| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2156
   |
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before I get started, IGÇÖm going to apologize if there is already a thread about this topic but I couldn't find it >.<
So after reading the Dev Blog posted (3rd December) about the FW changes coming with 1.7, the whole revamp looks like it going to be one of the best patches yet, but something really got my eye twitching and that thing was; LP Active Boosters. There are many reasons why this is just bad, bad, bad and IGÇÖm going to tell you how I think increased LP pay should be implemented.
Why is it bad you might be asking? - To those who would will be hitting up FW hard, who will be investing in some of these will be getting paid 25% more LP than than people without it. This is bad when you take the new LP items into consideration that they will be very sought after items to those who won't be running FW. Which means those items will have a very high resale value on the player market (when its implemented of course) but until then its gives those with the boosters to farm up as much LP as possible until then.
*Please Note* For those of you who play EVE, think of this like how the community flocked to grind out Sisters of EVE LPGÇÖs for the new ships released with Rubicon.
- Aurum is bad in general and it really doesn't help in the games defence that Dust 514 is not a Free to Play - Pay to Win, because in many aspects its not but its ever more approaching the threshold of being one. We don't need more Aurum based boosters.
"But I wont more LP's" Eve has a similar mechanic in play, to increase the amount of LPGÇÖs gained but this is a skill based investment and I think this mechanic should also be implemented into Dust. In EVE we have a branch of the skill tree called GÇ£SocialGÇ¥ where we can invest in various skills to do with social interaction with GÇ£AgentsGÇ¥ (they give us missions for PVE), Corporation and Faction standings. These are great for people who are efficient in running missions because it increases their overall income and the ability to run more missions with other corporations who they might not be on the good side of.
IGÇÖll give you the descriptions of the current Social skills in EVE that would be relevant to us in Dust, so you can get an idea of what IGÇÖm talking about:-
- Social - Skill at social interaction. 5% bonus per level to NPC agent, corporation and faction standing increase.
- Connections - Skill at interacting with friendly NPCs. 4% Modifier to effective standing from friendly NPC Corporations and Factions per level.
- Diplomacy - Skill at interacting with hostile Agents in order to de-escalate tense situations as demonstrated by some of the finest diplomats in New Eden. 4% Modifier per level to effective standing towards hostile Agents. Not cumulative with Connections or Criminal Connections.
These ones don't have any place in Dust (at the moment) considering there is no PVE: security, mining or distribution missions, but here they are anyway to give you an idea how the Social branch would help in other areas:
- Security Connections - Improves loyalty point gain by 10% per level when working for agents in the Security corporation division.
- Mining Connections - Improves loyalty point gain by 10% per level when working for agents in the Mining corporation division.
- Distribution Connections - Improves loyalty point gain by 10% per level when working for agents in the Distribution corporation division.
- Negotiation - Skill at agent negotiation. 5% additional pay per skill level for agent missions.
Although these skills are sounding to be very nice, on paper they should not be underestimated as having these skills will give you a major upper hand over someone who doesn't have them. So in that respect they should be very SP intensive to level up and in the realms of: x10, x11, x12 or even more!
*Please Note* To give those of you some idea how much these skills would be SP intensive heres a table to show you how much SP you would be investing.
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2156
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
In Summary Not only implementing a new skills branch will give the wider community; who really do treat Dust as a free to play and aren't looking to spend any RL money on it, an opportunity to be on the same level as everyone else running Faction Warfare (apart from SP boosters they could tie in with the Cybernetics branch but weGÇÖre not going to talk about them today) but it will also give those of us who are steadily approaching the GÇ£No skills to trainGÇ¥ some more skills that would be actually worth investing in.
All in all I believe having more skills in general is a be a good thing to have as it adds more depth, customisation and another level of specialisation to those dedicated players. I know that AURUM is the bread and butter for Dust which helps pay for it's funding but people will always buy SP boosters and the various GÇ£battle packsGÇ¥ and sales that are being so regularly released and IGÇÖll say it again; we don't need more AURUM based boosters... Anyway my rant is over!
What do you think about Social skills I have talked about?
Would you rather invest in SP or buy the boosters to increase your LP?
Do you agree or disagree with me?
Let me know in the comments below o7
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
228
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 23:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ccp isn't. Charity organization
the need money and this is one of the ways they get it
They could do muiych worse
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5651
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 23:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
I kind of have to agree with this. Eve online does have skill books that boost rewards for missions and I think loyalty points. Why not implement that here in DUST?
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
JP Acuna
war-legends elite
43
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, if you can buy the equivalent to the now existing AUR items with LP, then the utility and use of AUR is reduced, in a way.
When the player marketplace opens, AUR will be affected even more.
Yeah, it might seem like AUR is some kind of P2W currency, especially with SP boosters, but it's the only income CCP collects from Dust players, and the constant development of the game requires some money, no doubt.
But when the player market is on, maybe you'll be able to trade boosters just like any other item, so players who can and want to spend money in the game will open access to this stuff for players who only want to play for free, and it would be fair if they get more ISK for doing so.
Right now it might not look so good, but eventually boosters and AUR items will be accessible for everyone. (Hopefully) |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
247
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
They need to make money somehow.
Boosting LP gain is not pay to win. It's pay to grind less which seems reasonable to me. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
619
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 04:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Would I spend SP to gain LP quicker? Yea!
Currently need all the SP I can get in order to prepare for the new FW but afterword I would diffidently spec into these skills.
Scout Tactician
"You have been Scanned"
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5651
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 06:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have to agree that they do have to make money somehow. I can confirm that many of the Eve Online players don't like it when their subscription money is being used for a console game rather than focusing on further improving Eve Online.
But overall, it should have been better to just allow Dust players to buy vanity items with AUR instead. There are plenty of Dust players out there who would love to waste AUR on vanity items.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2159
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 07:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
What IGÇÖm trying to say here is that when the player market is released, people who are paying to get more LP with boosters; can technically make more ISK by selling the LP items on the player market, thus making it GÇ£Pay to WinGÇ¥ because we all know if you have wods of ISK you can afford to use the best gear all the time which helps massively!
(Faction gear is going to stomp on protogear BTW)
People will always buy SP Boosters when theirs run out and buy AURUM packages when new deals come out; e.g. The current deal on an AURUM purchase you get Omega Boosters. CCP have their money making ways sorted out fine and they are really good (sneaky) at marketing o7
If they have this in when the player market is released, people can easily control the sell and buy orders for LP items over people who are not using boosters, because they can afford to them sell cheap. (from the extra LP the booster is giving.)
Leave FW alone with boosters or the player market could be ****** beofre its even implemented!
Does anyone here get what IGÇÖm trying to say?
Have you any idea how competitive the player market is going to be? (Worse than PC!)
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5653
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have to agree with royal. The LP boosters can present a problem for the secondary market as they can negatively affect the buy-selling price of items traded between players for ISK. Again, aurum for vanity items would have been the better choice.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
|
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2160
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 16:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
IGÇÖm actually quite worried how this is going to affect the player market and when CCP release and remove the LP boosters, it might be too late! Sh*t will hit the fan and people are going to feel they have had their money robbed..... again.
ItGÇÖll be like the BPO removal QQing all over again but worse!
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5656
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 16:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm actually quite worried how this is going to affect the player market and when CCP release and remove the LP boosters, it might be too late! Sh*t will hit the fan and people are going to feel they have had their money robbed..... again.
ItGÇÖll be like the BPO removal QQing all over again but worse!
As long as CCP only removes the LP boosters from the market and let players burn through the current inventory they stocked up on, I don't see a problem with removing them later on. In fact, this will only increase their worth on the secondary market if CCP removes them.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5656
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 16:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Like I said, I seem to have a problem with the LP Boosters in how they can affect the secondary market. This will just devalue the worth of Loyalty Points which in turn will devalue the ISK worth of the item when it's sold on the secondary market.
Keep in mind that Eve Online's economy will be merging with the Dust economy here.
Again, vanity items should be the way to go. I can think of a bunch of vanity items that even players like Yelsha might like to spend their AUR refund on.
1. Permanent Paint Bucket for weapons, vehicles, and dropsuits.
2. Ability to purchase items from the Noble Exchange (Eve Online store) once Dust avatars can be dressed up.
3. Decorative Items for the MQ
4. The ability to expand the MQ
5. Ability to turn their AUR into AUR Tokens so they can trade them away for ISK (Eve has AUR tokens).
6. Implement the "Skill-Back Booster" that was suggested earlier by a fellow player: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread
That's just off the top of my head.
I can understand SP boosters and all, but LP boosters is something I don't honestly feel comfortable with.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
The-Errorist
Closed For Business
For All Mankind
367
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
It is NOT pay-to-win, its pay to get more stuff sooner, which is perfectly fine. |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
242
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 02:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
And plus if people are that considered with psw straight aur items would be a far larger threat
Bit then again if isk is winning go thread about pc
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5676
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 06:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:It is NOT pay-to-win, its pay to get more stuff sooner, which is perfectly fine.
Not right now, but it's threatening to become so with the introduction of LP boosters.
However, there is a way to effectively allow these AUR LP boosters without endangering the incoming secondary market...
...wait for it...
Introduce secondary market and allow boosters of all kinds to be tradable for ISK. Pay to win problem solved.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2166
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 07:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Introduce secondary market and allow boosters of all kinds to be tradable for ISK. Pay to win problem solved.
Just like PLEX in EVE, problem sorted.
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
146
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 08:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's a free to play game, they need *something* that you're willing to purchase repeatedly or the model fails to bring in the revenue that's made it so attractive to many companies. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1511
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 09:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
That "something" they need is a good Marketing department and a Dev team that is able to back them up.
Not P2W models.
Cheeseburgers.
|
Heavenly Daughter
the Aurum Grinder and Company
226
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 10:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think the introduction of ANOTHER booster is just despicable, nothing short of GREED, pure and simple.
REDUCE ALL BOOSTERS NOW BY 50%
. __
/.)\ Nade | Scan Attempt Prevented | 31 mill SP
\__/ 514 | NFP Prime League Winner| Longest Kill 588 Mtr
|
|
|
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
245
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 14:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Heavenly Daughter wrote:I think the introduction of ANOTHER booster is just despicable, nothing short of GREED, pure and simple.
REDUCE ALL BOOSTERS NOW BY 50%
Ikr, give me all your isk so I can divide it evenly amongst the newbs and then you can go boycot this game
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4526
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 14:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Here is the problem with the factional booster:
I fully accept an SP booster, as it's just time acceleration.
But I do not accept the current way the Factional booster works.
Let me give you an example from EVE manufacturing:
In order to be any decent, you need to get your manufacturing skills to level IV or V at least, so that you can sell the items you create a 10% profit margin, since that's the average price that everyone else puts on.
Now imagine that someone gets a skill that reduces mineral cost by 25%? And no one else has access to it?
He could set the price even lower, and the other people simply couldn't compete with him, as they would be losing money.
In a secondary market, LP boosters would behave much like that.
They should NOT increase LP payout, only increase standings faster, so a normal player gridning can achieve the same result.
Even better if they allow you to sell boosters on the secondary market, like PLEX in EVE.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2171
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 18:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bump
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
86
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 18:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am with Cat Merc on this one. The way factional boosts stand right now they do not promote good future economics (just like BPOs).
Boosters, in the end, should never give me a advantage over someone else and should only get me there faster. This factional booster will be pretty much a ISK booster once the open market comes into play and if we ever want to join markets with EVE that cannot exist.
|
MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
153
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 19:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:That "something" they need is a good Marketing department and a Dev team that is able to back them up.
Not P2W models.
I don't think you understand what 'pay to win' is. If you want a good example go look at tribes : ascend. |
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2173
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
As the 10th is fastly approaching, IGÇÖm getting very worried more and more how these LP Boosters are going to potentially ruin the secondary market even before its released [Insert sad face here]
Maybe I should stop thinking about it or try raise awareness via this thread - spread the word people, lets get this on the weekly updates thread.
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2178
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 05:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Updated with a TL;DR as IGÇÖm sure most people saw the wall of text and didn't read it :)
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
576
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 06:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
I read your post but the arguments were unconvincing.
-1.
"Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)"
GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
|
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2178
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 06:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:I read your post but the arguments were unconvincing.
-1.
Then you obviously have no idea how the player market is going to work or you really don't care...
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
|
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1567
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 07:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
If you're smart you won't buy boosters until you have gotten to a good rank...seeing as how you get so much more lp at the higher ranks.
I don't have a problem really, because if you are good at winning you will be getting about 5x as much lp anyways. People with boosters that lose will only get a bit more.
So my argument against you is this: Players that protostomp in FW to win will be much more unfair than players using boosters who win an average amount (about 50/50).
Keep in mind the numbers up ahead are just for ease of use, and don't represent actual values
Let's say protostompers win 90% of matches and normal players win 50% of them. at 5k lp per match in 10 battles that's 46k lp (45k + 1k) for the stompers and 30k (25k + 5k) for the average player (at level 10 loyalty). That's 16k more for a stomper. An average player with a booster would be 37.5k, so an 8.5k difference.
Now we look at an average player without a booster (30k) vs with one (37.5k). Only a 7.5k difference compared to 16k difference. You can clearly see that just by protostomping, you're earning more than double what an average player would earn in extra with a booster.
Not to mention how crazy the gains would be for a protostomper with a booster (57.5k) vs an average player without one (30k). That's almost DOUBLE right there. Winning seems to be much more effective.
Links:
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos!
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |