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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
267
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Posted - 2013.11.25 01:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Instead they took advantage of the vehicle changes to screw over their customers.
...by offering them a full refund for the modules that are being replaced? Yeah, real screwed. I'll have to remember this the next time I go out and buy something, use it for an extended period of time and then demand that I receive more than I paid. I'm sure that'll go over real well.
Life is killing me.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
268
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Posted - 2013.11.25 01:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Everything Dies wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Instead they took advantage of the vehicle changes to screw over their customers. ...by offering them a full refund for the modules that are being replaced? Yeah, real screwed. I'll have to remember this the next time I go out and buy something, use it for an extended period of time and then demand that I receive more than I paid. I'm sure that'll go over real well. This whole scenario is more like a mandatory company recall that you must adhere to, but which they must compensate you for, not us going to them demanding an exchange/refund after a short period of time. In this situation they would have to offer a refund, store credit, or an exchange for an item of equal value, or a replacement of said item. CCP are only giving us one option instead of four that I have stated that consumers are entitled to.
Your four options:
1. Refund: What CCP is doing. They have no control over the actual "real" money that was spent to purchase the Aurum.
2. Store Credit: Providing you with the Aurum you purchased, and are now free to spend as you wish in the "store." No different than a refund.
3. Exchange: See above. You're free to exchange the Aurum you originally purchased for something else now.
4. Replacement: You can't replace discontinued items/goods. That's just the way of the world.
Look, I'm going to set aside my snark for a moment and speak matter-of-factly: CCP is no doubt following the legal advice that they were given. I highly doubt that a group of them got together one day and decided to **** off a portion of their user base just for sh*ts and giggles; rather, they recognized that the products to be removed are either no longer functioning as intended or were no longer needed in light of changes being made (that the company obviously feels were needed.) So, they are doing what they can (refunding the Aurum used to purchase the modules that have been removed) while adhering to EULA set forth by them and--more importantly--Sony. In an ideal world, CCP could simply refund customers the full cash value of the Aurum purchased...but they can't for legal reasons. So yes, I understand why you're upset, but CCP is beholden to the EULA just as much as you are and are free to pursue improving the game (as best they can) so long as they offer recompense to those that may be effected.
Life is killing me.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
268
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Posted - 2013.11.25 01:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Everything Dies wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Instead they took advantage of the vehicle changes to screw over their customers. ...by offering them a full refund for the modules that are being replaced? Yeah, real screwed. I'll have to remember this the next time I go out and buy something, use it for an extended period of time and then demand that I receive more than I paid. I'm sure that'll go over real well. Of what good is a refund, if you can't buy the items you wanted in the first place? BPOs are now irreplaceable, and since we now know that anything we purchase with aurum has no guarantee of any kind, the currency has lost its value. So yes, very screwed. An invaluable item was replaced with a flawed currency. Not a great exchange is it?
...that's why you READ the EULA before purchasing virtual goods/currency. There is no guarantee that the items you wish to buy will remain in the game--any game, for that matter--so the purchaser assumes that risk when going ahead with the purchase. Conversely, if you're wanting your money back and not Aurum, that's a matter between you and Sony, and not CCP.
Life is killing me.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
272
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Posted - 2013.11.25 16:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:
Oh, not another EULA moron.
Bullshit.
This isn't about legality.
Then what is it about? CCP just decided to upset their customers for the hell of it?
Chunky Munkey wrote:This is about CCP having no respect for their customers.
Oh, I get it now! CCP obviously doesn't respect the collection of players that use their product; I mean, how DARE they try to improve their game? A very small portion of their consumer base might get upset!
Chunky Munkey wrote:Legally CCP can turn this game into a cooking sim if they want to. They'd be f*cking idiots if they tried, but apparently you'd be okay with it.
In other words, I can't actually argue against your basic statement and will therefor throw out unrealistic "what ifs" that might support my view. Got it.
Chunky Munkey wrote:Sure you wasted all that time and money spent on it, but hey, it doesn't break the law!
You didn't waste any time/money; you chose to purchase Aurum--which can't be refunded--to purchase virtual items that, by accepting the EULA, you knew could be removed or altered at CCP's discretion.
Chunky Munkey wrote:I hope you don't manage your personal relationships like that, "hey honey, I slept with that girl at work, but I obeyed all traffic laws in the process, so you can't be mad at me"
Considering the fact that I've been with same woman for seventeen years now and married for twelve of those, I find your pathetic attempt at sarcasm to be highly amusing. Keep trying, though!
Life is killing me.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
272
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Posted - 2013.11.25 16:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:The thing is, it is not as easy there are laws protecting customers and it really doesen't matter whats in the EULA if the EULA violated these customer rights. So in general Customer Rights (by law) overrule the EULA.
...and you don't think that CCP consulted with legal experts before crafting their EULA? I can guarantee you that they knew the laws going into this, just as I can guarantee you that haven't broken any laws by removing aspects of the game that they feel are no longer needed (and providing compensation in doing so.)
Korvin Lomont wrote:So just imagine you go to a store that advertise and offer coffee BUT in that stores EULA stands he can serve you tea as well. Can he serve you tea? Sure. Is he allowed to do it? No. He advertised coffee and he has to serve you coffee if you buy coffee by serving tea you are put at a disproportional disadvantage.
Please go and read the fine print of damn near any sales contract. Unless you can prove that the agreement was made under duress, you have no legal standing if you voluntarily enter into a contract agreement.
Korvin Lomont wrote:You as customer could accept tea instead of coffee or you could take actions against this behavior either by contacting the store to find a solution or but taking legal actions against the store.
...and you'll find that many stores will work with you to remedy the situation to the best of their ability...just as CCP is doing, by offering to refund the Aurum that you spent on the items that will no longer be offered. As far as taking legal action, see my above response. If the store has made it clear that you may receive tea instead of coffee (and in this case, we'll argue that CCP has decided to replace the coffee with tea due to not believing that the coffee is of sufficient standard to serve customers) and you still make a purchase...well, you have ZERO legal standing.
Korvin Lomont wrote:Don't get me wrong I think the way CCP solved the current issue is fine, I just wanted to point out that just because something is written in the EULA you have to blindly follow the EULA...
And in the early years of EULAs, I'd agree with you. But as they have grown more and more common, EULAs are designed to withstand any conceivable legal challenge made against them.
Life is killing me.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.11.25 23:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:[
It's rather too often that people miss the point of an argument online, but you just managed some sort of record there.
1. I answered that in the next sentence. That one you were apparently able to quote, but not read.
2. They aren't improving the game if they're going back on their word as well as devaluing the currency they rely on to make money for the game.
3. This is what's called an "analogy", where a person uses a hypothetical scenario to demonstrate the points being discussed.
4. That doesn't contradict my use of the word "waste". Making a choice to do something has no bearing on whether or not the effort was wasted.
5. Again, analogy. The point being that legality has nothing to do with mutual respect. But that's just one of the many points you've missed here.
Keep clutching at those straws...eventually you may grasp enough to build a raft.
1. Your argument is completely nullified by your own admission that it isn't about legality; CCP is quite clearly on the right side of the law in this scenario. Which brings us to
2. They haven't gone back on their word. Their word is the EULA, that pesky document that so stubbornly flies in the face of all of your arguments. They reserve the right to make changes to the game whenever they so choose. And no, they aren't devaluing Aurum by removing these BPOs. The introduction of BPOs are what devalued the game's entire economy (you know, the whole "you're risking ISK every time you put on a suit or summon a vehicle."
3. No, what you've done is frame a straw man argument and declared yourself the victor, because obviously CCP is removing these obsolete modules in order to make a cooking game...which I'll apparently be happy to support, seeing as to how I don't share your views.
4. Opportunity cost. You have made the decision to spend real money on virtual currency with no guarantee that the item you want will remain in the game. The cost of this decision is what you would have otherwise have spent that money on. There is no "waste."
5. Analogies work much better when they're logically sound. Not surprising, as your concept of "mutual respect" is entirely a one-sided affair that refuses to consider the reasons why CCP felt this move was necessary, or that they're acting in good faith by offering a full refund to those directly affected by their decision.
5.
Life is killing me.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
280
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:
TL;DR. Anyway who is this CU NT and why should any of us care about his opinion. I sure as FUC K don't!
Aww, shucks, you do care!
By the way, how's the class-action suit going? *snicker*
Life is killing me.
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