DUST Search - TTK. What is the sweet spot?

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

I think a better question would be how long should the TTK be for a certain number of hitpoints.

Like starter or whatever.

I would be in favor of like each HP be worth, on average, 0.00333 seconds when weighed against the damage standard in game(maxed out with dmg and at proto lvl). At this point that would be the Assault rifle. If we used this simple equation as the baseline;

1200 HP = 4 seconds of continuous AR fire
600 HP = 2 seconds of continuous AR fire
400 HP = 1.333 seconds of continuous AR fire

This would also make plates and shields work out to:

Plates (no skills):
Basic: +0.28 seconds
Adv: +0.37 seconds
Proto: +0.45 seconds

Shield (no skills)
Basic: 0.07 seconds
ADV: 0.1 seconds
Proto: 0.2 seconds

Thats my 2 cents

EDIT: I just realized that formatting the plates/extenders like this shows how bad shield extenders are next to plates.

Also, the way things are right now, the AR does roughly double that damage (duovolle+dmg mods is around 650DPS).

EDIT 2:
Wow I just realized that @ around 650 DPS a standard shield extender buys you around 0.03. Yes 30 milliseconds.

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Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 912	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:41:00 - [1] - Quote I think the TTK on Dust is far too low right now. Many others seem to share my opinion on the matter, and would like to see TTK return to a higher level. We have what appears to be 3 main reasons we would like TTK to increase. It doesn't feel good to die quickly. People don't like to feel like they had no chance at retaliating against an enemy. Fittings have less meaning when TTK is so low. Right now it seems that everyone is brick tanking all of their suits to increase their own TTK, or using damage mods to counter brick tanking. A lot of us stuck with Dust because it wasn't a twitch shooter. Many people don't like twitch shooters such as the CoD and Battlefield series. Dust offered an alternative that had higher TTKs for many people. My question is "How long should TTK be?". I personally think it should be somewhere around 1-2 seconds to kill a light frame, 2-3 seconds to kill a medium frame, and 4-5 seconds to kill a heavy frame. Discuss. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10606	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:43:00 - [2] - Quote somewhere between 0.5 and 3 seconds... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 912	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:44:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: somewhere between 0.5 and 3 seconds... That's really vague. Care to elaborate? [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
DR FEB The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 66	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:45:00 - [4] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: My question is "How long should TTK be?". I personally think it should be somewhere around 1-2 seconds to kill a light frame, 2-3 seconds to kill a medium frame, and 4-5 seconds to kill a heavy frame. if this is the ttk for a prototype weapon then I agree but there will always be damage mods and prof.V I am giving out 35 million isk to the first who finds me in a battle and gives me ammo,melees me and shoots me twice.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 912	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:49:00 - [5] - Quote DR FEB wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: My question is "How long should TTK be?". I personally think it should be somewhere around 1-2 seconds to kill a light frame, 2-3 seconds to kill a medium frame, and 4-5 seconds to kill a heavy frame. if this is the ttk for a prototype weapon then I agree but there will always be damage mods and prof.V This is why I think Damage mods need to be changed into other things, such as Magazine Extensions, Heat Sinks, and Recoil Stabilizers. I also think Proficiency Skills shouldn't give a direct damage bonus, but should affect another aspect of the weapon instead. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
DR FEB The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 66	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:51:00 - [6] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: This is why I think Damage mods need to be changed into other things, such as Magazine Extensions, Heat Sinks, and Recoil Stabilizers. I also think Proficiency Skills shouldn't give a direct damage bonus, but should affect another aspect of the weapon instead. please develop I am giving out 35 million isk to the first who finds me in a battle and gives me ammo,melees me and shoots me twice.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10606	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:56:00 - [7] - Quote Well 3 seconds of a fully automatic firing just seems dunno odd. I mean future and all you'd think weapons would keep up to some degree and 3 seconds of tracking is a bit too much to ask for. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Oswald Rehnquist 662	Posted - 2013.11.24 09:57:00 - [8] - Quote TTK is only an issue with certain weapons, pretending otherwise is disingenuous Sniper, shotgun, nova knives, plasma cannons, etc are examples of a few weapons which probably don't need a hit to their current TTK, the current skill level combine with current modes are barely adequate as it is. The real balancing act is getting the popular out of control weapons in line, which is never going to gain much support. I feel most would rather break the rest of the weapons into uselessness to keep the dominance and get the TTK they want, when in reality its the very dominate weapons that will probably need specialize attention to keep them effective but balanced at the same time. Below 28 dB
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 912	Posted - 2013.11.24 10:02:00 - [9] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: TTK is only an issue with certain weapons, pretending otherwise is disingenuous Sniper, shotgun, nova knives, plasma cannons, etc are examples of a few weapons which probably don't need a hit to their current TTK, the current skill level combine with current modes are barely adequate as it is. The real balancing act is getting the popular out of control weapons in line, which is never going to gain much support. I feel most would rather break the rest of the weapons into uselessness to keep the dominance and get the TTK they want, when in reality its the very dominate weapons that will probably need specialize attention to keep them effective but balanced at the same time. Well obviously alpha-damage weapons wouldn't be touched. They would and should always kill fast. The Sniper Rifle I have a different opinion on completely. That thing needs to be changed in a big way I think. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 230	Posted - 2013.11.24 10:05:00 - [10] - Quote I think a better question would be how long should the TTK be for a certain number of hitpoints. Like starter or whatever. I would be in favor of like each HP be worth, on average, 0.00333 seconds when weighed against the damage standard in game(maxed out with dmg and at proto lvl). At this point that would be the Assault rifle. If we used this simple equation as the baseline; 1200 HP = 4 seconds of continuous AR fire 600 HP = 2 seconds of continuous AR fire 400 HP = 1.333 seconds of continuous AR fire This would also make plates and shields work out to: Plates (no skills): Basic: +0.28 seconds Adv: +0.37 seconds Proto: +0.45 seconds Shield (no skills) Basic: 0.07 seconds ADV: 0.1 seconds Proto: 0.2 seconds Thats my 2 cents EDIT: I just realized that formatting the plates/extenders like this shows how bad shield extenders are next to plates. an easy fix to Matchmaking

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 913	Posted - 2013.11.24 10:13:00 - [11] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think a better question would be how long should the TTK be for a certain number of hitpoints. Like starter or whatever. I would be in favor of like each HP be worth, on average, 0.00333 seconds when weighed against the damage standard in game(maxed out with dmg and at proto lvl). At this point that would be the Assault rifle. If we used this simple equation as the baseline; 1200 HP = 4 seconds of continuous AR fire 600 HP = 2 seconds of continuous AR fire 400 HP = 1.333 seconds of continuous AR fire This would also make plates and shields work out to: Plates (no skills): Basic: +0.28 seconds Adv: +0.37 seconds Proto: +0.45 seconds Shield (no skills) Basic: 0.07 seconds ADV: 0.1 seconds Proto: 0.2 seconds Thats my 2 cents EDIT: I just realized that formatting the plates/extenders like this shows how bad shield extenders are next to plates. Also, the way things are right now, the AR does roughly double that damage (duovolle+dmg mods is around 650DPS). EDIT 2: Wow I just realized that @ around 650 DPS a standard shield extender buys you around 0.03. Yes 30 milliseconds. I was going to include something like this, but I didn't want my opinion to take up the majority of the OP. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 30	Posted - 2013.11.24 11:42:00 - [12] - Quote I'm not much of a dropsuit user, I love vehicles. But, I do play dropsuits every once in a while and I had a thought: Why not try to find a good TTK by changing some of the handling characteristics of weapons? I don't have any points in AR, I just use my Toxin or Exile, and still they are rock steady when aimed down the sights firing on full auto. I mean, I have to fire like 40 rounds before my gun starts actually recoiling, and even then it seems they retain laser like accuracy. I know it's the future and all but I think I read somewhere that the dropsuits were required to fire weapons like ARs, Mass Drivers, and even SMGs. It said it was because without them you would break your arm or the recoil would be so extreme it would make the weapons impractical. Why not add a little bit of this, make recoil on weapons larger, add a little bit of spread when aimed down sights. You could change the the prof skills for a lot of these weapons to reducing recoil or making fully automatic aimed fire more accurate. Plus, it seems most of the balancing issues with infantry weapons revolves around damage, range, or RoF, but by adding these to light weapons it would give CCP new methods to keep things balanced.
Jason Pearson 3130	Posted - 2013.11.24 12:44:00 - [13] - Quote Obviously, the time to kill should be like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjYn5ZflS0 King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 923	Posted - 2013.11.24 12:49:00 - [14] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Obviously, the time to kill should be like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjYn5ZflS0 That was painful to watch. It was taking them like 10 seconds to kill anyone... way too high for my tastes. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
Jason Pearson 3130	Posted - 2013.11.24 12:53:00 - [15] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Obviously, the time to kill should be like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjYn5ZflS0 That was painful to watch. It was taking them like 10 seconds to kill anyone... way too high for my tastes. So not that high then.. :( Really it's quite fast to kill people, but erm, quickslots and medikits.. xD King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 334	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:05:00 - [16] - Quote I take a different approach to this...I'm looking for subjective feel. How is a proto suit and complex defensive mods supposed to feel? What advantage should that give you over standard offensive equipment? What's the inverse for proto weapons? The point made earlier about TTK making fittings irrelevant is huge. There is no reason to invest SP in proto suits or complex mods at all. My proposal... 1) remove weapon damage as skill. Damage mods should get he only way to increase raw damage. 2) remove the 10% across the board damage buff that was required prior to the hit detection fix. 3) see if that works.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1700	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:37:00 - [17] - Quote Longer than it is now, somewhere along the lines of your suggestions. When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 1025	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:52:00 - [18] - Quote I'm not sure what the sweet spot for TTK is, I do know CCP don't understand the issue at all, their choices are to increase HP amounts, which does nothing but makes the automatic weapons and inacurate weapons strive, hilst weapons that need accuracy are hurt by it, snipers do lack luster damage, scrambler pistols, always have need accurate shooting, but now its almost crucial to land headshots, because the other guy is sure to be rocking a gek/duvlol/scr/ascr which require nothing other than pinning the trigger, no aiming, no skill just blind fire. This is why currently the game is not fun, if its not a form of light auto/semi auto rifle, its a core locus grenade, another thing that has ****** up damage. MLT variant of the locus grenade does 400 damage with 6m radius, thats enough to ohk a shield based suit with just over 700 ehp? pathetic. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1316	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:02:00 - [19] - Quote I think it should be brought back to where it was pre 1.6, before the hit detection was fixed. This only applies to a select amount of weapons: ar, scr and smg Fixing the issue by increasing hp would only break all the other weapons and render them unusable "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
LOADED'HORN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 49	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:15:00 - [20] - Quote All I can say is the TTK issue really sucks. I do not like this .5 seconds to die bullshit. I don't want to play this tweaker shooter anymore because of this. CCP must dial back the 10% added on a while back. I know the lag is less now for most. Please Devs, break the game in the other f@(&ing direction.



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