Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Fox Gaden
Bojo's School of the Trades
1609
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Planetary Conquest was supposed to be like the board game Risk. Then the restrictions on clone starter packs were removed. This allowed anyone to attack any district in the game regardless of location. It made location meaningless. Think of it as a chess game where any pease whether a Pawn or a Queen can be moved to any square on the chess board in one move. It ceases to be much of a game anymore.
So Planetary Conquest was supposed to be a tactical game at high levels, where each move resulted in a FPS battle. However, the high level tactical game has been removed.
The changes mentioned in this Blog, which reduce the travel penalty on moving clones, simply makes the problem worse. The problem is that with the clone packs you can attack anywhere, so anyone wanting to attack a distant target will obviously use a clone pack. The solution is to restrict the clone packs, not to remove restrictions on the district clones!
I still think the best solution is to go back to the original movement restrictions and simply apply them to the Clone Packs as well. You just need to designate starting locations where you are allowed to launch Clone Packs from. I would suggest that these starting points should either be your own district, or if you donGÇÖt own a district, then they should start from a high Sec system.
Renier Gaden: CEO of Immortal Guides
Fox Gaden: TCO & TMO for BSotT
Crash Gaden: Operations Director, Immortal Guide
|
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
748
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:You just need to designate starting locations where you are allowed to launch Clone Packs from. I would suggest that these starting points should either be your own district, or if you donGÇÖt own a district, then they should start from a high Sec system.
How about adding the ability to start from a district you don't own so long as the district's owner gives permission? Then district owners can offer advantageous starting points for a price.
!
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1508
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Planetary Conquest was supposed to be like the board game Risk. Then the restrictions on clone starter packs were removed. This allowed anyone to attack any district in the game regardless of location. It made location meaningless. Think of it as a chess game where any pease whether a Pawn or a Queen can be moved to any square on the chess board in one move. It ceases to be much of a game anymore. So Planetary Conquest was supposed to be a tactical game at high levels, where each move resulted in a FPS battle. However, the high level tactical game has been removed. The changes mentioned in this Blog, which reduce the travel penalty on moving clones, simply makes the problem worse. The problem is that with the clone packs you can attack anywhere, so anyone wanting to attack a distant target will obviously use a clone pack. The solution is to restrict the clone packs, not to remove restrictions on the district clones! I still think the best solution is to go back to the original movement restrictions and simply apply them to the Clone Packs as well. You just need to designate starting locations where you are allowed to launch Clone Packs from. I would suggest that these starting points should either be your own district, or if you donGÇÖt own a district, then they should start from a high Sec system. Whatever solution you go with, it has to give location meaning and tactical significance or PC will continue to feel like a fight over who can hole the most marbles rather than a conquest of territory.
The best solution i believe is to have eve pilots owning the districts and building surface infrastructure, timers relative to how long jumps from one district to another take even if its a mere 1 jump away, tough sht welcome to new Eden.
This would mean we would be mercs, eve pilots hand dust corps contracts to attack or defend and it would be great to gain standings with eve corps as well.
I know many wouldn't like this but it would connect the games better and bring way more meta, why the fk are merc corps starting 'transtellar empires' or owning land in the first place?
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
|
Fox Gaden
Bojo's School of the Trades
1611
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:You just need to designate starting locations where you are allowed to launch Clone Packs from. I would suggest that these starting points should either be your own district, or if you donGÇÖt own a district, then they should start from a high Sec system. How about adding the ability to start from a district you don't own so long as the district's owner gives permission? Then district owners can offer advantageous starting points for a price. Like getting permission to move your troops through a foreign country. Yes, that adds to the strategy. Not only do you have to be worrying about your neighbourGÇÖs attacking you, you need to worry about them colluding with the enemy.
Renier Gaden: CEO of Immortal Guides
Fox Gaden: TCO & TMO for BSotT
Crash Gaden: Operations Director, Immortal Guide
|
Fox Gaden
Bojo's School of the Trades
1611
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote: The best solution i believe is to have eve pilots owning the districts and building surface infrastructure, timers relative to how long jumps from one district to another take even if its a mere 1 jump away, tough sht welcome to new Eden.
This would mean we would be mercs, eve pilots hand dust corps contracts to attack or defend and it would be great to gain standings with eve corps as well.
I know many wouldn't like this but it would connect the games better and bring way more meta, why the fk are merc corps starting 'transtellar empires' or owning land in the first place?
Yes, that is a fundamental question. Do DUST players want to be more than just mercs? Do DUST players want to be able to build empires? Or are they satisfied with just fighting in other peopleGÇÖs wars.
Even if DUST players have the ability to build empires, there are still plenty of ways the game cane be setup to make being a mercenary viable. Many Corps bring in ringers now, but it is a bit tricky to set that up. It would be nice if there were some game mechanics which made hiring ringers (true mercenaries) easier. Such as being able to setup defence contracts with victory bonus and clone lose penalties. Have the contract only be available to Corporations with a positive standing to your Corp, and have the ability to set standing so you can just give standing to Corps you consider reputable. Make sure that members of the contracted Corp who have Terrestrial Combat Officer role are able to enter the contracted battle, so your own CorpGÇÖs management does not have to get directly involved.
Mercenary Corps with a good reputation would have access to a lot of contracts and could make good ISK. Mercenary Corps that double-cross their employers would lose standing and have trouble getting access to any contracts.
Renier Gaden: CEO of Immortal Guides
Fox Gaden: TCO & TMO for BSotT
Crash Gaden: Operations Director, Immortal Guide
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1511
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:TechMechMeds wrote: The best solution i believe is to have eve pilots owning the districts and building surface infrastructure, timers relative to how long jumps from one district to another take even if its a mere 1 jump away, tough sht welcome to new Eden.
This would mean we would be mercs, eve pilots hand dust corps contracts to attack or defend and it would be great to gain standings with eve corps as well.
I know many wouldn't like this but it would connect the games better and bring way more meta, why the fk are merc corps starting 'transtellar empires' or owning land in the first place?
Yes, that is a fundamental question. Do DUST players want to be more than just mercs? Do DUST players want to be able to build empires? Or are they satisfied with just fighting in other peopleGÇÖs wars. Even if DUST players have the ability to build empires, there are still plenty of ways the game cane be setup to make being a mercenary viable. Many Corps bring in ringers now, but it is a bit tricky to set that up. It would be nice if there were some game mechanics which made hiring ringers (true mercenaries) easier. Such as being able to setup defence contracts with victory bonus and clone lose penalties. Have the contract only be available to Corporations with a positive standing to your Corp, and have the ability to set standing so you can just give standing to Corps you consider reputable. Make sure that members of the contracted Corp who have Terrestrial Combat Officer role are able to enter the contracted battle, so your own CorpGÇÖs management does not have to get directly involved. Mercenary Corps with a good reputation would have access to a lot of contracts and could make good ISK. Mercenary Corps that double-cross their employers would lose standing and have trouble getting access to any contracts.
Don't take this an attack but your not thinking outside the box enough, what we have now is stagnant and does nothing to link the game in an decent way, pc needs to change a lot and I believe my idea so far as I know is the best option, if it was implemented alot would get sorted, eve pilots would actually be involved, planetary conquest would contain conquest, there'd be alot more meta, you could actually launch surprise attacks etc etc.
Edit: the standings you could gain with eve corps would be great as well, have a good think about it, honestly what we have now is pure rubbish and needs a massive overhaul.
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1511
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
And I was so damn excited about pc but the reality barely has anything to do with dusts development in the fact that its basically just organised matches with carebear timers on a map.
I am without doubt one of the most bitter about the state of pc.
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
|
Fox Gaden
Bojo's School of the Trades
1612
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
The timers are there in EVE too. They insure that the fights happen in a time when the defenders can muster and defend the district. Without them, how would a German Corp be able to defend against a Californian Corp? How would the Californian Corp prevent the German Corp from taking the district back when their prime time rolled around again. The timers also give the defending Corp time or organized to insure they have enough players online. Without the timers most battles in PC would be 16 v 5 on a good day. The timers insure that fights happen. There is nothing carebear about that. Without the timers, districts would be taken without any fighting most of the time. Only mega Corps with a world wide membership and around 2000 members would be able to hold districts consistently.
I agree that we need more DUST/EVE interaction, and I agree that EVE Planetary interaction should be integrated into the EVE/DUST relationship.
I donGÇÖt agree that only EVE pilots should be able to own territory. EVE pilots already have Sovereignty, the ability to clam entire solar systems. EVE pilots can control space. Let DUST players claim land on planets. If an EVE pilot wants to setup a factory on a planetGÇÖs surface for planetary interaction, they should have to contract a DUST Corp to defend it. But that should not replace Planetary Conquest. It should be a separate system of conquest.
The Corp which owns a district should be able to charge a tax on any EVE Planetary Interaction facilities operating in their district. The owner of a district should furthermore be able to initiate an attack on EVE Planetary Interaction facilities in their district if the owner has negative standing with the district owner.
I have done Planetary Interaction in EVE. I have blown up Planetary Operations Customs Offices (POCOGÇÖs) and spent considerable amounts of ISK to replace them, in order to avoid a 10% tax. I would definitely have paid for a Merc contract if I had been threatened with taxes on the ground. I would also be motivated to support friendly Corps, or DUST mercs from my own Corp, to maintain ownership of the district my PI was setup in.
If you are going to have EVE pilots move clones between planets, then you need to restrict it to a vulnerable ship type, such as the War Barge, that does not move all that fast and is easy to catch if not defended. If you could move clones in a cloaked ship, then distance would be as meaningless as it is now. I also think that gaining a beachhead on a planet should be a challenge, and that it should be a lot easier to attack another district on the same planet than it is to attack districts on another planet.
Renier Gaden: CEO of Immortal Guides
Fox Gaden: TCO & TMO for BSotT
Crash Gaden: Operations Director, Immortal Guide
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1511
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:The timers are there in EVE too. They insure that the fights happen in a time when the defenders can muster and defend the district. Without them, how would a German Corp be able to defend against a Californian Corp? How would the Californian Corp prevent the German Corp from taking the district back when their prime time rolled around again. The timers also give the defending Corp time or organized to insure they have enough players online. Without the timers most battles in PC would be 16 v 5 on a good day. The timers insure that fights happen. There is nothing carebear about that. Without the timers, districts would be taken without any fighting most of the time. Only mega Corps with a world wide membership and around 2000 members would be able to hold districts consistently.
I agree that we need more DUST/EVE interaction, and I agree that EVE Planetary interaction should be integrated into the EVE/DUST relationship.
I donGÇÖt agree that only EVE pilots should be able to own territory. EVE pilots already have Sovereignty, the ability to clam entire solar systems. EVE pilots can control space. Let DUST players claim land on planets. If an EVE pilot wants to setup a factory on a planetGÇÖs surface for planetary interaction, they should have to contract a DUST Corp to defend it. But that should not replace Planetary Conquest. It should be a separate system of conquest.
The Corp which owns a district should be able to charge a tax on any EVE Planetary Interaction facilities operating in their district. The owner of a district should furthermore be able to initiate an attack on EVE Planetary Interaction facilities in their district if the owner has negative standing with the district owner.
I have done Planetary Interaction in EVE. I have blown up Planetary Operations Customs Offices (POCOGÇÖs) and spent considerable amounts of ISK to replace them, in order to avoid a 10% tax. I would definitely have paid for a Merc contract if I had been threatened with taxes on the ground. I would also be motivated to support friendly Corps, or DUST mercs from my own Corp, to maintain ownership of the district my PI was setup in.
If you are going to have EVE pilots move clones between planets, then you need to restrict it to a vulnerable ship type, such as the War Barge, that does not move all that fast and is easy to catch if not defended. If you could move clones in a cloaked ship, then distance would be as meaningless as it is now. I also think that gaining a beachhead on a planet should be a challenge, and that it should be a lot easier to attack another district on the same planet than it is to attack districts on another planet.
That sounds really good, the bit about taxing eve players and the bit about attacking districts on planets being easier after the initial long wait/journey.
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
|
Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1686
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Anywhere first district attack.
If a corp has zero districts on a planet, it can attack anywhere.
Then they can only attack adjacent districts. If a corp has one District on a planet, it can only attack adjacent planets/systems.
Boom.
Seems sensible to me.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
|
|
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
235
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
In the future, an EVE pilot will need to transport clones in a warbarge to each district for PC battles. Happy?
EDIT: While enroute, the warbarge (and clones) will be destroyable by other EVE players. Once in orbit, the warbarge will then be able to be destroyed by planetary artillery. Checkmate
Who cares what some sniper has to say
|
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
536
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 00:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Anywhere first district attack.
If a corp has zero districts on a planet, it can attack anywhere.
Then they can only attack adjacent districts. If a corp has one District on a planet, it can only attack adjacent planets/systems.
Boom.
Seems sensible to me.
brb making an alt corp that attacks anywhere then hands the district off to my real corp.
"Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)"
GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
|
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
2121
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 02:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Should allocate planets where clone packs are purchased from, perhaps protected by CONCORD and Genolution. Then once a corporation purchases a pack from this planet they pay for transportation and clone attrition depending on where they want to attack. So basically these planets become a staging point for attacks for any corporation willing to pay the costs, instead of having clones spawning out of thin air to attack any district anywhere in Molden Heath.
Then when PC is expanded beyond Molden Heath, introduce these clone pack planets in the new systems but have much less of them, encouraging players to have to capture one district then expand slowly using district clones.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1522
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:In the future, an EVE pilot will need to transport clones in a warbarge to each district for PC battles. Happy?
EDIT: While enroute, the warbarge (and clones) will be destroyable by other EVE players. Once in orbit, the warbarge will then be able to be destroyed by planetary artillery. Checkmate
But if an eve corp hired you to attack or defend then they could protect it or easily pay for it to be protected.
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1522
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Should allocate planets where clone packs are purchased from, perhaps protected by CONCORD and Genolution. Then once a corporation purchases a pack from this planet they pay for transportation and clone attrition depending on where they want to attack. So basically these planets become a staging point for attacks for any corporation willing to pay the costs, instead of having clones spawning out of thin air to attack any district anywhere in Molden Heath.
Then when PC is expanded beyond Molden Heath, introduce these clone pack planets in the new systems but have much less of them, encouraging players to have to capture one district then expand slowly using district clones.
By that time eve backup will be almost a necessity, you know thats one of the key points dust is working towards don't you?
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |