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Is Shield and speed tanking going to be viable again in 1.7 ?

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Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 193	Posted - 2013.11.29 16:44:00 - [1] - Quote CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid My Theme
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1465	Posted - 2013.11.29 16:54:00 - [2] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Shield user crying? Yep we have now seen everything. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 512	Posted - 2013.11.29 16:59:00 - [3] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Shield user crying? Yep we have now seen everything. Attorney he is right, the problem is aim assist it makes strafing obsolete because its far better to get as much DPS as you can manage to go with as much armor as you can stack. I used to actually be a pure shield tank caldari logi now its damage mods and armor.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2538	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:20:00 - [4] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Profile Damp is the New Scout way... The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
Infamous Erich Inf4m0us 56	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:21:00 - [5] - Quote The main problem is SCR doing twice as much damage compared to a duvolle with 2x damage mods and yes i can run a SCR level 1 with no damage mods and own duvolle's and everything else nerf bat that sheet allready Closed Beta Vet Shield Tank Vet Bring back my Sagaris
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 194	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:22:00 - [6] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Shield user crying? Yep we have now seen everything. You clearly mustn't have played DUST since 1.6 the general consensus is armour tank with damage mods ... How is pointing out a problem crying ?? I haven't screamed for a nerf I'm asking if CCP are going to introduce any changes to make shield/ speed tanking viable again ... The minmatar suits and scout suits need their movement speed and sprint speed increasing so they can speed tank more effectively, caldari/Amarr suits need the shield depleted recharge rates reducing so they begin recharging faster and the recharge rate increasing .. the shield regulators need the complex level to be worth using I mean 20% reduction for ADV and 25% for proto makes no sense .. why use alot more CPU/PG for only a 5% reduction ? Notice how I haven't asked for shield extenders to give more HP .. the issue is even with 2 25% regulators the caldari suits still have a 3 and 4.5 second delay between recharging on a game where the TTK is below that it makes no sense My Theme
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 44	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:51:00 - [7] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Profile Damp is the New Scout way...[/i] The **** is this tanking people speak of...I only have 149 armor and 80 shield and I do just fine XD Anything else seems to sap some functionality out of my suit x.x Dedicated scout. Because the suit is underpowered. Imagine the good ones when we get buffed people ;)
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 329	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:51:00 - [8] - Quote Speed tanking is dead, nothing will bring it back unless they undo aim assist/hit detection. You can still be fast but you cannot rely on that too dodge bullets. Shield tanking is in a bad place mostly because the 2 best weapons are shield destroyers. Nothing will balance them until there are better weapons and general TTK is dealt with. Shield tanking has more issues but you cannot attempt balance until those other issues are dealt with.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1470	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:00:00 - [9] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: You clearly mustn't have played DUST since 1.6 the general consensus is armour tank with damage mods ... How is pointing out a problem crying ?? I haven't screamed for a nerf I'm asking if CCP are going to introduce any changes to make shield/ speed tanking viable again ... Thanks for telling me I don't play the game. Wonderful assumption on your part. Shields are completely viable, you just suck. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 196	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:18:00 - [10] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: You clearly mustn't have played DUST since 1.6 the general consensus is armour tank with damage mods ... How is pointing out a problem crying ?? I haven't screamed for a nerf I'm asking if CCP are going to introduce any changes to make shield/ speed tanking viable again ... Thanks for telling me I don't play the game. Wonderful assumption on your part. Shields are completely viable, you just suck. Don't you have a bridge to be guarding from Goats Mr Troll ? You don't seem to be able to see a problem as glaringly obvious as Armor tanking to be the only viable tank at the moment so it's a kind assumption of suggesting that you haven't played since 1.6 rather than calling you a moron .. I guess you must be the latter then Maybe I do suck but I use both the Cal Logi and the Gal logi proto suits ... I notice a huge difference in effectiveness between using the shield tanking Cal Logi and the armor tanking Gal logi ... this isn't calling for a nerf of the gal logi it is calling for better balance between the 2 tank types ... as I said earlier the issue with shield tanking is the recharge delay .. it needs to be higher .. the whole point of shields is to pop out of cover shoot .. go back into cover shields regen .. pop back out off cover shoot again .. it's supposed to allow you to get back into combat quicker and armor is supposed to allow you to stay in combat longer .. right now the recharge rate is alot higher than the TTK so you remain in cover to recharge shields longer than it takes to lose the entirety of your hp including any armor you have .. shields should recharge faster than it takes to lose your entire HP I realise your clearly trolling out of plain ignorance/you have a pathetic life so I probably shouldn't have bothered explaining the issue again to you but it's more for other people to understand the issue more clearly than a response to you My Theme

Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3874	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:39:00 - [11] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Shield user crying? Yep we have now seen everything. Attorney he is right, the problem is aim assist it makes strafing obsolete because its far better to get as much DPS as you can manage to go with as much armor as you can stack. I used to actually be a pure shield tank caldari logi now its damage mods and armor. The "problem" isn't aim assist. The "problem" is that now that hit detection works properly, the complete lack of appreciable recoil on most of the weapons in the game has become blindingly obvious. Even SMGs are crazy accurate now, but rather than that being due to a stat change, it's due to how all those shots that were either missing or disappearing before are now hitting their targets. What we "need" is a redesign of how recoil functions in Dust, similar to the recoil revision done by Zombie Studios on Blacklight: Retribution earlier this year. If our weapons were to have a better recoil model that would build with continuous firing and then have a reset delay such that you had to pause between your bursts to get your full accuracy back, you wouldn't see the problems we have with strafing or shield tanking right now. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 481	Posted - 2013.11.29 21:36:00 - [12] - Quote @Mobius Wyvern - while I gave you a +1 they can also just drop Aim Assist and scale back the the damage on full auto weapons and fix the ScR so it can spam shots so easily. What you suggest is the right way to go but if they cant get it right do the easy thing. @ Op - I hope they keep up armor tanking, my CR will be very happy
nor asha Turbo Bros inc. 20	Posted - 2013.11.29 21:44:00 - [13] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Shield user crying? Yep we have now seen everything. The man is talking about having more useful distinct advantages for each play style For instance cloaking scouts will change everything. That's not the only incoming change that will shake things up but I agree with the OP that more needs to be done. He gets a little whiny, yeah but it's hidden right there in the middle. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game It seems like I can't find anyone who says that getting 75 kills with the SCR is impressive. What game is I'm playing? What happen to skrimish 1.0 where getting 28 kills was god like. ;_; CCP HALP
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 955	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:03:00 - [14] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid Divergent thought is discouraged, you are going against the Party line. please submit yourself to the local party office for reeducation There is a strong chance you won't like what I have to say.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:07:00 - [15] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid hahahah I waited for this day to happen when armor was USEABLE and shield tankers would CRY. I'll drink from shield tanker's tears. Any who who ran shield tank+ AR are now crying on the fourms. I love it. Why not use 1 shield energizers and 3 shield extenders?.Fill your low's up with regulators so ur shields come back faster. Shield tanking isnt lost. Noobs trying to shield tank on the other hand is. Good thing Dust514 is free. I would have returned it along time ago.
Arknez Academy Inferno E-R-A 7	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:13:00 - [16] - Quote Now we have AR and ScR that oriented to damage shields but then we will have combat rifle and rail rifle there will be a lot of pain for armor tankers, but I also think we need shield extenders that give small amount of hp and have no minuses, and shield extenders that give more hp and have some kind of minus like armor have.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 178	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:50:00 - [17] - Quote Arknez wrote: Now we have AR and ScR that oriented to damage shields but then we will have combat rifle and rail rifle there will be a lot of pain for armor tankers, but I also think we need shield extenders that give small amount of hp and have no minuses, and shield extenders that give more hp and have some kind of minus like armor have. Shields could give another 10-15+ on them but at the cost OF making there shields take longer to recharge OR smaller amount being recharged Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns please :D
The legend345 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 4264	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:58:00 - [18] - Quote nothings viable with 5 slots. Tanker
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2086	Posted - 2013.11.29 23:09:00 - [19] - Quote I think they may need consider messing with the movement speed/penalties to shake things up a bit. I think this would buff shields indirectly, bringing some much needed balance there. Armor and shields have flip flopped too excessively. Finally could then rework the resistances making a combination of damage types more necessary. For example making it impossible to one shot anyone with a SCR or a MD because of the extreme damages to respective HP types and resistances to others. There are 4 different types of damage in Eve and different types of ammo that effective the ranges of weapons. That would take a lot of work and perhaps it's something planned in the future, but it seems like it would make balancing much easier. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 329	Posted - 2013.11.29 23:12:00 - [20] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: hahahah I waited for this day to happen when armor was USEABLE and shield tankers would CRY. I'll drink from shield tanker's tears. Anyone who ran shield tank+ AR are now crying on the fourms. I love it. Why not use 1 shield energizers and 3 shield extenders?.Fill your low's up with regulators so ur shields come back faster. Shield tanking isnt lost. Noobs trying to shield tank on the other hand is. Ya the lament of the shield tanker. It's a complete flip from a few months ago. As a shield tanker I called for balance but I'll let armor tankers have their reign...but it's not balanced. Energizers aren't viable because of the sacrifice in hp...Shield tankers are hit twice, once from no extender and once from the energizer hit. In the era of low TTK pure hp is the only answer. Regulators are still good, they help but still don't balance our against a brick tank.

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1054	Posted - 2013.11.29 23:32:00 - [21] - Quote Infamous Erich wrote: The main problem is SCR doing twice as much damage compared to a duvolle with 2x damage mods and yes i can run a SCR level 1 with no damage mods and own duvolle's and everything else nerf bat that sheet allready That's assumes maximum RoF, which is nigh impossible without a modded controller. In reality, it actually does about 40-50% more DPS than a Duvolle, which is also OP. I'm sick of people defending ARs like they were somehow violated by ScRs. Both are OP as ** and need a good strong hit with the nerf bat. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]** Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 517	Posted - 2013.11.29 23:39:00 - [22] - Quote Lol and to think people were so upset to see cal logi's with 5 shield extenders having 700 shields, but almost no outrage over gal logi with 900 armor, 3 damage mods, and proto equipment while still being much faster than heavies. What a joke
Funkmaster Whale Fatal Absolution 1224	Posted - 2013.11.29 23:41:00 - [23] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: You clearly mustn't have played DUST since 1.6 the general consensus is armour tank with damage mods ... How is pointing out a problem crying ?? I haven't screamed for a nerf I'm asking if CCP are going to introduce any changes to make shield/ speed tanking viable again ... Thanks for telling me I don't play the game. Wonderful assumption on your part. Shields are completely viable, you just suck. Not really. Shields are paper thin now vs the rampant AR and ScRs. And as other people have pointed out, aim assist has negated speed tanking which is primarily supported by a shield buffer. Shields are no longer really viable because you simply get absolutely countered by the ScR/Armor tank combo. Even if you land twice as many shots, you still get outDPSd and outsurvived. Go ahead and tell me I suck too. Let me play you the song of my people!
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 517	Posted - 2013.11.29 23:44:00 - [24] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: You clearly mustn't have played DUST since 1.6 the general consensus is armour tank with damage mods ... How is pointing out a problem crying ?? I haven't screamed for a nerf I'm asking if CCP are going to introduce any changes to make shield/ speed tanking viable again ... Thanks for telling me I don't play the game. Wonderful assumption on your part. Shields are completely viable, you just suck. Not really. Shields are paper thin now vs the rampant AR and ScRs. And as other people have pointed out, aim assist has negated speed tanking which is primarily supported by a shield buffer. Shields are no longer really viable because you simply get absolutely countered by the ScR/Armor tank combo. Even if you land twice as many shots, you still get outDPSd and outsurvived. Go ahead and tell me I suck too. Thank you, glad I'm not the only one who isn't oblivious.
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 201	Posted - 2013.11.30 00:01:00 - [25] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: CCP answer this question for us .. I'm bored of every man and his dog running armour plates in low slots and damage mods in high slots .. its boring and there is currently no diversity in this game .. alot of people even use heavy suits combined with an ScR or an AR .. I mean .. seriously .. very few ppl are running anything other than the AR/ScR combo and armour tanking and surely you can see it's stupid hahahah I waited for this day to happen when armor was USEABLE and shield tankers would CRY. I'll drink from shield tanker's tears. Anyone who ran shield tank+ AR are now crying on the fourms. I love it. Why not use 1 shield energizers and 3 shield extenders?.Fill your low's up with regulators so ur shields come back faster. Shield tanking isnt lost. Noobs trying to shield tank on the other hand is. DUST Fitting tool .. Every skill level 5 lets put your theory to the test Cal Logi CK.0 Highs 5x Complex Shield Extenders Lows 3x Complex Shield regulators 1 Complex CPU module (even with max proficiency in everything you need this or you dont have enough CPU to fit all the extenders and regulators) Duvolle AR Core Locus Grenades 534/620 CPU 69/102 PG 502 Shields 112 Armour Total eHP is 614 ... 2.2 Shield recharge delay... 2.8 Shield Depleted recharge delay 33 recharge rate This build is fine in theory however now take into account it's going up against Gallentes with complex damage mods in the highs using ScR and AR's ... your weapon is hitting 43.01 with every skilled maxed compared to the gallente with damage mods stacked 54.35 .... thats an extra 11 damage per bullet .. seeing as ARs get 110% damage to shields and 90% to armour .. that 54.35 actually becomes 59.78 v your shields ... that means it only takes 11 bullets to take both your shields and armour off and kill you ... Now let us compare the 43.01 damage v a Gal Logi Highs 3x Complex damage mods Lows 4x Complex Armour Plates Complex Armour Repairer Weapon Duvolle Grenades Core Locus Grenade 112 Shields 819 Armour 921 eHP with 11.25 Armour Repair rate Taking into account the damage modifiers it will take 23 bullets to kill this loadout .. that is over twice as many bullets required to kill the cal logi shield tanking loadout I know you'll say the recharge delay is only 2 seconds .. how often do you get 2.5 seconds in the middle of a firefight for your shields to begin recharging and then another 10 seconds for them to be full charged ??? It seems to clear to me that you don;t have a clue what your talking about ... as i;ve said all throughout this thread I can use both Proto Cal Logi and Proto Gal logi PS I haven't even included the ScR in this point because .. Lol OHK shield with a charge shot ... and then 1 more normal shot and your armors gone The Gallente suits not only get increased HP they also have increased damage with the free high slots My Theme


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