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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
202
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Posted - 2013.11.21 22:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's alot of talk of nerfing logistics, but all that will do is make our precious healz and ammo dwindle.
The best idea I've heard is make logies sidearm only which I don't really like because it adds more restrictions to the game which shouldn't be done (and it also wouldn't make much of a difference because sidearms are crazy powerful), if anything the suits should become more flexible and capable. So instead of only giving logies a sidearm, how about giving them an option between having only a light weapon or having a sidearm and some kind of support weapon. This is of course provided that sidearms and light weapons have a bigger gap between them because I've been running logi with an smg since the open beta started and it's just as good as good as any primary weapon, better in my opinion.
So what should this new weapon type be? Iunno, anything that can support the suit's longevity, buff the theoretically nerfed sidearm, hinder other suits, etc. Defensive drones might be be an option, maybe an emp pulse to fry someone's shields or make their guns overheat or jam, something that increases your rate of fire, maybe an air cannon that blows back troops and flips cars, something like an electromagnet that deflects some bullets (obviously it should be something different because this wouldn't be able to deflect lazorz or plasma which half of the the weapons use)
You get the idea, doesn't have to even be a "gun", probably closer to an active module, could just tap the weapon switching button to activate it. The basic trend here is that none of these are really lethal on their own but there should definitely be some unconventional warfare introduced, any more ideas? |
Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
526
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Posted - 2013.11.21 22:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not sure where you are going with this, do you have something specific in mind? Your post seems rather ...chaotic. I can, as a logi already use either a Light weapon or a Sidearm so...
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
202
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
The idea is basically a support weapon or tool, used in conjunction with a sidearm if we're going with the "logies should only be able to use sidearms" route to make up for the restrictions that would be put on it if it couldn't use light weapons. People are complaining that the logi suit isn't a defensive support suit as it's supposed to be and it still has heavy offensive capabilities that basically make it more useful than any other suit.
I'd like to see the logi become more about defense and team support and less offense but I don't want them to be useless when it comes to getting kills which is what some people seem to want just so the assault suit has a purpose. |
Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
526
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
I added to my post please check above
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4211
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:There's alot of talk of nerfing logistics, but all that will do is make our precious healz and ammo dwindle.
The best idea I've heard is make logies sidearm only which I don't really like because it adds more restrictions to the game which shouldn't be done (and it also wouldn't make much of a difference because sidearms are crazy powerful), if anything the suits should become more flexible and capable. So instead of only giving logies a sidearm, how about giving them an option between having only a light weapon or having a sidearm and some kind of support weapon. This is of course provided that sidearms and light weapons have a bigger gap between them because I've been running logi with an smg since the open beta started and it's just as good as good as any primary weapon, better in my opinion.
So what should this new weapon type be? Iunno, anything that can support the suit's longevity, buff the theoretically nerfed sidearm, hinder other suits, etc. Defensive drones might be be an option, maybe an emp pulse to fry someone's shields or make their guns overheat or jam, something that increases your rate of fire, maybe an air cannon that blows back troops and flips cars, something like an electromagnet that deflects some bullets (obviously it should be something different because this wouldn't be able to deflect lazorz or plasma which half of the the weapons use)
You get the idea, doesn't have to even be a "gun", probably closer to an active module, could just tap the weapon switching button to activate it. The basic trend here is that none of these are really lethal on their own but there should definitely be some unconventional warfare introduced, any more ideas?
Carbines...but EWAR is also something logis need to do in the future.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
202
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ya got it all wrong, the only reason I put this up is because there's so many people saying logies are OP and need a nerf and all I've heard is "sidearm only" and "less mod slots" and it's all crap. I understand that removing threats, aka getting kills, is just another part of supporting your team, the problem is that people seem to think that the suit has access to the same offensive capabilities as everyone else and it shouldn't because we can do so much else for the team and there's no point to use those other suits.
As you should know, in this game if enough people whine about something they will get what they want, I'm trying to prevent that effect from screwing over the logi by offering alternatives, the idea wasn't to have logies only use a non lethal support gun it was to have this tool alongside your gun so that you could still defense yourself. Im all for making the logi a more defensive suit but these people apparently think that that involves making the suit not able to defend itself at all and just rely on teammates to do the work. |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
202
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Look, there are alot of people complaining about the logi and we all know why, how would you address their concerns without screwing over the suit past the point where it can be used comfortably? I'd rather just see the other suits branch off into their niche; all of the suits have equal capacity to kill, that's all they can do, the only one that's really unique is the logi, and I guess the heavy but there's only 1 good heavy weapon.
I would really like to ask the question "how do we set other suits apart from each other besides reconfiguring base stats" instead of "how do we nerf the logi" but really how much has anyone proposed on the subject? There isn't even any good ideas for the latter question. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7181
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Posted - 2013.11.22 00:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Creating a set of "logi weapons" would take over 6 months given how long it takes to deliver new content. Changing bonuses is more sensible. Even without balance issues, bonus changes would still be needed. Bonuses are a mess right now: Assault shield recharge bonus is useless for the armor-based Gallente assault
Caldari assault gets a shield extender HP bonus, something like that makes more sense for a heavy.
Minmatar scout melee+bonus is still weaker than a medium frame melee even when maxed out
Sentinel bonus is useless for current heavy weapons without feedback damage & only useful if you're careless enough to overheat.
Logi bonuses seem completely random and arbitrary, they should have bonuses to equipment fitting instead of repairs.
(Fix TTK first) give assaults 1% damage bonus per level as the general assault bonus. Doing more damage reinforces the role of the assault. Give each assault bonuses to their specific race's weaponry. Minmatar could get explosive/projectile clip size, Amarr assault keeps laser bonus, Caldari could get more effective range for railgun weapons, etc. Bam! now assaults are better at assaulting.
Give logi bonuses to equipment. General logi bonus should be PG/CPU reduction of equipment, and each logi could have an equipment related racial bonus.
More details CLICK HERE.
Logis would still have less speed, less stamina, less base shields (meaning depending on how you use the extra low slot, they may have less HP than assaults), and less shield recharge. Also having no sidearm is a pretty big deal if you're using a weapon like the plasma cannon, swarm launcher, laser rifle, or sniper rifle.
The only benefit a logi would have when assaulting is PG/CPU, and that extra low slot. Everything else would be better on assault suits when assaulting.
Logis would still be able to tank more, making them good at defense, but less agile, and bonuses would make them more geared towards equipment use. Assaults would be more offense oriented with damage and weapon bonuses, and more agile, and versatile in combat because of sidearm.
I'm willing to bet bonus changes are going to happen anyway based on some things CCP said about bonuses a long while ago, and this, so might as well use it as a way of balancing and enforcing roles.
I also reject the premise that logis should not be good at killing, its just that assaults need to be better since its their actual job. I'm also getting sick of seeing "sidearm only logis", "carbines for logis", and whatever this is (essentially the carbine idea, but with non-specific ideas for weapons).
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
203
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Posted - 2013.11.22 00:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aaaaaaaand SOLD! to the guy with the link.
Quit whining about suits and read that post, eventually I'm hoping for a total re-balance because the guns right now are so powerful and combined with aim assist there's not really a point to using anything that isn't damage or defense tanked, really limits the capabilities and usefulness of any other module. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
154
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
To quote my doc from my time in the Marines, "The best way I can help you guys out on the battlefield is to kill the enemy."
Logis need to kill. Simple as that. However, they are indeed stepping on assault's toes. Therefore, I propose:
Remove 10% buff from all weapons Make assault bonus 2% increased damage per level instead of shield recharge Require logis to fill equipment slots in addition to weapon slots
Logos have to at least carry logi equipment, assaults deal more damage than logis as they should be, and logis don't have to lose out on much. Everybody goes home happy.
Well, less annoyed at least. |
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FAKIR REDETTa
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.11.22 02:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:There's alot of talk of nerfing logistics, but all that will do is make our precious healz and ammo dwindle.
The best idea I've heard is make logies sidearm only which I don't really like because it adds more restrictions to the game which shouldn't be done (and it also wouldn't make much of a difference because sidearms are crazy powerful), if anything the suits should become more flexible and capable. So instead of only giving logies a sidearm, how about giving them an option between having only a light weapon or having a sidearm and some kind of support weapon. This is of course provided that sidearms and light weapons have a bigger gap between them because I've been running logi with an smg since the open beta started and it's just as good as good as any primary weapon, better in my opinion.
So what should this new weapon type be? Iunno, anything that can support the suit's longevity, buff the theoretically nerfed sidearm, hinder other suits, etc. Defensive drones might be be an option, maybe an emp pulse to fry someone's shields or make their guns overheat or jam, something that increases your rate of fire, maybe an air cannon that blows back troops and flips cars, something like an electromagnet that deflects some bullets (obviously it should be something different because this wouldn't be able to deflect lazorz or plasma which half of the the weapons use)
You get the idea, doesn't have to even be a "gun", probably closer to an active module, could just tap the weapon switching button to activate it. The basic trend here is that none of these are really lethal on their own but there should definitely be some unconventional warfare introduced, any more ideas? no |
medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
370
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Posted - 2013.11.22 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:To quote my doc from my time in the Marines, "The best way I can help you guys out on the battlefield is to kill the enemy."
Logis need to kill. Simple as that. However, they are indeed stepping on assault's toes. Therefore, I propose:
Remove 10% buff from all weapons Make assault bonus 2% increased damage per level instead of shield recharge Require logis to fill equipment slots in addition to weapon slots
Logos have to at least carry logi equipment, assaults deal more damage than logis as they should be, and logis don't have to lose out on much. Everybody goes home happy.
Well, less annoyed at least. 2% per level is too much. How about 1% per level instead?
Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
1741
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Posted - 2013.11.22 02:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
No.
Just remove Dmg mods and make any logi fitting invalid if it has more than 1 unfilled equipment slot.
Boom, no more .2 seconds ttk
Drastically reduce the amount of slayer logis.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
I'll take your Iskies
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 03:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:To quote my doc from my time in the Marines, "The best way I can help you guys out on the battlefield is to kill the enemy."
Logis need to kill. Simple as that. However, they are indeed stepping on assault's toes. Therefore, I propose:
Remove 10% buff from all weapons Make assault bonus 2% increased damage per level instead of shield recharge Require logis to fill equipment slots in addition to weapon slots
Logos have to at least carry logi equipment, assaults deal more damage than logis as they should be, and logis don't have to lose out on much. Everybody goes home happy.
Well, less annoyed at least. 2% per level is too much. How about 1% per level instead? I can wiggle on this. 1% wouldn't be bad, but 2% would give them back their 10% buff, for the cost of assault 5
Just please... don't nerf logis into the ground. Don't mess with my free passive rep, and just make me have to fill all my equipment slots. PLEASE CCP. |
SteelheadPep
Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords
1
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Posted - 2013.11.22 13:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Have been trying to do damage control on these witch hunt threads.Responded numerous times to these ill conceived rantings, that gimped the Cal logic suit and looks like your trying to finish the job by making support logis nonexistent. Solution #235 logistic suits cannot fit damage mod, but increase the stacking penalty and/or CPU/PG requirements on all damage mods. Its only fair that you get to take a bite out of the s**t sandwich with the rest of us! Tastes good Hmmmmmm. |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
206
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Posted - 2013.11.22 16:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wrong, check the rest of the comments. |
Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
139
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 17:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:There's alot of talk of nerfing logistics, but all that will do is make our precious healz and ammo dwindle.
The best idea I've heard is make logies sidearm only which I don't really like because it adds more restrictions to the game which shouldn't be done (and it also wouldn't make much of a difference because sidearms are crazy powerful), if anything the suits should become more flexible and capable. So instead of only giving logies a sidearm, how about giving them an option between having only a light weapon or having a sidearm and some kind of support weapon. This is of course provided that sidearms and light weapons have a bigger gap between them because I've been running logi with an smg since the open beta started and it's just as good as good as any primary weapon, better in my opinion.
So what should this new weapon type be? Iunno, anything that can support the suit's longevity, buff the theoretically nerfed sidearm, hinder other suits, etc. Defensive drones might be be an option, maybe an emp pulse to fry someone's shields or make their guns overheat or jam, something that increases your rate of fire, maybe an air cannon that blows back troops and flips cars, something like an electromagnet that deflects some bullets (obviously it should be something different because this wouldn't be able to deflect lazorz or plasma which half of the the weapons use)
You get the idea, doesn't have to even be a "gun", probably closer to an active module, could just tap the weapon switching button to activate it. The basic trend here is that none of these are really lethal on their own but there should definitely be some unconventional warfare introduced, any more ideas?
In fact i already got some ideas on this. Some defensive turrets (deployable) (new types weapons only for logi) that is deployable Reparable and provide some shield cover. Auto-regen themselves when destroy. to be able to put a new one when the first is destroy. Each races could have his variants. (Amarr : laser etcetc) And each races could have variants (less firepower but more ehp etcetc...) Like this : http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/Ruin_EX/Misc/SabreTurrets.jpg Or this : http://images.wikia.com/borderlands/images/9/99/Turret_S01.png Can provide ammo to close by teammates / shield bubbles (Caldari) repair armor and provide a small wall to hide behind (amarr) : etcetc.....
Or little drones that shoot at the ennemy and/or can provide small shield to the Logi. (Like Killzone Shadow fall).
+ a sidearms. (For Amarr the turrets/drones regen twice faster when destroyed.) |
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