DUST Search - Consequences of No Player Market and No ISK payout in FW

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

I posted this in the Dev Blog thread but think it needs to be mentioned here...

The lack of an ISK payout in FW in combination with no player market will lead to either an AFK nightmare in pubs or FW. I'm guessing in pubs at first, but it'll depend on how much LP is given per match vs the cost of goods in the LP store. THIS is so painfully obvious that my 7 year old daughter would predict it given the scenario.

In Eve players have the ability to do other things to earn ISK to support their PvP habit. OR they are in corps that are involved in other ISK generating ventures and help their pilots with ship replacement programs.

The lack of foresight on this issue boggles my mind. And I know for a FACT that the CPM brought it up to CCP.

CCP wants to have an ISK sink but I argue that most players with large amounts of ISK fall into this category:

1) The top 1% of Dust that's been successful in PC
2) Players that AFK
3) Players that run BPOs nonstop

You can't accumulate large amounts of ISK running a 2.0 KDR with ADV gear in pubs. In fact the mechanics now reward those that choose to do less to increase their profit margins.

If you can't profit more going 10-5 with 1500 WP in a pub match than a dude who goes 0-0 with 0 WP then the system is broken.

I have raised this issue before about broken ISK payouts and incentives, but I firmly believe that the new FW will only exacerbate the issue.

I agree that this can be a problem. I disagree with awarding BOTH ISK and LP. Instead the solution should be adding the market where people in FW can sell the items that they get from FW to people that don't do FW. Then if a rifle costs 1000 LP to get and 1 LP = 1000 ISK, that rifle sells for 1,000,000 ISK on the open market. Bingo, FW guy gets his ISK and supplies demand to the non-FW players.

Unfortunately, CCP is implementing changes piecemeal and not understanding how this causes unintended side-effects.

Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.


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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2108	Posted - 2013.12.03 18:35:00 - [1] - Quote I posted this in the Dev Blog thread but think it needs to be mentioned here... The lack of an ISK payout in FW in combination with no player market will lead to either an AFK nightmare in pubs or FW. I'm guessing in pubs at first, but it'll depend on how much LP is given per match vs the cost of goods in the LP store. THIS is so painfully obvious that my 7 year old daughter would predict it given the scenario. In Eve players have the ability to do other things to earn ISK to support their PvP habit. OR they are in corps that are involved in other ISK generating ventures and help their pilots with ship replacement programs. The lack of foresight on this issue boggles my mind. And I know for a FACT that the CPM brought it up to CCP. CCP wants to have an ISK sink but I argue that most players with large amounts of ISK fall into this category: 1) The top 1% of Dust that's been successful in PC 2) Players that AFK 3) Players that run BPOs nonstop You can't accumulate large amounts of ISK running a 2.0 KDR with ADV gear in pubs. In fact the mechanics now reward those that choose to do less to increase their profit margins. If you can't profit more going 10-5 with 1500 WP in a pub match than a dude who goes 0-0 with 0 WP then the system is broken. I have raised this issue before about broken ISK payouts and incentives, but I firmly believe that the new FW will only exacerbate the issue. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2113	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:41:00 - [2] - Quote calisk galern wrote: how do you afk in FW, they can spawn and kill you and if your not around they will suffer no consequences. aside from that if your team loses ( very likely with players afking) then you get far less LP, and to take that one step further you gain no isk from doing it either. it would be more profitable to just not be in FW when you afk. Well I consider sitting in the redline hiding, not trying to win AFK. But as my post says, I think it will spill over into the pub matches more than FW. But it depends on the LP item cost versus LP earned in battle. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2113	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:46:00 - [3] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: Dont Forget that you get kicked if you afk Read the above post. If you are going 0-1 with 50 WPs you might as well be AFK Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2117	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:59:00 - [4] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I posted this in the Dev Blog thread but think it needs to be mentioned here... The lack of an ISK payout in FW in combination with no player market will lead to either an AFK nightmare in pubs or FW. I'm guessing in pubs at first, but it'll depend on how much LP is given per match vs the cost of goods in the LP store. THIS is so painfully obvious that my 7 year old daughter would predict it given the scenario. In Eve players have the ability to do other things to earn ISK to support their PvP habit. OR they are in corps that are involved in other ISK generating ventures and help their pilots with ship replacement programs. The lack of foresight on this issue boggles my mind. And I know for a FACT that the CPM brought it up to CCP. CCP wants to have an ISK sink but I argue that most players with large amounts of ISK fall into this category: 1) The top 1% of Dust that's been successful in PC 2) Players that AFK 3) Players that run BPOs nonstop You can't accumulate large amounts of ISK running a 2.0 KDR with ADV gear in pubs. In fact the mechanics now reward those that choose to do less to increase their profit margins. If you can't profit more going 10-5 with 1500 WP in a pub match than a dude who goes 0-0 with 0 WP then the system is broken. I have raised this issue before about broken ISK payouts and incentives, but I firmly believe that the new FW will only exacerbate the issue. I agree that this can be a problem. I disagree with awarding BOTH ISK and LP. Instead the solution should be adding the market where people in FW can sell the items that they get from FW to people that don't do FW. Then if a rifle costs 1000 LP to get and 1 LP = 1000 ISK, that rifle sells for 1,000,000 ISK on the open market. Bingo, FW guy gets his ISK and supplies demand to the non-FW players. Unfortunately, CCP is implementing changes piecemeal and not understanding how this causes unintended side-effects. I've seen this arguement. If people are using FW as an ISK sink then where will they get the money to buy a 1,000,000 ISK rifle? I don't think the market is going to be as vibrant as people imagine. Where are people going to use this gear? Will they use a million ISK rifle in FW, in PC? It's doubtful Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2117	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:06:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not sure if people are understanding the implications of team killing here with their suggestions. Are you going to go team kill the redline snipers? What's the real difference between AFK and a redline sniper? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2117	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:08:00 - [6] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: The only one you missed OP is that even more stomping will happen in pubs as people make their ISK to feed going after LP - Not all of us have BPO's People aren't stomping in pubs to make ISK. The people who are at the bottom of the list going 0-0 with 0 WPs are going after ISK. The people stomping are trying to actual participate in this FPS. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.