DUST Search - Let's talk dust: let's be honest about TTK.

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Sinboto Simmons wrote:

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Sinboto Simmons wrote:

It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it?

Opinions below.

Again, please READ what im about to say CAREFULLY, i wont repeat it YET again.
What gives the impression these weapons are OP is their BROKEN MECHANICS. NOT THEIR DPS.
DPS is not a big deal if you cant connect EVERY SINGLE BULLET.

GÖªAR's Hit at very long ranges specially considering they are Blaster tech:
They need SERIOUS RANGE NERF (down to 35 mts Optimal)
They need DISPERSION and Kick mechanics that avoid shooting more than 10 bullets in a row without penalty.

GÖªSCR Hits very hard at Close range when this its not their intended role:
They need a CQ nerf,75% damage only at CQ and a Nerf to their Hip Fire
Remove the Glitch that denies the full penalty of the Overheat mechanic
Increase The Heat buildup for consecutive shots and INCREASE the SCR cooldown

With this changes and without EVEN touching their Damage the weapons become viable but balanced options.

Damage mods are equal to Shield extenders in effectiveness.
I've already made the math.
Its Proficiency that needs to go, or get nerfed to +1% per level. Heh....

You do realize I know the rifles are broken already correct, and the reason for it?

Not only that but the 'high and mighty: I can't believe you're such an idiot' attitude isn't necessary.

Oh and damage mods are breaking this game, they're so powerful certain weapons are balanced with them in mind, Mass drivers, Snipers, and Lazor rifles ain't doing so hot not because players have had proficiency in them in the past: It's because the bonus to damage from proficiency has been amplified by stacks of damage mods.

In order for this game to be even close to balanced the damage mods need to be restricted or removed if you want to balance proficiency along with it fine but they can't stay as they are.

I was not acting high and mighty.. i was being straight. i've mentioned this quite a few times already...

:/

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Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2613	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:27:00 - [1] - Quote It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it? Opinions below. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8214	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:29:00 - [2] - Quote Ryfle, y u no kik? ISK / Vids / Stream
Cosgar ParagonX 8234	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:31:00 - [3] - Quote Let's put it this way. When's the last time anyone complained about sidearms, mass drivers, HMGs, lasers, shotguns, or anything else that wasn't a standard AR or ScR? Damage mods, I don't really have a problem with them aside from possibly making them low slot items, but the proficeincy skill has to be changed from raw DPS to something interesting depending on the weapon like extra zoom or something. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:31:00 - [4] - Quote stack-able damage mods have a lot to do with it (who needs a proto gun when i can stack 3 proto damage mods and get better range/accuracy/damage due to less recoil from the lower rate of fire, at a cheaper cost) but the fixing of the hit detection mixed with a 10% passive buff to all weapons just puts the cherry on top
Kane Fyea 2308	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:37:00 - [5] - Quote 1. I think the proficiency skill should be replaced with another bonus 2. I think the AR needs more kick and dispersion. Also maybe a small damage nerf. 3. I think the ScR needs a little less damage and maybe a RoF nerf. 4. I think the AScR needs to overheat in the first clip if you shoot most of the clip without stopping. 5. Possibly a small nerf to damage mods.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 392	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:38:00 - [6] - Quote TTK is probably just due to the rifles. I dropped both complex damage mods from my Gallente Logi w/ burst AR setup (that I had well before Gal Logis became FotM or OP/ whatever) , and hardly noticed any difference aside from a cheaper cost.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 118	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:40:00 - [7] - Quote Its the lack of any dispersion at all when aiming down sights on assault rifles meaning pinpoint accuracy no matter the range, this combined with the lack of kick until ~30 shots have been fired means you have a semi-automatic sniper rifle that kills anything that gets in front of it from 0m-80m because of its insane dps and the fact that absolutely every single bullet hits. Give it more dispersion (plain and simple give it dispersion when ADS) and you'd start to see a weapon that absolutely melts people at 20-40m, but isn't really that great at fighting outside that range because less than 1/4 of its shots are hitting (and those that do have a damage penalty) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Watch this it demonstrates the major issue with AR's (hint the is damage is only a tiny portion of the problem).
Cosgar ParagonX 8235	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:45:00 - [8] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: 1. I think the proficiency skill should be replaced with another bonus 2. I think the AR needs more kick and dispersion. Also maybe a small damage nerf. 3. I think the ScR needs a little less damage and maybe a RoF nerf. 4. I think the AScR needs to overheat in the first clip if you shoot most of the clip without stopping. 5. Possibly a small nerf to damage mods. How damage is applied, tanking and damage profiles are in desperate need of a rework. First off, the range profile system for all weapons has to be one of the worst design choices I've seen since that game system made by the Swedish mafia. Instead, give plasma and EM a range hard cap, but the ability to deal consistent damage at all ranges and give rail and solid ammo dropoff. Plasma should be the most middle of the road, dealing equal damage to both shields and armor, EM's effectiveness against armor should be lowered while rail can stay about the same. (pending how effective the rail rifle works) I'm not saying this should be the correct way to change the system, but just a suggestion. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2694	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:46:00 - [9] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it? Opinions below. Again, please READ what im about to say CAREFULLY, i wont repeat it YET again. What gives the impression these weapons are OP is their BROKEN MECHANICS. NOT THEIR DPS. DPS is not a big deal if you cant connect EVERY SINGLE BULLET. GÖªAR's Hit at very long ranges specially considering they are Blaster tech: They need SERIOUS RANGE NERF (down to 35 mts Optimal) They need DISPERSION and Kick mechanics that avoid shooting more than 10 bullets in a row without penalty. GÖªSCR Hits very hard at Close range when this its not their intended role: They need a CQ nerf,75% damage only at CQ and a Nerf to their Hip Fire Remove the Glitch that denies the full penalty of the Overheat mechanic Increase The Heat buildup for consecutive shots and INCREASE the SCR cooldown With this changes and without EVEN touching their Damage the weapons become viable but balanced options. Damage mods are equal to Shield extenders in effectiveness. I've already made the math. Its Proficiency that needs to go, or get nerfed to +1% per level. Heh.... Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5516	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:48:00 - [10] - Quote It's the hit detection in my opinion. It's so good that the TTK has reduced drastically. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.

xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 1175	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:48:00 - [11] - Quote I really don't get it. Yes, I do die more, but it's just because of snipers! Lesser TTK means you just have to be careful, while your opponent has the opportunity to kill you even if he has much lower SP count. Imo, here on Dust you shouldn't be rewarded if you grind till PRO level, but if you're actually "good". And no, by "good" I don't absolutely mean a player who place three nanohives under his feet and start launching core locus grenades. Time to kill is almost perfect, and it's not because of damage mods. It's mainly because of non existent kick and dispersion on Assault Rifles, but maybe this is by design (see weapon ranges in 1.7): a medium-short range weapons should have little to no recoil. . __ `/.)\ spamming these = you have no opinion in anything Dust 514 related` \ __ /
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2099	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:49:00 - [12] - Quote i was using my laser rifle and then noticed i was actually just aiming down the sight of my AR
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 119	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:51:00 - [13] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it? Opinions below. Again, please READ what im about to say CAREFULLY, i wont repeat it YET again. What gives the impression these weapons are OP is their BROKEN MECHANICS. NOT THEIR DPS. DPS is not a big deal if you cant connect EVERY SINGLE BULLET. GÖªAR's Hit at very long ranges specially considering they are Blaster tech: They need SERIOUS RANGE NERF (down to 35 mts Optimal) They need DISPERSION and Kick mechanics that avoid shooting more than 10 bullets in a row without penalty. GÖªSCR Hits very hard at Close range when this its not their intended role: They need a CQ nerf,75% damage only at CQ and a Nerf to their Hip Fire Remove the Glitch that denies the full penalty of the Overheat mechanic Increase The Heat buildup for consecutive shots and INCREASE the SCR cooldown With this changes and without EVEN touching their Damage the weapons become viable but balanced options. Damage mods are equal to Shield extenders in effectiveness. I've already made the math. Its Proficiency that needs to go, or get nerfed to +1% per level. Heh.... Scrambler rifles are actually prettymuch fine at close range being based off of pulse laser technology (ie, the 'short range' lasers). Plain and simple the issue across well, all rifles (excepting maybe the laser) is that there is either no, or next to no dispersion when aiming down sights. It is impossible for your shots to miss,combined with strong aim assist and in many cases absurd damage we begin to see a real problem. Now if the gallente assault rifle started missing 1/4 to 1/2 of its shots at 40-50m the TTK wouldn't be as big of a problem and you'd start to see more weapon diversity (like a group of laser rifles that plain and simple don't let assault rifles get that close). Maken Tosch wrote: It's the hit detection in my opinion. It's so good that the TTK has reduced drastically. Good hit detection is a good thing, in fact perfect hit detection would be wonderful.
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 308	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:52:00 - [14] - Quote actually I think all that needs to be done is nerf the damage of ALL the handheld weapons, so that the time to kill is long all around. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
Cosgar ParagonX 8236	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:53:00 - [15] - Quote Mac Dac wrote: actually I think all that needs to be done is nerf the damage of ALL the handheld weapons, so that the time to kill is long all around. What about alpha damage based weapons with massive drawbacks that are already suffering? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2613	Posted - 2013.12.03 04:59:00 - [16] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it? Opinions below. Again, please READ what im about to say CAREFULLY, i wont repeat it YET again. What gives the impression these weapons are OP is their BROKEN MECHANICS. NOT THEIR DPS. DPS is not a big deal if you cant connect EVERY SINGLE BULLET. GÖªAR's Hit at very long ranges specially considering they are Blaster tech: They need SERIOUS RANGE NERF (down to 35 mts Optimal) They need DISPERSION and Kick mechanics that avoid shooting more than 10 bullets in a row without penalty. GÖªSCR Hits very hard at Close range when this its not their intended role: They need a CQ nerf,75% damage only at CQ and a Nerf to their Hip Fire Remove the Glitch that denies the full penalty of the Overheat mechanic Increase The Heat buildup for consecutive shots and INCREASE the SCR cooldown With this changes and without EVEN touching their Damage the weapons become viable but balanced options. Damage mods are equal to Shield extenders in effectiveness. I've already made the math. Its Proficiency that needs to go, or get nerfed to +1% per level. Heh.... You do realize I know the rifles are broken already correct, and the reason for it? Not only that but the 'high and mighty: I can't believe you're such an idiot' attitude isn't necessary. Oh and damage mods are breaking this game, they're so powerful certain weapons are balanced with them in mind, Mass drivers, Snipers, and Lazor rifles ain't doing so hot not because players have had proficiency in them in the past: It's because the bonus to damage from proficiency has been amplified by stacks of damage mods. In order for this game to be even close to balanced the damage mods need to be restricted or removed if you want to balance proficiency along with it fine but they can't stay as they are. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 65	Posted - 2013.12.03 05:06:00 - [17] - Quote The rifles themselves need to be adjusted for the damage increase from the mods. Main issue being, the more damage you stack on a weapon the better its effective range. The damage increase is by a percentage meaning it can go that much farther and retain normal damage rates. Time to kill is fine, just need to balance ranges and possibly cqc fire from the scrambler. Dedicated scout. Caldari loyalist. Pistol supremacy.
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 132	Posted - 2013.12.03 05:12:00 - [18] - Quote It's the damn hitscan damage mod setups, in no other game is full auto "elite". Full auto in halo, you're a scrub with no gun game that can't track for **** or time shots. This game, people think they rock with the sticky aim scrub guns. Get a GLU or SCR and don't spam them in CQC abusing an inherent design flaw. They need to make harder to use guns more beneficial and deadly, while making hit scan easy to use yet looked down upon. Everyone knows the SCR needs a rework on hipfire, but not until AR's become the red headed step child they once were(hard capped). Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2697	Posted - 2013.12.03 05:15:00 - [19] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it? Opinions below. Again, please READ what im about to say CAREFULLY, i wont repeat it YET again. What gives the impression these weapons are OP is their BROKEN MECHANICS. NOT THEIR DPS. DPS is not a big deal if you cant connect EVERY SINGLE BULLET. GÖªAR's Hit at very long ranges specially considering they are Blaster tech: They need SERIOUS RANGE NERF (down to 35 mts Optimal) They need DISPERSION and Kick mechanics that avoid shooting more than 10 bullets in a row without penalty. GÖªSCR Hits very hard at Close range when this its not their intended role: They need a CQ nerf,75% damage only at CQ and a Nerf to their Hip Fire Remove the Glitch that denies the full penalty of the Overheat mechanic Increase The Heat buildup for consecutive shots and INCREASE the SCR cooldown With this changes and without EVEN touching their Damage the weapons become viable but balanced options. Damage mods are equal to Shield extenders in effectiveness. I've already made the math. Its Proficiency that needs to go, or get nerfed to +1% per level. Heh.... You do realize I know the rifles are broken already correct, and the reason for it? Not only that but the 'high and mighty: I can't believe you're such an idiot' attitude isn't necessary. Oh and damage mods are breaking this game, they're so powerful certain weapons are balanced with them in mind, Mass drivers, Snipers, and Lazor rifles ain't doing so hot not because players have had proficiency in them in the past: It's because the bonus to damage from proficiency has been amplified by stacks of damage mods. In order for this game to be even close to balanced the damage mods need to be restricted or removed if you want to balance proficiency along with it fine but they can't stay as they are. I was not acting high and mighty.. i was being straight. i've mentioned this quite a few times already... :/ Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 182	Posted - 2013.12.03 05:16:00 - [20] - Quote this is my point of a view on people who cry about damage mods or think they need changes. 1. You dont have them 2. You cant fit them on your fav fit 3. Putting them on as low slot will only BUFF shield tanking when they are meant for armor builds. armor needs to to deal with shield tanking. As we a bruts from what shield tankers called us. Karma got you in the butt/ 4. Maybe your the problem with your aim even with the "aim assist" on getting hits. Other then that rant. The Proficiency is plays a BIG part in new players getting there *** kicked. You must get your gun to lvl 5 before you unlock it. The same goes for EvE. Yet I personally do not believe EvE skill tree should be build on this subject. New players need the proficiency before then. I say the Lvl of you gun SHOULD unlock the lvl of proficiency . Examaple. I used AR because everyone loves this things -_- Lvl 1 AR unlocks lvl 1 Prof lvlv2 AR unlocks lvl 2 Prof Ect. The SP for the Prof SHOULDN'T be changed just on how you unlock them. This would give players the option to spec into them at there own will. Giving them a better chance. You could change the Prof of Ar and ScR due to there high accuracy and damage they dont need them BUT I do not think it would be the right thing to do. There might be an uprising for a respec. I do say alot of guns dont need the prof of damage. I think the HMG should be able to keep there Prof the way it is due to PC matchs and moving so slow. If the fix the HMG so it works correctly in CQC and not like a laser I could see changing the HMG prof. Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns please :D

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2614	Posted - 2013.12.03 05:17:00 - [21] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: It's the rifles and damage mods isn't it? Opinions below. Again, please READ what im about to say CAREFULLY, i wont repeat it YET again. What gives the impression these weapons are OP is their BROKEN MECHANICS. NOT THEIR DPS. DPS is not a big deal if you cant connect EVERY SINGLE BULLET. GÖªAR's Hit at very long ranges specially considering they are Blaster tech: They need SERIOUS RANGE NERF (down to 35 mts Optimal) They need DISPERSION and Kick mechanics that avoid shooting more than 10 bullets in a row without penalty. GÖªSCR Hits very hard at Close range when this its not their intended role: They need a CQ nerf,75% damage only at CQ and a Nerf to their Hip Fire Remove the Glitch that denies the full penalty of the Overheat mechanic Increase The Heat buildup for consecutive shots and INCREASE the SCR cooldown With this changes and without EVEN touching their Damage the weapons become viable but balanced options. Damage mods are equal to Shield extenders in effectiveness. I've already made the math. Its Proficiency that needs to go, or get nerfed to +1% per level. Heh.... You do realize I know the rifles are broken already correct, and the reason for it? Not only that but the 'high and mighty: I can't believe you're such an idiot' attitude isn't necessary. Oh and damage mods are breaking this game, they're so powerful certain weapons are balanced with them in mind, Mass drivers, Snipers, and Lazor rifles ain't doing so hot not because players have had proficiency in them in the past: It's because the bonus to damage from proficiency has been amplified by stacks of damage mods. In order for this game to be even close to balanced the damage mods need to be restricted or removed if you want to balance proficiency along with it fine but they can't stay as they are. I was not acting high and mighty.. i was being straight. i've mentioned this quite a few times already... :/ Sorry bud, that's how you came off. Remember your tone doesn't come through the keyboard. :P Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2697	Posted - 2013.12.03 05:17:00 - [22] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Sorry bud, that's how you came off. Remember your tone doesn't come through the keyboard. :P ok.. u.u Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 386	Posted - 2013.12.03 06:57:00 - [23] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: It's the hit detection in my opinion. It's so good that the TTK has reduced drastically. That's not a bad thing. Just need to recalibrate the damage outputs and some weapon stats. I think King is definitely on the right track with his proposals.


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