Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
160
   |
Posted - 2013.12.05 22:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since we are being so constructive... Some groundwork needs to be defined. First off there is a difference between a "light suit" and a "scout suit" and for that matter "pilot suit" should be included in this discussion. Additionally a clear understanding of the difference between a role bonus and a racial bonus is needed.
So to start off, the light suit. The light suit receives no bonuses (a mistake imo, as it should just receive its racial bonus). It is the model from whence all other derivatives are derived from. What do I mean by that? Well for medium suits you have:
Medium Suit ===> Assault Suit or Logistics Suit or some other future suits...
The basic medium suit skill is needed before you can move on to a more specialized variant like the Assault or the Logi. Similarly for the Scout you must first learn the light suit skill:
Light Suit ===> Scout Suit or Pilot Suit or some other future suits...
Why is this most obvious distinction being pointed out? Because currently if you ask 10 different people what a Scout suit is supposed to do, you will get 10 different answers BECAUSE they are not taking this idea of specialization for the light suit into account.
Next the distinction between a racial bonus and a role bonus. A racial bonus is one that is applied to a suit because its particular race favors it. So for Minmatar this would be a melee damage bonus for example because they favor strength and hand-to-hand combat with simple weapons. A role bonus is a bonus that is there because that is the specialization for which that suit was designed to do. For a piloting suit that could be a reduction in active vehicle module cooldown times. It's there to make the suit better at that one thing than any other suit (in this case piloting a vehicle).
So now that we have defined those two things, we can move forward with a common ground of understanding.
So first let's go over some racial profiling...
Minmatar Light Suit Skill = +5% melee damage bonus per level
Galente Light Suit Skill = +10% bonus to dropsuit scan radius per level (should really be a shotgun bonus)
Caldari Light Suit SKill = currently not defined, i would suggest a possible sniper rifle bonus
Amarr Light Suit Skill = currently not defined, I would suggest a scrambler pistol bonus
Next let's go over role bonuses:
basic no-nothing light suit = nothing (should at least get the racial bonuses from above)
Scout Suit Skill = 5% reduction to scan profile per level
Pilot Suit Skill = (this is still rumored) +10% reduction in active vehicle module cooldown time per level
No the idea is that if you are a Minmatar Pilot you combine the Minmatar racial bonus for the light suit with the role bonus for the Pilot Suit to get = +5% melee damage bonus per level; +10% reduction in active vehicle module cooldown time per level
So using that as a guide I believe what players want are more light suit specializations. For instance, everyone seems to think that there should be a "Slayer" class for lgiht suits, so for that role maybe:
Slayer Suit Skill = 10% per level reduction to CPU and PG requirements of all biotics
Which results in a (theoretical) Amarr Slayer getting = {some scrambler pistol bonus}; 10% per level reduction to CPU and PG requirements of all biotics
Another role that seems to be missing is a more stealthy or cloaky role. Unfortunately this one would have to wait until a cloaking mechanic came out for the game but I would theorize something like:
Covert Operations Suit Skill = Ability to fit and operate active camouflage device. (or call it a personal cloaking device)
So now you get a (theoretical) Caldari Covert Ops getting = {some sniper rifle bonus}; Ability to fit and operate active camouflage device.
As you can see the ideas and possibilities are there, it just takes CCP to finally flesh out and define the roles and role bonuses better to make it work right.
|
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
168
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 16:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Thanks for taking the time to write, guys.
Please keep in mind, though, like the first post says: this is not a wishlist thread.
This is a "what is broken about current mechanics for scout" thread.
Sorry. So I'll try discussing some of what is wrong currently:
The idea of a Light Suit is that you are giving up a lot of the heavier equipment and weapons in order to become cheaper and more mobile than a Medium Suit. Additionally, the idea of a Scout Suit is that it be able to infiltrate and return intelligence.
Honestly, prior to playing DUST 514, my assumption for a Light Suit is that it wouldn't be able to use and of the "light" weapons (AR, shotgun, sniper rifle, scrambler rifle, mass driver, plasma cannon, swarm launcher, etc.) and be limited to only a sidearm weapon. Another limitation would have been to only have one weapon choice, but they have two, light and sidearm, as well as a grenade slot. This widened my expectations for Light Suits from the get go.
So what really differentiates a Light Suit from a Medium Suit? the base stats are a little different, but the major difference is that the Light Suit has significantly less High and Low Power Slots. It has the same number of Equipment slots (one) where Heavy Suits have none and only Logistics Suits get more than one as that is their role (and they give up a weapon choice for that which as I pointed out above, the Light Suit does not).
So like in EVE, the major difference between ship categories is the number of module slots available to each. Smaller ships have a lot less, medium ships have more, and heavy ships have the most. Equivalently, smaller ships are less expensive to loose than the larger ones, and accordingly Light Suits cost less than Medium and Heavy Suits.
So as stated above, a lighter suit gives up the space and weight of the additional modules to gain mobility (and incidentally become cheaper to buy and operate as well). By "operate" I mean it's also less skill points to get into as evidenced by the SP multipliers on the dropsuit skills. This is where the first problem comes into being. With the current speed settings for DUST dropsuits, a Medium Suit can easily keep up with a Light Suit taking away one of the major reasons for being in a Light Suit to begin with. Additionally, mobility would include things like how long you can maintain a sprint for as well as how many times you can jump before being exhausted. But all suits, no matter the size seem to start with almost the same amount of Stamina! In EVE, capacitor would be the only "equivalent' and there, the larger the ship, the more capacitor capacity. So maybe larger suits should have more Stamina (they have to carry all that extra crap on those long hikes) however it should "cost" them more stamina per second to run or jump than a Light Suit.
However the reason that CCP would be hesitant to allow the Scout Suit to run so fast is because once maxed out in skill and with the right combination of biotics it becomes abusive. So the counter would be to nerf the speed of the heavier suits, however it then becomes frustrating for them to try to run anywhere as many of the maps are too huge. So a balance act is needed here.
So to sum up the issues with the Basic Light Suit:
- The Light Suit doesn't run significantly faster than the Medium Suit does.
- The Light Suit should cost less in Stamina per second to run and jump than heavier suits.
Now onward to the Scout Suits. The purpose of a 'scout' is to infiltrate and return intelligence. So to accomplish this, a scout needs to have a smaller signature (or be invisible) and have a way to spot others without being spotted themselves. Currently, Scouts enjoy a 16m scan radius while other suits only get 10m. While this may not seem great, it would be significant if it weren't for the latest addition to the game, the scanner. Currently, the scan profile of a scout suit is not significantly smaller than that of Medium Suit, however they do get a 5% bonus per level to reduce it, so at level 5 that is 25% reduction to scan profile. This results in a Scout Suit being 32.5% smaller in profile than a Medium Suit (before modules, but both classes of suits could be using those). At face value this seems appropriate. The problem is that anyone in any suit (with an equipment slot) can pick up a scanner and scan out the Scout whit a high enough skill and a good enough scanner. This makes it impossible for the Scout to do it's first mission: infiltrate.
So the best solution is to do something similar to how EVE makes locking time based upon signature size of the the locking ship as well as the signature size of the ship being locked. A larger ship take longer to lock onto a smaller ship, than if a smaller ship is locking onto a similarly sized ship. So maybe modify the scan result due to using a scanner with the size of the scan profile of the suit doing the scanning. This results in Light Suits being able to scan out other Light Suits and larger; Medium Suits being able to scan out other Medium Suits and larger (missing many of the Scouts); Heavy Suits (Commandos only) being able to scan out other Heavy Suits and larger; and, Vehicles (aha! you say) being able to scan out other Vehicles and larger. This encourages similar size opponents to engage similarly (or larger) sized opponents. So a ratio of scanner profile {ScanXmit} to that of the one being scanned {ScanRcv} needs to be implemented: {ScanRcv}/{ScanXmit} or similar.
So to sum up the issues with the Scout Suit:
- The Scout Suit may need to have its scan range tweaked to be higher still. (Possibly make the Galente Scout bonus a role bonus for all Scouts.)
- All scanning needs to include a ratio of the Scan Profile of the one being scanned as compared to the Scan Profile of the one doing the scanning.
|