DUST Search - The Solution To Prototype Stomping

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

Vinsarrow wrote:

For the very last time people stop with your going on about proto stomping & your insane nonesense ways to fix it. This is the 1 easy, fast, & clear solution so support it if you want proto stomping to finally be fixed....

All CCP has to do is this, those with higher Lifetime SP wiil be facing only people with the same high range of Lifetime SP. Example a person with 15 million Lifetime SP will only be facing people with 17 million & 13 million Lifetime SP range. People with low lifetime SP will only be facing people with low Lifetime SP. Example a person has 5 million Lifetime SP then they'll only be facing people with the range of 7 million & 3 million Lifetime SP.

Veterans with Veterans - Newbies with Newbies

With the exception of squads & PC matches, then the system can match varying similiar people with similiar Lifetime SP range, in other words the more squads that are full the more the Lifetime SP will change to fit a general Lifetime SP range for all those playing.

Example Amarr side has 2 Squads, Squad A is full proto & they're lifetime SP is generally around 10 million, Squad B has 1 proto user, 3 moderate people running adavanced gear like GEK's lifetime SP ranging 5 - 2 million, with 2 newbies in it's squad - The Minmitar side has 1 full squad & 1 half full squad, Squad A is all moderate people running Advanced gear, Squad B (the half filled squad) has 1 proto & 2 newbies.

Scotty The AI will be encripted with mathmatical calculation gathering each & everyone's SP coming to a general Lifetime SP range of say 6 million+ (for the example above) be around the general range then Scotty will only allow "The randoms or Extra" people entering the match only to be within the priamaters of 6 million. There only people with 8 - 6 - 4 million Lifetime SP range can get in on that match.

This will mean a little longer match loading & if CCP brings back The War Room to matches besides Factional & PC then Scotty can do his calculations while "Waiting for deployment" & at The War Room....

So what do you do late at night when the number of people queuing for battle won't allow for that system to work?

What do you do when players figure out where the optimal "break point" is for the lifetime skill point thingy is and make sure that squads total lifetime SP doesn't exceed that number when putting squads together so taht they can still WTFPWN newbs?

In the end you cannot account for everything and players are what break the system. So design a system that encourages players to get better, not worse. By putting same skill players against each other, they learn a hell of a lot less than if they are against a player that is higher skill than they are. Why the hell do you think that most jobs pair a newbie up with a veteran for mentoring?


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Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:33:00 - [1] - Quote For the very last time people stop with your going on about proto stomping & your insane nonesense ways to fix it. This is the 1 easy, fast, & clear solution so support it if you want proto stomping to finally be fixed.... All CCP has to do is this, those with higher Lifetime SP wiil be facing only people with the same high range of Lifetime SP. Example a person with 15 million Lifetime SP will only be facing people with 17 million & 13 million Lifetime SP range. People with low lifetime SP will only be facing people with low Lifetime SP. Example a person has 5 million Lifetime SP then they'll only be facing people with the range of 7 million & 3 million Lifetime SP. Veterans with Veterans - Newbies with Newbies With the exception of squads & PC matches, then the system can match varying similiar people with similiar Lifetime SP range, in other words the more squads that are full the more the Lifetime SP will change to fit a general Lifetime SP range for all those playing. Example Amarr side has 2 Squads, Squad A is full proto & they're lifetime SP is generally around 10 million, Squad B has 1 proto user, 3 moderate people running adavanced gear like GEK's lifetime SP ranging 5 - 2 million, with 2 newbies in it's squad - The Minmitar side has 1 full squad & 1 half full squad, Squad A is all moderate people running Advanced gear, Squad B (the half filled squad) has 1 proto & 2 newbies. Scotty The AI will be encripted with mathmatical calculation gathering each & everyone's SP coming to a general Lifetime SP range of say 6 million+ (for the example above) be around the general range then Scotty will only allow "The randoms or Extra" people entering the match only to be within the priamaters of 6 million. There only people with 8 - 6 - 4 million Lifetime SP range can get in on that match. This will mean a little longer match loading & if CCP brings back The War Room to matches besides Factional & PC then Scotty can do his calculations while "Waiting for deployment" & at The War Room....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:36:00 - [2] - Quote You obviously did not read anything since you replied in under 10 seconds to my post 1st coming up
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:51:00 - [3] - Quote Their is a clear line always between Elite & Newbies. If I made a brand new character with jsut 250k ISK & I set myself up with just what I have I gurrantee once I go in the academy I will have 1st place with ATLEAST 20+ kills/ Less then or equal to 5 deaths & WP at 2000+ or near at 2000 by myself ALONE. People must discern between the Elite & The Newbies.... This proto stomp fix system will just be their & try to make it fair. That way newbies or just bad players can't yell "OP PROTO STOMP" anymore. At that point they'll just be a newbie &/or bad player that just got off COD, saw a free to play game & decided to play it, expecting to just be able to shoot, run head 1st into enemy forces & expect to win with zero tactics....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:57:00 - [4] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: How many people in this game have over 30 mil SP? Betting not enough to ever be online at the same time to fill 32 slots. Well at that point haven't you already kinda beaten the game....? Also you forget what I said about squads, you can get in 1 IF your in a squad. This would would support the new Squad Finder option which will encourage teaming up, making new friends, & learning new tactics. Just saying but I've seen 13ear himself hosting a public squad in squad finder more then once. Besides as you said hardly anyone has that high of Lifetime SP so Scotty won't be counting you highly in his calculations compared to the 10 - 2 million Lifetime SP people on both sides. It'll probably bring more proto people to fight you then newbies anyway....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:01:00 - [5] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: I'd like to run some cheaper matches in my BPOs. Let the vets and noobs mix. Seperating a small player base will result in a lot more 3 vs 5 matches. Collective Meta Tiering is the only way to go. (Not explaining this again, Search it.) Sounds interesting.... you'll be fighting people on your & your friends level & if it's smaller it may become more intense we've seen what 1squad vs 1 squad can do during the squad cup....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:04:00 - [6] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Lifetime SP is mostly indicating how old the character is. Not how much experience he has or how good the players gun game or tactics are. It also means that players that take a longer break end up with much harder opponents, despite being much worse players than when they left due to lack of practice. And think about poor IWS who has very high SP yet barely anything beyond ADV tier because he's a generalist and dumps a little SP everywhere. This was one of the first things CCP looked at and discarded for this very reason(s) months ago. Lest I forget: Throwing high SP chars together means that PRO becomes the minimum to be competitive. Only PC funded players/corps can affort to run PRO in pubs with any kind of consistency. The rest will be forced to revert to STV/ADV eventually and thus gets stomped even harder than you can imagine. Maybe, but in New Eden I suspect by the time you have 10 million or so Lifetime SP & your still playing that you may have picked up a few things by then....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:07:00 - [7] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Well they could use KDR and/or SP as mixed pools. Just make sure both teams get an even mix of vets, noobs and squatters. Don't separate them off just get the mix a bit more even. Well I'd have to say no their, because you can be the best proto Logi. & you won't have that KDR or if your a pilot, Tanker, or forger & so on. But I like the idea if it includes KDR/SP/WL/WP all in 1 then maybe
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:12:00 - [8] - Quote Also we have to consider Scotty The AI, how MUCH is computable for him we can't overload him otherwise we'll just get the infamous Scotty Error which means no matches for anyone let alone them being fair or not. Only a DEV, GM &/or CPM may know how much Scotty could possibly handle. We may be see proto stomping till Dust 514 is on PS4 I know PS3 can't possibly handle all that's instore for Dust 514 to become....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 125	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:13:00 - [9] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Quick question: How does this compensate for players with high SP and doesn't use proto gear? It doesn't. Quick question: How does this compensate for players who are generally better than others regardless of SP? It doesn't Quick question: How does this compensate for players who run vehicles? It takes about the same SP to get a good STD tank as it does to get a proto suit + all modules + three proto weapons one of which is maxed out. It doesn't, thus the vehicle user is going to be against one or more people with proto AV. Quick question: How does this compensate for people just getting back into the game, having tons of SP and not remembering the mechanics of the game? It doesn't. All your reasoning is flawed and on top of that you seem to think that gear > actual skill. All matchmaking should be SKILL and SKILL only. I already answered those questions on pages 1 & 2 if you actually read them. Come back when you have new quick questions & I'll be happy to answer them for you
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 125	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:19:00 - [10] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: Imo the most effective way to balance matchmaking would be twofold. First, expand the academy so players arent kicked out of it til much later, like 1m wp or 5m sp or something. Also, make all players uncapped til they hit like 10m sp. This will provide everyone a fighting chance against people like me with a metric ton of sp I like this idea alot & it's quite possibly a 2nd solution. We could make 2 new match type areas where it picks a battle type at random. 1 could be named something simple like "Elite Match" for veterans & good players then the 2nd match be something called "Beginners Match" for newbies to join & fight each-other. Problem is you can't limit who can enter Elite or Beginner matches. Otherwise proto stompers & skilled people would just join the "Beginners" match just to crush them for easy ISK or they're precious KDR. Therefore you would have to limit who can enter using the Lifetime SP mechanic I mentioned

Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 125	Posted - 2013.12.03 19:58:00 - [11] - Quote Well I have yet to state my idea is perfect. It does have flaws, 1 reason why I opened this is so the idea can be improved apon because currently it's the only real solution & if edited/perfected it can be done in some form as the absolute solution to this long issue. If you loose once it's implamented then it will be due to skill set, tactics, & yourself as a good player & not due to OP gear which will finally absolve Dust of the proto stomp cry. No newbie no matter how real good can't really stand against a skilled, proto user with like 15 million Lifetime SP. A skilled into Duvolle AR added with Light DMG Modifiers can crush a proto Heavy let alone a newbie in militia gear skilled into nothing. But know theirs always a difference between the Elite & The Non-Elite as I said prior. That aside I digress.... Perhaps 2 new game modes but using the same game types with Lifetime SP as the restriction for both (as I said above in a reply) is the solution. Maybe it can be worked on, also I like the simple notion of offering a newbie a place in your squad off & on. Newbie's roiginally couldn't exactly get into just any squad so they made squad finder, then if a newbie join a Public squad will they keep him & if so how long? Also finding a corporation (if they've figured out to join a corporation) depends on what's right for the newbie & they're tastes, remember some corporations have rules & requirements. PIE Inc. for example it's simple enough it's a FW corporation, thing is it has some strong requirements like you can ONLY use Amarr gear & nothing else unless in the instance it's something you have to use because CCP has yet to make a Amarr version for it yet like you had to use AR's before they had Amarr SR's. Then they have to research which to join & most likely they'll hear mostly only of big corporations but they might eventually find a small corporation fitting them. Then theirs the issue of player base well if your on late don't forget about The Japanese, Russians, Spanish & etc. who are equally if not better then some USA corporations at being good players. But once it's implamented we might see more people, but I think we have enough people that it might work though I have my doubts. Also if Scotty has issues upon it being first implamented CCP will fix it as they always do eventually....
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 125	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:21:00 - [12] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Vinsarrow wrote: For the very last time people stop with your going on about proto stomping & your insane nonesense ways to fix it. This is the 1 easy, fast, & clear solution so support it if you want proto stomping to finally be fixed.... All CCP has to do is this, those with higher Lifetime SP wiil be facing only people with the same high range of Lifetime SP. Example a person with 15 million Lifetime SP will only be facing people with 17 million & 13 million Lifetime SP range. People with low lifetime SP will only be facing people with low Lifetime SP. Example a person has 5 million Lifetime SP then they'll only be facing people with the range of 7 million & 3 million Lifetime SP. Veterans with Veterans - Newbies with Newbies With the exception of squads & PC matches, then the system can match varying similiar people with similiar Lifetime SP range, in other words the more squads that are full the more the Lifetime SP will change to fit a general Lifetime SP range for all those playing. Example Amarr side has 2 Squads, Squad A is full proto & they're lifetime SP is generally around 10 million, Squad B has 1 proto user, 3 moderate people running adavanced gear like GEK's lifetime SP ranging 5 - 2 million, with 2 newbies in it's squad - The Minmitar side has 1 full squad & 1 half full squad, Squad A is all moderate people running Advanced gear, Squad B (the half filled squad) has 1 proto & 2 newbies. Scotty The AI will be encripted with mathmatical calculation gathering each & everyone's SP coming to a general Lifetime SP range of say 6 million+ (for the example above) be around the general range then Scotty will only allow "The randoms or Extra" people entering the match only to be within the priamaters of 6 million. There only people with 8 - 6 - 4 million Lifetime SP range can get in on that match. This will mean a little longer match loading & if CCP brings back The War Room to matches besides Factional & PC then Scotty can do his calculations while "Waiting for deployment" & at The War Room.... So what do you do late at night when the number of people queuing for battle won't allow for that system to work? What do you do when players figure out where the optimal "break point" is for the lifetime skill point thingy is and make sure that squads total lifetime SP doesn't exceed that number when putting squads together so taht they can still WTFPWN newbs? In the end you cannot account for everything and players are what break the system. So design a system that encourages players to get better, not worse. By putting same skill players against each other, they learn a hell of a lot less than if they are against a player that is higher skill than they are. Why the hell do you think that most jobs pair a newbie up with a veteran for mentoring? Everyone learns differently first of all. Furthermore let me quote something from Mass Effect 3 "They're using our own tactic against us, destroy the enemy with over whealming force" No plan, no tactic, no strategy, & no matter how intelligent 1 may be they can never really hope to defeat something that's FFAARR beyond they're power level. If you were wise you would know that & know nothing is to be learned their. Note read my last reply post before this 1 also. Here are 3 exellent visual examples btw that your welcome to look up on YOUtube. - Ulquiorra vs Ishida. Then Ichigo as Vasto Lorde vs Ulquiorra. Then Aizen vs All The Captains. & the 3rd is The Repears in Mass Effect 3 vs everyone in the entire game. Their are many many more examples but I think those fights clearly spell out my point here. What your saying is near basic to like handing a blade to a child & saying beat Kratos in a real fight. Or having a medieval militia of 35 with swords & armor vs a Modern Day USA Marine platoon. It just ain't going to happen XD
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 126	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:05:00 - [13] - Quote This post certainly grew fast.... just saying
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:41:00 - [14] - Quote I'm seeing proto complaints again so i'm bumping this up again
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 163	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:25:00 - [15] - Quote Well somethings need work, hit detection, for example when a bullet or whatever hits you - it shows with a red arrow where it came from, it's harder now to notice now as it's only a red blur in the direction you were hit & layered over it is the affect of your sheild being hit by attacks. As for Rail Rifle yes it's OP - Why? My friend bought the lowest level AUR (costs 30 AUR) & with barely any to no modules was able to swiftly kill Proto's, as for those who saved SP for 1.7 & were all proto & so on are expected to kill people with proto Rail Rifle however the Rail Rifle is OP & it will eventually be nerfed just stating the obvious. Everyone's running it simply because it's OP which is obvious if you go into almost any & all matches.... Hopefully though CCP won't nerf it so bad it becomes as useless as Laser Rifles or Flaylocks the Rail Rifle has potential just needs work. But this is reply is more on about 1.7 & less aboto the proto issue
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 165	Posted - 2013.12.21 19:50:00 - [16] - Quote Not a bad idea
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 170	Posted - 2014.01.02 19:47:00 - [17] - Quote Bumping
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 177	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:20:00 - [18] - Quote Did you read everything I posted here? I assume no from the reply. The idea is good & has been edited & new ideas have arisen with it.