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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
985
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Posted - 2013.11.25 01:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:
judging by your likes, your obvious a vet. you have all your cores covered and most probrually have speced into most guns so its almost an irrelevance for you as you have nothing else to skill into. in all likelihood you have already had a respec
You're missing the important problem here.
No respecs:
New stuff got released? Stuff got Rebalanced so that formerly underutilized stuff is now attractive?
Now's your chance. For once, the Vet is just as screwed as you are. Both of you have to get their new specialization quickly to get the advantage. Either can win, neither has a headstart (unless SP is reserved, which is a concious decision and not easily doably for everyone who isn't way above the "proto" threshold of his primary class.
Your earlier mistakes are quickly overcome and significant balance shifts can negate their negative consequences altoger, maybe even turn out usefull when those earlier mistakes happen to be part of the new FOTM.
Respecs:
New stuff got released? Stuff got Rebalanced so that formerly underutilized stuff is now attractive?
Now you can switch from one underskilled role to another without any second thought... and be still weaker than the vet who can and will do the same, except that he's still/again proto ready while you're not. You have already lost and will keep losing until you reach the "max any given role" level.
You can correct your mistakes and squeeze a few % out of your fit but so can the vet. If the new FOTM happens to be more SP intensive than the previous then you are screwed even more as a few more mil SP don't make a difference for vets. But for you they could mean weeks, months of playing.
Not even mentioning the p2w implications. No need to.
Mac is right btw. This subject is dead. Really....really... dead.
Use the search function For my name and Cross Atu aswell for some more insight on this.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
985
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Posted - 2013.11.25 02:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
GVGMODE wrote:
I support paid respecs because at some point Dust 514 project will need to be financially suficient to support itself and it is a move in the right direction that will bring:
a) Replay value to the game
b) Increase the purchase of Aurum
c) Show CCP that Dust can be lucrative and that it is a good idea to develop it further from/out of PS3
d) It would allow CCP to identify unbalanced scenarios as some players might concentrate on a specific build
BUT, there must be a limit of how many times a player is allowed to do a respec per year.
a) Is a double bladed sword. Yes being able to change things up a little can freshen the game up significantly. But this also means that you run through the content much quicker. There's no magic about new additions when specing into it requires no commitment whatsoever. It's just *ding* respec => play two months => "see ya after the cooldown".
b) Might or might not be true. Respecs directly cannibalize the market for boosters. This gets worse the older the character gets as the usefullness of respecs scales directly with your total SP whereas the boosters' does not.
Also, and i am of the impression that the CPM agrees with me on this to some extent: Until CCP has considered, tested and exhausted the possibilities of "ethical" micro transactions such as vanity, visuals and premium corp features that don't compromise existing game mechanics, i will be very critical of the notion that we need typical borderline p2w features to support the game. It just seems like the easy way out.
c) Similar to b). More money is good, but respecs should not be the first direction to look at.
d) It certainly would show minor balance issues so CCP can fix them. But it does this by simply amplifying the underlying issue. You'd find issues that wouldn't be apparent without respecs quite simply because they wouldn't be a problem in an environment where spending SP needs to be balanced with the expected benefit. I'm not convinced that the overall cost of balancing would change significantly for that reason.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:
personally i believe that
A) vets had a respec so they could put the focus on SP from their learning experience of what suits them, all those wasted SP were re invested to make their toons stronger.
b)a new/newer player has a lot more to worry about than just what is FOTM suit or gun wise. they have a lot more core skills which need to be invested in. saying that it becomes a level playing field is just wrong on so many levels. at my current level i am putting probably about 75% of my SP's into passive skills + mods and then the remaining 25% i spoil myself on guns and suits. if you have maxed out your cores and some suits and guns you will be able to stockpile SP's - if you haven't you can put 100% of your SP's into that item vs a much lower % for the newer player.
you have your perspective - also you have had a respec in the past. if i do not agree with your view point then it does not make make wrong.
A)That is true but most of those vets have long surpassed the point at which this would have made any difference. Some should have maxed a good portion of their second profession profession by now. It doesn't explain why a single respec, say 1-3 months after the first login or after 2-5m SP spent wouldn't alleviate this just as well if the learning is the main issue here.
B)Core skills actually eluded my mind for a moment so that's a very good point. The thing, though, is that as stated in A) Those who have been around to get a respec should have at least 20m+ by now anyway. Their core skills are maxed because they've played for almost half a year now, not because they could regain a few weeks worth of SP through those respecs. Desired mods can change over time aswell ( reppers/rechargers with low TTK ) so once you got those core skills reasonably high, my example starts to apply again.
Also, i think that the passive tree should be put under some intensive scrutiny before thinking about circumventing the SP system. In fact: In EVE, i can use mods that are 5-15% weaker if i lack just a little pg/cpu. In dust i lose 50% outright or invest weeks of SP for just 1% more pg. In EVE there's a fallacy i refer to as the "all V argument", meaning that you supposedly need all relevant skills maxed to compete anywhere, which is rarely true - up there. I'd agree that it's not so much of a fallacy here and that this might be an issue.
Wouldn't you agree that adding more intermediate module versions that allow you to lessen the loss in performance in tight fits would help a great deal?
To the last part: At no point did a try to come along as a smartass so i apologize if it felt that way. I just think that the skilltree is a very good progression system that ought not to be tempered with,as i think (and tried to argue) most of it's issues caused by it are either limited in duration, fixable by other means or simply part of what it's supposed to do.
There's no point in having the tree in the game when the next thing CCP does is put in mechanics that void it of any tangible consequence.
One last thing. I'm around 8M SP, almost half of which i withheld to be prepared for the new guns and i din't use the optional respec (the release one, i had no choice on and didn't change my general fit at all). Many "anti respec" dudes are in a similar situation.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
995
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:
I specced into AR's because there was no Caldari weapon out. I want my points back for Rail Rifles. Is that really so wrong[...]
Of course not. I've suggested a rule that would allow players to relocate SP from one racial variant to another, if that variant is new to the game once per account/character (bleh, details. thoughrough discussions are buried in my posting history).
The reason i'd support that is not that don't agree with saving SP for new additions (i'm saving myself) or that i don't like using "second choice" (i use what's there, i'm fine) but that i find racial symmetry (every weapon/suit module is represented by all races applicable) to be important for the game for balance, economy (player market) and lore reasons.
Full respecs on every new release will end up just like the last two. The release one brought duvolle killerbees (callogi), the second one added some more bees, this time with flaylocks.
CCP called respecs disruptive for the commutiy and for [ccp] i wholehartedly agree to this notion from personal experience.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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