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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
291
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Posted - 2013.11.29 14:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:(because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR).
You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you?
You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
291
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 15:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Marston VC wrote:(because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you? You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether. That's cool, they've also said that they don't want them to be slayers, so for me, that's good enough. Anything that nerfs the I win button of logistics is good in my book.
As I've said before, I think the best solution would be to give cal, min, and (maybe) gal assault a little more PG/CPU as that's the biggest thing holding those suits back. If that's still not enough for you we could equalize the base stats (since assaults don't seem to appreciate the advantage they have there anyway) and give assaults one or two more slots than they have now. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
291
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 15:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:I honestly can't see how people think these band-aids (sidearm only, PG/CPU nerf, required equipment) are going to solve the real problem that all suits have - Devs are attempting to define roles through slot counts and nothing else. More slots = better slayer (the only battlefield role we have), so of course the Logi is going to come out on top. This system is obviously not working, and all of the suggestions here do nothing but attempt to cripple the Logi and send everyone after the next FotM.
You'd have a point if the only slots were highs and lows. But sidearm and equipment slots make slot-based balancing a perfectly valid approach. A suit with a sidearm is better able to stay in a prolonged firefight, just as a suit with 3 or 4 equipment slots is better at logi stuff than a suit with 1 slot. The main problem is nothing to do with slots, but rather most assault suits' lack of PG/CPU.
Quote:Give the second link in my sig a read. It's a proposal to buff all suits in the areas they're supposed to excel at (including the logi) by giving everyone powerful role bonuses. They're apparently unable to code for that. And besides, it would be too late to bring it in now unless they bring in a respec with it. It would be ridiculously unfair to announce that, say, Gallente logi is the specialist medic logi, when people who hate the injector (but are great at other logi stuff) have millions of points in the suit. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
291
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 15:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Marston VC wrote:Philipp Achtel wrote:Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem.
The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers".
And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought. Idk what you want then dude, because this game along with just about any other MMO based game is BASED ON NUMBERS. The best way to make assault suits worth it is to either A.) make it so they can fit a ton of stuff in the modules they have. OR B.) make their racial bonus actually valuable. both of which are viable ways to make these suits worth using. Gallente assault is the only suit that's underpowered compared to its logistics counterpart. But core mechanics and lack of content can be to blame. (Imagine if we had hybrid sidearms and grenades) The real issue is assaults aren't much different from medium suits to make them attractive compared to logistics. Change some slots around, slight CPU or PG buff, extra base HP, anything to make the suit different would make the suit more worth the SP investment to a discerning eye.
Gallente assault is one of the best assault suits, with Amarr. Minmatar and Caldari look nice until you realize you need to waste a slot on a CPU extender. Basically lots of lows is better than lots of highs when you're CPU/PG limited, which assaults generally are, plus the Gallente has the hybrid weapon fitting bonus. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
291
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 18:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
In frontline military use a sidearm is always a back up weapon. It would make no sense whatsoever to send infantry into combat without a primary weapon. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
292
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 13:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
J4yne C0bb wrote:Marston VC wrote:Its gotten to the point to where I wouldn't be "opposed" to it, however there needs to be a lot of things done in order for it to be worthwhile. (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR).
The first thing that would need to be done is Assault suits across the board should get a CPU/PG BUFF. As it stands right now, assault suits simply DO NOT have enough CPU/PG to use all the modules we should be able to use. I have maximum core skills giving me a +30% to both PG/CPU and I still have to put a CPU/PG upgrade on my minmatar assault. That's just ridiculous. By increasing assault suits PG/CPU I feel assault suits will be much more capable at being...... assault suits. They'll be able to put on that good frontline tank they need in order to actually survive against the newly shortened TTK. Because as it is right now, you have to give up either that sidearm, or maybe even a whole module slot in order to make things fit, and that just doesn't make sense to me. (Especially considering ive done almost everything I can to maximize CPU/PG efficiency).
The second thing that would need to be done is an introduction to the rest of the Racial sidearms. After 1.7 the light weapons will have their full racial variants. Being limited to only two (discounting the nova knives) side arms, would severely limit logis in what they can do offensively and even defensively. So I think it would be in everyones best interest to round out the rest of the weapon classes before we go ahead and make drastic balance changes like the one people keep ranting on about.
The third and finale thing is this. If were reducing the light weapon slot down to a sidearm only slot, then I want some kind of compensation for it. A little bit more CPU/PG, maybe some kind of extra grenade slot that will allow for two types of grenades. Idc what so long as something is compensating for the drastic loss in potential firepower.
And one finale note I would like to mention. If CCP was to take away light weapon slots from logis. What about the Amar logi? Would it just get two sidearm slots? Because I think that would take out A LOT of the appeal in using it. But heyyyyy maybe that's just me? I'd be ok with sidearm-only logis, but only if some of the other weapons (like MD, Plasma Cannon, Swarm Launcher) are separated out into a new class of weapon designated "Support" or similar. Logis would have two weapons slots, Sidearm and the new Support class, in exchange for removing the Light slot. That way logis could primarily provide supporting fire to their squad using a MD or PC, but still have a weapon to adequately defend themselves. The only reason I skilled Prof 3 into AR as a logi (who actually logis) was so I could remain somewhat competitive with the assault class, so a respec of any SP put into Light would be nice, so I could dump it into SMG, but I doubt that would happen.
Given that the plasma cannon is UP, and you'd have to be insane to use a swarm launcher on a (non-Amarr) logi, logis would basically have to use a MD to be competitive. A bit restrictive, don't you think? |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
292
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 15:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
DR FEB wrote:the dawn of logis running mini hmg will come
or a sawed off shotgun,
or a portable turret
or a special chuck norris punch
or even a flamethrower
*DR FEB realizes that these items will never come and jumps out of his window, only to find out he was on the ground floor*
If logis had to run HMG (or a sidearm) that would be enough of a nerf... |
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