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Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
841
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Posted - 2013.11.29 21:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
It takes only one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun right now to push me away in my Falchion. And I have 5600 shield and 34% passive resists.
Come 1.7, I'll have only 2650 shield and 0% passive resists. This means that the first shot will take away almost all of my shield before I kick up the hardener. The second shot will still manage to break my shield through 60% resists. I kick in my shield booster and I have just enough EHP to run back to the redline to recover and wait for cooldown.
Then when I try to come back to the battle, the cycle will start over again.
Anyone with a forge gun in 1.7 will be able to keep every shield vehicle hiding in the redline. This will lead to redline railgun tanks everywhere. I don't see where the balance is if CCP plans to not change forge guns.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation
Zero-Day
146
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Posted - 2013.11.29 21:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:It takes only one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun right now to push me away in my Falchion. And I have 5600 shield and 34% passive resists.
Come 1.7, I'll have only 2650 shield and 0% passive resists. This means that the first shot will take away almost all of my shield before I kick up the hardener. The second shot will still manage to break my shield through 60% resists. I kick in my shield booster and I have just enough EHP to run back to the redline to recover and wait for cooldown.
Then when I try to come back to the battle, the cycle will start over again.
Anyone with a forge gun in 1.7 will be able to keep every shield vehicle hiding in the redline. This will lead to redline railgun tanks everywhere. I don't see where the balance is if CCP plans to not change forge guns.
the assaults need 500 less damage and every other one 200 damage or 100
and complex heavy extenders brings you at 4000 hp
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
139
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vehicles rebalance is coming in 1.7 .lets see how hard they are to blow up. Remember the fast LAV You can't kill what you can't hit.I am against nerfing forge gun. |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
251
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
We'll see how the vehicle rebalanced turns out. Forge guns honestly aren't OP, especially in the newer maps, where they are largely interior based. They should be very effective AV weapons, as they are limited in several ways.
-Only heavies carry them
-They are (in theory) crappy against infantry
In the original wide open maps, yes Forge Guns seemed OP.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
139
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:It takes only one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun right now to push me away in my Falchion. And I have 5600 shield and 34% passive resists.
Come 1.7, I'll have only 2650 shield and 0% passive resists. This means that the first shot will take away almost all of my shield before I kick up the hardener. The second shot will still manage to break my shield through 60% resists. I kick in my shield booster and I have just enough EHP to run back to the redline to recover and wait for cooldown.
Then when I try to come back to the battle, the cycle will start over again.
Anyone with a forge gun in 1.7 will be able to keep every shield vehicle hiding in the redline. This will lead to redline railgun tanks everywhere. I don't see where the balance is if CCP plans to not change forge guns.
If I remember Tanks will have x amount of Super Stats for a limited period of time(Some Dev Post) Perhaps your stats are for the passive mode of the Tank, then when you go into battle you kick in Super Mode.Maybe like bastion Mode in EVE) |
Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
1816
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think they just need a huge range change (heh...that rhymes :D)
When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
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Kharga Lum
Xeno Labs Security
138
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's probably the Breach forge hitting you. The Ishokune wont do that in one shot. |
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
139
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I think they just need a huge range change (heh...that rhymes :D)
I would like a scope on my forge gun to kill those thale snipers. |
Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
843
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Posted - 2013.11.29 23:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:We'll see how the vehicle rebalanced turns out. Forge guns honestly aren't OP, especially in the newer maps, where they are largely interior based. They should be very effective AV weapons, as they are limited in several ways.
-Only heavies carry them
-They are (in theory) crappy against infantry
In the original wide open maps, yes Forge Guns seemed OP.
I never said that they were OP now. But they will become OP in 1.7. Reread the situation I mentioned, and don't tell me that it's balanced.
Luther Mandrix wrote:If I remember Tanks will have x amount of Super Stats for a limited period of time(Some Dev Post) Perhaps your stats are for the passive mode of the Tank, then when you go into battle you kick in Super Mode.Maybe like bastion Mode in EVE)
Nope. What I said was true. 2650 shield, 0 resists without hardener. Hardener gets kicked up after the first shot. But by then almost all the shields are gone and the second shot puts you into armor. Then kick in the booster for 1950 more shield and run for the redline as the forge gun unloads two more shots into your shields before it needs to be reloaded.
Kharga Lum wrote:It's probably the Breach forge hitting you. The Ishokune wont do that in one shot.
The breach forge will actually bring me down in two shots... it's happened. And about 2000 damage per shot for the IAFG is about right. Don't forget that they like to have prof 5 and some stacked damage mods.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
143
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Posted - 2013.11.30 13:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
He ... he ... he  ( * rubs hands together diabolically * ) I'm going to love the change from Tanks to  Forge Guns . So all the talk about the 40-60% damage res isn't true ???? How will that factor into the game ??? That's why I'm opting out and going to better my overall skills . Then maybe next year when they have introduced all the tiers and have swept all the bugs out then and only then will I invest back into vehicles .
I'll have a lot of catching up to do but at least I will be a better player by then and after studying all the pro's and con's and also all of you I will be better in that area as well . I'm sure when I do come back to vehicles that I will have the strongest basic's on the block .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
League of Infamy
382
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Posted - 2013.12.02 00:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah, because you know that almost no HAV pilot want anything to be a hard counter to their HAV like the apparently fast, super damage resistant, highly mobile heavy forge gunner apparently is.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
858
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Posted - 2013.12.02 00:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Yeah, because you know that almost no HAV pilot want anything to be a hard counter to their HAV like the apparently fast, super damage resistant, highly mobile heavy forge gunner apparently is.
When they are on a tower, firing shots worth over 2000 damage in less than 2 seconds from each other.... I'd argue that they are highly damage resistant. And they could have almost no mobility because that tower lets them cover the whole map.
Yep, sounds like balance to me.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
League of Infamy
382
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Posted - 2013.12.02 01:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Yeah, because you know that almost no HAV pilot want anything to be a hard counter to their HAV like the apparently fast, super damage resistant, highly mobile heavy forge gunner apparently is. When they are on a tower, firing shots worth over 2000 damage in less than 2 seconds from each other.... I'd argue that they are highly damage resistant. And they could have almost no mobility because that tower lets them cover the whole map. Yep, sounds like balance to me.
They can only cover the whole map if the whole map is less than 320 meters from the top of the tower. None of the maps are this small except maybe some ambush maps where there's plenty of cover on the ground to keep out of the tower forge kill zone and still be able to have a good fight.
Apparently you have also not played in a match were you have proper sniper and/or counter forge support to suppress the tower forge gunner.
You also obviously have no real experience using forge guns.
Lastly, the forge gun is supposed to be the heavy counter to HAVs.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3928
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Posted - 2013.12.02 01:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Is this taking into account my thread on using a laser to telegraph Forge Gun shots that you posted in earlier?
Just curious if you're presenting this as an alternative or in addition to that.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
858
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Posted - 2013.12.02 02:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Is this taking into account my thread on using a laser to telegraph Forge Gun shots that you posted in earlier?
Just curious if you're presenting this as an alternative or in addition to that.
I had this posted long before I came across your thread. And I'm in full support of what you presented, as it doesn't require any changes to current attributes at all, which I actually prefer.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3933
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Posted - 2013.12.02 02:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Is this taking into account my thread on using a laser to telegraph Forge Gun shots that you posted in earlier?
Just curious if you're presenting this as an alternative or in addition to that. I had this posted long before I came across your thread. And I'm in full support of what you presented, as it doesn't require any changes to current attributes at all, which I actually prefer.
Oh, ok, cool. Guess I could have checked the timestamps if I was really paying attention. 
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
684
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Posted - 2013.12.02 04:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:It takes only one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun right now to push me away in my Falchion. And I have 5600 shield and 34% passive resists.
Come 1.7, I'll have only 2650 shield and 0% passive resists. This means that the first shot will take away almost all of my shield before I kick up the hardener. The second shot will still manage to break my shield through 60% resists. I kick in my shield booster and I have just enough EHP to run back to the redline to recover and wait for cooldown.
Then when I try to come back to the battle, the cycle will start over again.
Anyone with a forge gun in 1.7 will be able to keep every shield vehicle hiding in the redline. This will lead to redline railgun tanks everywhere. I don't see where the balance is if CCP plans to not change forge guns.
I agree that FG and other AV should be balanced. But balancing weapons on basic tiers (remember that they will eliminate clutter on vehicles) will make them have to re-do the weapon again.
I think Vehicle users should wait till advanced and proto vehicles make it in game. Then After all the tiers are in (adv and proto vehicles), if it's still too much then balance the FG.
I believe that by reducing the vehicle slots CCP are thinking about introducing ADV and PROTO vehicles with more capabilities.
I Don't know how frustrated you are because I am no Vehicle pilot but do use the forge gun and completely agree that there should bee some tinkering done to the damage; but only when all the vehicles and their tiers are out.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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HUNK tm
What The French
99
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Posted - 2013.12.02 05:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
@CCP (if you read it dude  ) : I am full forge-gunner since the beta and I approve this message.
But wait the last tank's rank to make a global balance.
Why the HMG seems so inaccurate ?
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
League of Infamy
382
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Posted - 2013.12.02 05:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
HUNK tm wrote:@CCP (if you read it dude ) : I am full forge-gunner since the beta and I approve this message. But wait the last tank's rank to make a global balance.
The video in your signature has a major flaw.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
346
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Posted - 2013.12.02 06:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Always keep your hardener up when you're in a position where you're likely to get hit. Personally, I'd stack and stagger 2 hardeners for 1min on/15sec off with a booster because the base stats with a hardener are comparable to current tanks and an instant booster in nice in a pinch.
On topic: While I'd like to nerf those bastards into the ground, I'm also interested in balance. I'm with the seeming majority here that we should wait until after 1.7 drops to see where forges are and go from there. But if I was to change something now, I'd reduce their range to about 200-250m but keep everything else for now.
Some things I'd like to see in the future though are some countermeasures. Things like armor hardeners that double/triple forge charge time when up close, short burst active mods that absorb forge shots and recharge shields, things to check forges without nerfing their range/damage/etc.
Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane
Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
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