm ignoring your premise and inputting my own instead of coming up with a thoughtful response. FTFY MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 10:48:00 - [8] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Armor should cost more pg, and shields should cost more cpu, less pg. That way if you want to stack 4 armor plates you should take up a HUGE chunk of your fitting space to do so. Same as if you want to stack shields. Right now a basic plate only costs 10 cpu and 1 pg for 85 hp, whereas a basic shield costs 20ish cpu and 3 pg for 22 hp. That's the best balancing factor I have anyways, as shields cost so much fitting space where armor does not. The reason why we see so many people running 2-3 damage mods + 3-4 plates is because armor plates don't cost much in terms of fitting space...so why use other modules if they cost more? The armor issue doesn't just boil down to that though. Having only 2 viable high slot choices leaves damage mods the best choice for armor suits since they can already tank more than 2x the HP than shield suits with the same # of slots taken up, and on top of that still have all their highs free for damage mods. When you throw on top of that the myriad of speedy repair opportunities for armor suits compared to only passive repairs for shields, you are left with armor going far beyond being balanced against shields. Fitting cost adjustments would be another great idea, I'm not bashing that one bit. However that alone won't fix things. Especially for Minmatar suits, who hardly have a vast supply of CPU and their high slots are almost all they have. Shields getting nerfed plus requiring more CPU, topped with only 1 other viable high slot candidate (which is also very CPU intensive) leaves the Minmatar medium suits even worse off then they are now. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 10:50:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm ignoring your premise and inputting my own instead of coming up with a thoughtful response. FTFY There is no point. This would kill armor tanking, I would never touch my Gallente again. It would be in worse shape than pre armor buff. These were all individual ideas, not all to be implemented together. I'm not suggesting throw every armor nerf in the book at armor tankers, I'm suggesting we come up with ideas and couple a few of them together to try and balance them against shields. Apparently there was a bit of a misunderstanding, and I apologize for that. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 792	Posted - 2013.12.07 11:03:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm ignoring your premise and inputting my own instead of coming up with a thoughtful response. FTFY There is no point. This would kill armor tanking, I would never touch my Gallente again. It would be in worse shape than pre armor buff. These were all individual ideas, not all to be implemented together. I'm not suggesting throw every armor nerf in the book at armor tankers, I'm suggesting we come up with ideas and couple a few of them together to try and balance them against shields. Apparently there was a bit of a misunderstanding, and I apologize for that. Well, that's more reasonable. Honestly, armor and shields are equal. It's just the Logis that are out of whack. I would say it's the equipment moreso than the logi's, but I really don;t see CCP removing rep hives and uber-nerfing the repair tools this soon after buffing them so much. If these items stay as are, then armor tanking needs to be changed. Above all though, if nothing else, I agree with Shayz that PG costs for armor need to go up and that shield costs need to be fixed to be more CPU intensive than PG intensive. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 796	Posted - 2013.12.07 12:59:00 - [11] - Quote deleted MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!

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