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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
629
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Posted - 2013.11.26 18:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Logistics dropsuit gain 2 high/low slots (different combination for different races) AND 2-3 equipment slots AND increased CPU/PG compared to the basic frame (prototype). The only tradeoff is that the logistics suit loses out on the sidearm. I believe the logistics suit has too few tradeoffs and too many gains compared to the assault medium and basic medium frames.
Assault has the same slot layout as the basic one (I would happily lose my equipment slot for another high slot on my ck.0). Too many increased parameters without any decrease in others make this suit too good at many different roles, since it can compensate for all drawbacks with so many module slots.
Below is a practical comparison of the caldari medium suits (basic/assault/logi) on prototype level:
Caldari logi ck.0 Light weapon Grenade 5 High 4 Low 3 Equip
Caldari assault ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Disregarding the weapon slots and equipment, the logi has 5+4=9 low/high slots, assault has 3+4=7 low/high slots. If we sum up the total number of slots including equipment: logi => 5+4+3 = 12, assault => 3+4+1 = 8 (equal to basic frame ck.0).
So, the assault ck.0 has 8 slots to adapt their fitting with. Logistics ck.0 has 12 slots (3 of those are equipment). On top of this, the logistics suit get more CPU and PG in order to fit equipment.
The real fix to ck.0 (as an example) is to make sure it gains for example 4 equip slots, but that the logi in total has 8 slots, like the basic frame ck.0.
Here is an example of how I would like to see the dropsuit progression work like in the future, where you have to make a decision about tradeoffs rather than like now, that one dropsuit is better in most aspects than others (logi > basic & assault):
Example future layout (Basic medium ck.0) 4 high 2 low 2 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
Example future layout (logi ck.0) 3 high 2 low 4 equip Light weapon Grenade
Example future layout (assault ck.0) 5 high 3 low 0 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
See the above as an example of hit this progression makes each specialized suit better in one area, and the basic variant is a mix of both. This tiered progression makes sense because, the basic suit can be used (for both assault and logistics) if you dont want to specialize and become a logi or assault specialist.
Hope to get some devs in here!
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
5421
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Beating a dead horse. It has been confirmed that logistics are being looked at.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Trey Hardin
Knights of Molden Heath
41
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it
Veni Vidi Contrivi - I came I saw I Destroyed
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1686
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Beating a dead horse. It has been confirmed that logistics are being looked at. Linky?
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1686
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Trey Hardin wrote:don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it Do assaults die before the can assault?
Having similar EHP values won't kill a logis ability to rep a teammate or drop link.
It prevents them from getting abused like they are now.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
156
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Logistics dropsuit gain 2 high/low slots (different combination for different races) AND 2-3 equipment slots AND increased CPU/PG compared to the basic frame (prototype). The only tradeoff is that the logistics suit loses out on the sidearm. I believe the logistics suit has too few tradeoffs and too many gains compared to the assault medium and basic medium frames.
Assault has the same slot layout as the basic one (I would happily lose my equipment slot for another high slot on my ck.0). Too many increased parameters without any decrease in others make this suit too good at many different roles, since it can compensate for all drawbacks with so many module slots.
Below is a practical comparison of the caldari medium suits (basic/assault/logi) on prototype level:
Caldari basic ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Caldari logi ck.0 Light weapon Grenade 5 High 4 Low 3 Equip
Caldari assault ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Disregarding the weapon slots and equipment, the logi has 5+4=9 low/high slots, assault has 3+4=7 low/high slots. If we sum up the total number of slots including equipment: logi => 5+4+3 = 12, assault => 3+4+1 = 8 (equal to basic frame ck.0).
So, the assault ck.0 has 8 slots to adapt their fitting with. Logistics ck.0 has 12 slots (3 of those are equipment). On top of this, the logistics suit get more CPU and PG in order to fit equipment.
The real fix to ck.0 (as an example) is to make sure it gains for example 4 equip slots, but that the logi in total has 8 slots, like the basic frame ck.0.
Here is an example of how I would like to see the dropsuit progression work like in the future, where you have to make a decision about tradeoffs rather than like now, that one dropsuit is better in most aspects than others (logi > basic & assault):
Example future layout (Basic medium ck.0) 4 high 2 low 2 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
Example future layout (logi ck.0) 3 high 2 low 3 equip Light weapon Grenade
Example future layout (assault ck.0) 5 high 3 low 0 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
See the above as an example of hit this progression makes each specialized suit better in one area, and the basic variant is a mix of both. This tiered progression makes sense because, the basic suit can be used (for both assault and logistics) if you dont want to specialize and become a logi or assault specialist.
Hope to get some devs in here!
You lose credibility. Logi has a lot of tradeoffs.
Less Base Hp. Less Stamina. Less Speed. No sidearm.
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Trey Hardin
Knights of Molden Heath
41
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it Do assaults die before the can assault? Having similar EHP values won't kill a logis ability to rep a teammate or drop link. It prevents them from getting abused like they are now. yes they are abused but what he is talking about doing is dropping my slot count and raising the assault past it. I have to have more EHP to eat bullets while I revive a man then get him to safety
Veni Vidi Contrivi - I came I saw I Destroyed
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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
18
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Posted - 2013.11.26 23:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
While I agree Logi suits have several tradeoffs, I see what OP means: there is no SOLID difference between {base} ck.0 and {assault} ck.0 |
Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1686
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Trey Hardin wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it Do assaults die before the can assault? Having similar EHP values won't kill a logis ability to rep a teammate or drop link. It prevents them from getting abused like they are now. yes they are abused but what he is talking about doing is dropping my slot count and raising the assault past it. I have to have more EHP to eat bullets while I revive a man then get him to safety Why are you revving somebody in the middle of a firefight?
You don't need to eat more bullets then the assaults do. If you have to rev somebody right in the middle of a firefight, your doing it wrong. And most everybody knows it.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Trey Hardin
Knights of Molden Heath
42
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it Do assaults die before the can assault? Having similar EHP values won't kill a logis ability to rep a teammate or drop link. It prevents them from getting abused like they are now. yes they are abused but what he is talking about doing is dropping my slot count and raising the assault past it. I have to have more EHP to eat bullets while I revive a man then get him to safety Why are you revving somebody in the middle of a firefight? You don't need to eat more bullets then the assaults do. If you have to rev somebody right in the middle of a firefight, your doing it wrong. And most everybody knows it. I have to clear the area first and how can I do that if I can't take a shot
Veni Vidi Contrivi - I came I saw I Destroyed
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Trey Hardin
Knights of Molden Heath
42
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it Do assaults die before the can assault? Having similar EHP values won't kill a logis ability to rep a teammate or drop link. It prevents them from getting abused like they are now. yes they are abused but what he is talking about doing is dropping my slot count and raising the assault past it. I have to have more EHP to eat bullets while I revive a man then get him to safety Why are you revving somebody in the middle of a firefight? You don't need to eat more bullets then the assaults do. If you have to rev somebody right in the middle of a firefight, your doing it wrong. And most everybody knows it. I have to clear the area first and how can I do that if I can't take a shot How about the assaults get a bonus that actually effects them rather than nerf the logi
Veni Vidi Contrivi - I came I saw I Destroyed
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8019
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:While I agree Logi suits have several tradeoffs, I see what OP means: there is no SOLID difference between {base} ck.0 and {assault} ck.0 And this is the biggest problem. Compared to heavy => sentinel and basic => logistics, assault and scout suits don't get a lot for the SP investment aside from a new color and a pair of bonuses. Scouts should get a second equipment slot, and more speed while assaults should get more CPU or PG and armor or shields. (Depending on race) Logistics aren't the best suit in the game, just the most attractive choice by comparison.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1686
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Logistics dropsuit gain 2 high/low slots (different combination for different races) AND 2-3 equipment slots AND increased CPU/PG compared to the basic frame (prototype). The only tradeoff is that the logistics suit loses out on the sidearm. I believe the logistics suit has too few tradeoffs and too many gains compared to the assault medium and basic medium frames.
Assault has the same slot layout as the basic one (I would happily lose my equipment slot for another high slot on my ck.0). Too many increased parameters without any decrease in others make this suit too good at many different roles, since it can compensate for all drawbacks with so many module slots.
Below is a practical comparison of the caldari medium suits (basic/assault/logi) on prototype level:
Caldari basic ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Caldari logi ck.0 Light weapon Grenade 5 High 4 Low 3 Equip
Caldari assault ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Disregarding the weapon slots and equipment, the logi has 5+4=9 low/high slots, assault has 3+4=7 low/high slots. If we sum up the total number of slots including equipment: logi => 5+4+3 = 12, assault => 3+4+1 = 8 (equal to basic frame ck.0).
So, the assault ck.0 has 8 slots to adapt their fitting with. Logistics ck.0 has 12 slots (3 of those are equipment). On top of this, the logistics suit get more CPU and PG in order to fit equipment.
The real fix to ck.0 (as an example) is to make sure it gains for example 4 equip slots, but that the logi in total has 8 slots, like the basic frame ck.0.
Here is an example of how I would like to see the dropsuit progression work like in the future, where you have to make a decision about tradeoffs rather than like now, that one dropsuit is better in most aspects than others (logi > basic & assault):
Example future layout (Basic medium ck.0) 4 high 2 low 2 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
Example future layout (logi ck.0) 3 high 2 low 3 equip Light weapon Grenade
Example future layout (assault ck.0) 5 high 3 low 0 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
See the above as an example of hit this progression makes each specialized suit better in one area, and the basic variant is a mix of both. This tiered progression makes sense because, the basic suit can be used (for both assault and logistics) if you dont want to specialize and become a logi or assault specialist.
Hope to get some devs in here! You lose credibility. Logi has a lot of tradeoffs. Less Base Hp. Less Stamina. Less Speed. No sidearm. 60 HP, so much!
Considering that I can get more then that in one basic plate, which logi can fit two more of then assaults, that's a null trade.
Speed tanking has been dead since, forever. Removal of the turn cap and adding aim assist killed it. In the case of getting to the obby, considering the fact we we can spawn a car that can go 60 MPH wherever we want on the map, the speed difference only counts only between the LAV parking spot and the objective, that's a very small issue.
The sidearm is only used in CQC against multiple opponents, as sidearms lose effectiveness past that range, which is already onesided at any rate.
Every downfall a logi has is a situational issue.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
639
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Posted - 2013.11.27 07:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Logi has too many buffs and not big enough drawbacks. Also assault is not well distinguished from the basic frame. People cant disagree with or deny these facts... Many people are scared to lose their crutch though.
My main point with this post is to point out the imbalance between assaults and logis.
Byw, who says a logi should carry a needle? I always carry needle on my fronline suit. Logi should supply equipnent, repairs and scanning, as well as supportive fire. They should lean more towards a scout class (light assault) rather than a heavy. You need run speed to support your team not HP.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
466
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Posted - 2013.11.27 13:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:While I agree Logi suits have several tradeoffs, I see what OP means: there is no SOLID difference between {base} ck.0 and {assault} ck.0
EXACTLY. This is the fallacy of the nerf logi movement. If you have two specialist suits, and one is much better than the basic frame, and one is not, what is the solution?
"Of course, let's make the one with advantages worse!"
What? ?$&@%#!?#!
No, you improve the one that isn't much better than the basic suit! Not rocket science here, people.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
278
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Posted - 2013.11.27 14:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Logistics dropsuit gain 2 high/low slots (different combination for different races) AND 2-3 equipment slots AND increased CPU/PG compared to the basic frame (prototype). The only tradeoff is that the logistics suit loses out on the sidearm. I believe the logistics suit has too few tradeoffs and too many gains compared to the assault medium and basic medium frames.
Assault has the same slot layout as the basic one (I would happily lose my equipment slot for another high slot on my ck.0). Too many increased parameters without any decrease in others make this suit too good at many different roles, since it can compensate for all drawbacks with so many module slots.
Below is a practical comparison of the caldari medium suits (basic/assault/logi) on prototype level:
Caldari basic ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Caldari logi ck.0 Light weapon Grenade 5 High 4 Low 3 Equip
Caldari assault ck.0 Light weapon Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Disregarding the weapon slots and equipment, the logi has 5+4=9 low/high slots, assault has 3+4=7 low/high slots. If we sum up the total number of slots including equipment: logi => 5+4+3 = 12, assault => 3+4+1 = 8 (equal to basic frame ck.0).
So, the assault ck.0 has 8 slots to adapt their fitting with. Logistics ck.0 has 12 slots (3 of those are equipment). On top of this, the logistics suit get more CPU and PG in order to fit equipment.
The real fix to ck.0 (as an example) is to make sure it gains for example 4 equip slots, but that the logi in total has 8 slots, like the basic frame ck.0.
Here is an example of how I would like to see the dropsuit progression work like in the future, where you have to make a decision about tradeoffs rather than like now, that one dropsuit is better in most aspects than others (logi > basic & assault):
Example future layout (Basic medium ck.0) 4 high 2 low 2 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
Example future layout (logi ck.0) 3 high 2 low 3 equip Light weapon Grenade
Example future layout (assault ck.0) 5 high 3 low 0 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade
See the above as an example of hit this progression makes each specialized suit better in one area, and the basic variant is a mix of both. This tiered progression makes sense because, the basic suit can be used (for both assault and logistics) if you dont want to specialize and become a logi or assault specialist.
Hope to get some devs in here!
Logis do loose more than just the Sidearm and by now you should know that. But I will show it again for you:
Less Stamina Less Stamina recovery Less speed Less Hp Base Less shield recharge Higher shield delay Higher shield depletion delay
Garth Mandra made an interesting thought about this here.
Apart from that Assault suit don't loose anything but they do not gain as much (nothin apart from thei bonus to be precise).
I would gladly give one maybe even two H or L slot to be slightly faster than asssaults that would help me to keep running with the frontlines where my help is needed.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
173
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Posted - 2013.11.27 17:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Trey Hardin wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:don't touch my logi I need the slots to be able to actually support my team it does no good to be able to have the equipment and then die before I can use it Do assaults die before the can assault? Having similar EHP values won't kill a logis ability to rep a teammate or drop link. It prevents them from getting abused like they are now. yes they are abused but what he is talking about doing is dropping my slot count and raising the assault past it. I have to have more EHP to eat bullets while I revive a man then get him to safety Why are you revving somebody in the middle of a firefight? You don't need to eat more bullets then the assaults do. If you have to rev somebody right in the middle of a firefight, your doing it wrong. And most everybody knows it. I have to clear the area first and how can I do that if I can't take a shot How about the assaults get a bonus that actually effects them rather than nerf the logi So what your saying is you need to be able to both kill all the opposition and heal your teamate No you should be that giy If he's behind cover inject and Rep If he's not try to kill opposition but don't assume ypu need to be able to eat bulets while killing everyone then reviving your buddy
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Free tacos
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Smooth Assassin
Stardust incorporation
386
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Posted - 2013.11.27 18:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Beating a dead horse. It has been confirmed that logistics are being looked at. At least it's dead.
Assassination is my thing.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
279
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Posted - 2013.11.27 18:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Logi has too many buffs and not big enough drawbacks. Also assault is not well distinguished from the basic frame. People cant disagree with or deny these facts... Many people are scared to lose their crutch though.
My main point with this post is to point out the imbalance between assaults and logis.
Byw, who says a logi should carry a needle? I always carry needle on my fronline suit. Logi should supply equipnent, repairs and scanning, as well as supportive fire. They should lean more towards a scout class (light assault) rather than a heavy. You need run speed to support your team not HP.
I am with you here I always wanted to trade a slot or two for more speed. It is so stupid that the only one I can keep up with is a heavy. I left my gal logi for that reason in favour for the min logi...
But the funny part is at first assaults complained that would make logies even better assaults because of the speed but now speed is no longer an issue for assaults they now prefere to tank and move like a heavy. |
Heavenly Daughter
the Aurum Grinder and Company
179
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Posted - 2013.11.27 19:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
I foresee, NO LOGISTICS on the field, woe betide you all. !
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/.)\ Nade | Scan Attempt Prevented | 30 mill SP
\__/ 514 | Longest Shot 588 Mtrs |
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