DUST Search - Content Progression: CCP's Goal?

R F Gyro wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

R F Gyro wrote:

My guess: Dust devs are in a holding pattern while the new top-bods thrash out strategy. We'll start to see that strategy emerge sometime in the new year.

Really hoping they start work on the Assault/Logistics balancing for 1.8/1.9

See I don't know if these kinds of concerns will get us very far. Even if there was balance, I don't know how deep experience would continue to be after a week, a month or a whole season of whatever 'balance' that we get. There needs to be something more than the continuous shooter/lobby matchups that we are getting continually. I'm not saying we don't need balance, but that a resource investment toward this balance will only buy so much time for them. The sandbox needs to be bigger, IMO.

But that's my point.

If 1.8 and 1.9 are part of the "holding pattern" then yes, they'll be about balance and bug fixing.

But hopefully, while that is happening management is getting the strategy finished and dev teams are starting to plan new features and content that fit with that strategy. The first we'll know of it will probably be a dev blog announcing what comes next after Uprising.

Of course, I could just be hopelessly optimistic and naive.

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Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1790	Posted - 2013.11.21 13:54:00 - [1] - Quote So I watched a pretty good video about CCP's core design theory about, according to their CEO, that "The Human Brain is the Platform" In it Hilmar Veigar Petursson explains that it is CCP's stated mission Quote: ...to create virtual worlds more meaningful than real life. It seems like a rather lofty vision. But I'm wondering how closely they are coming with DUST. If you watch the video, Hilmar describes a rather compelling instance in which a core real life value 'trust' becomes a real part of the game, Eve, that he is making. It causes such emotional conflict within himself, that he has to start asking himself pretty deep questions about why he wants to go on playing the game. He admits that CCP had built the Eve platform with a misguided content progression model in mind with the ability to upgrade from frigates all the way to battleships in about a year's worth of time. This assumed that this would be a core motivation to progress through the game... "Fly something bigger." What quickly became clear though was that what CCP could or did DESIGN as the content that could be progressed through, WAS NOT the content that the player did progress through (nor did they care to). While a player who starts in a frigate, may one day aspire to fly a titan, they can easily imigine being a crucial and effective member of whatever organization they join without ever flying in something more deadly than a battlecruiser. So I want to bring this same idea to Dust. Dust seems to have been built around a similarly misguided content progression model. It appears that the progression design is, "Play longer to get better suits" All this really amounts to experientially now, though, is just having a weapon, suit, toughness and survivability that is marginally more effective and significantly more expensive. The core content progression does not seem to progress your core experience. This could be a result of a lot of things. The sandbox may not be big enough yet. Players may not have enough tools to interact with each other. Potential social objectives may not be really meaningful in game. There could be many things that limit the feeling of 'new experience' that gets you to continue to log on. CCP needs to address this for the purpose of player retention and recruitment. If they mission is to create a meaningful virtual shooter world, then how can they accomplish that in a way that gets players to stay around. This impacts the way you will gain and exploit skill points. It impacts how you 'make a living' in the game. It should impact who you trust to play with. It should impact what you are thinking of trying to achieve next time you log in, next week, next month, and next year. If all you can achieve in terms of significance is 'land on another planet'. The experience will just feel too limited. However, if each player can really start to see the impact they have on the game, the game can survive and thrive.
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 792	Posted - 2013.11.21 14:00:00 - [2] - Quote solid thread as always beren +1 to bad ccp will never save dust
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1792	Posted - 2013.11.21 14:36:00 - [3] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: solid thread as always beren +1 to bad ccp will never save dust I don't think all is lost. I think the map design development trajectory has been a very clever thing. What it entails is that new content won't only be iterative to new experience, but it will compound on the experiences of what comes before it. Map modularity lets experiences vary widely based on how the cards are drawn at the beginning of the game. Players have to respond in a different way each time a new map is drawn. What players then need to do is realize that you can't force the same experience into each map. I think this a is a hidden and foolish frustration that many players are forcing on themselves. Many want to fight a CQC battle everywhere, and when their experience doesn't validate this, they complain. The feedback that tells them what they did wrong, isn't exactly there in Dust. What exists in Eve, and the ability to communicate well with other members of your corporation who can observe your actions, and correct it with a vested interest in seeing you improve.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1261	Posted - 2013.11.21 14:44:00 - [4] - Quote Have no fear. This kind of content is the entire reason DUST was written - the depth of our social/meta gameplay will easily equal EVE's and the two will multiply and ramify each other. The number of network connections, semi-fractal scaling, complexity and emergent behaviour will give network theorists Eulerian-quality nerdgasms of the loglogN kind(mostly where the goons are concerned). I support SP rollover.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 654	Posted - 2013.11.21 14:51:00 - [5] - Quote My guess: Dust devs are in a holding pattern while the new top-bods thrash out strategy. We'll start to see that strategy emerge sometime in the new year. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1795	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:01:00 - [6] - Quote Interestingly...rewatching the video...a notable (if not eloquent) quote emerged... "Death is a serious matter...you can own things. You can truly own them. And when you lose things it makes you feel things." Right now, you cannot deny that player's vested ownership of things are in pretty unpredictable state of flux. We are unsure of what our SP is getting or will get us. Also, death just doesn't seem so serious. For those that can afford the most expensive things, death has practically no meaning. For those just starting out, people just aren't seeming to have a rational fear/respect for this 'meaningful' mechanic behind the game.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3824	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:01:00 - [7] - Quote Sigh... So many high hopes for this game I had back in closed beta. But it's still just a lobby shooter with as much depth as a pool of sweat under a fat man's bicycle. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 3839	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:01:00 - [8] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: My guess: Dust devs are in a holding pattern while the new top-bods thrash out strategy. We'll start to see that strategy emerge sometime in the new year. Really hoping they start work on the Assault/Logistics balancing for 1.8/1.9 ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1795	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:07:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: R F Gyro wrote: My guess: Dust devs are in a holding pattern while the new top-bods thrash out strategy. We'll start to see that strategy emerge sometime in the new year. Really hoping they start work on the Assault/Logistics balancing for 1.8/1.9 See I don't know if these kinds of concerns will get us very far. Even if there was balance, I don't know how deep experience would continue to be after a week, a month or a whole season of whatever 'balance' that we get. There needs to be something more than the continuous shooter/lobby matchups that we are getting continually. I'm not saying we don't need balance, but that a resource investment toward this balance will only buy so much time for them. The sandbox needs to be bigger, IMO.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1586	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:07:00 - [10] - Quote Not enough sand in the box yet. CCP focused this year on making DUST a decent FPS. Maybe not the best, but Good. In 2014 they will be focusing on making it a better MMO, and that will make it more of a sand box.

R F Gyro Clones 4u 654	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:15:00 - [11] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: R F Gyro wrote: My guess: Dust devs are in a holding pattern while the new top-bods thrash out strategy. We'll start to see that strategy emerge sometime in the new year. Really hoping they start work on the Assault/Logistics balancing for 1.8/1.9 See I don't know if these kinds of concerns will get us very far. Even if there was balance, I don't know how deep experience would continue to be after a week, a month or a whole season of whatever 'balance' that we get. There needs to be something more than the continuous shooter/lobby matchups that we are getting continually. I'm not saying we don't need balance, but that a resource investment toward this balance will only buy so much time for them. The sandbox needs to be bigger, IMO. But that's my point. If 1.8 and 1.9 are part of the "holding pattern" then yes, they'll be about balance and bug fixing. But hopefully, while that is happening management is getting the strategy finished and dev teams are starting to plan new features and content that fit with that strategy. The first we'll know of it will probably be a dev blog announcing what comes next after Uprising. Of course, I could just be hopelessly optimistic and naive. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1261	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:19:00 - [12] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Not enough sand in the box yet. CCP focused this year on making DUST a decent FPS. Maybe not the best, but Good. In 2014 they will be focusing on making it a better MMO, and that will make it more of a sand box. And that was the correct prioritization, and there's still a healthy chunk of work to do on the core/network/rendering/optimization. But thankfully we've come to the point where it now makes sense to start filling out the basic FPS content and improving/expanding the game modes. I'm thinking two(maybe three to give Murphy his due) more monthly core/core content/core systems/optimization/balance patches and then the big-picture sandbox things will start evolving quickly. I support SP rollover.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 3841	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:55:00 - [13] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: R F Gyro wrote: My guess: Dust devs are in a holding pattern while the new top-bods thrash out strategy. We'll start to see that strategy emerge sometime in the new year. Really hoping they start work on the Assault/Logistics balancing for 1.8/1.9 See I don't know if these kinds of concerns will get us very far. Even if there was balance, I don't know how deep experience would continue to be after a week, a month or a whole season of whatever 'balance' that we get. There needs to be something more than the continuous shooter/lobby matchups that we are getting continually. I'm not saying we don't need balance, but that a resource investment toward this balance will only buy so much time for them. The sandbox needs to be bigger, IMO. But that's my point. If 1.8 and 1.9 are part of the "holding pattern" then yes, they'll be about balance and bug fixing. But hopefully, while that is happening management is getting the strategy finished and dev teams are starting to plan new features and content that fit with that strategy. The first we'll know of it will probably be a dev blog announcing what comes next after Uprising. Of course, I could just be hopelessly optimistic and naive. Balancing what we've already got isn't as hard as say, designing an entirely revamped Faction Warfare system on both Dust 514 and Eve Online. And sure, it's continuous and boring and all but honest to god it'd be a hell of a lot more bearable if I wasn't fighting master race Logi's with my broken arse assault suit. As far as the "holding pattern" I'm not even sure that's an accurate term to use but it's pretty close. We're getting new content with 1.7 for the first time since - hell, since we got Commandos. The graphics team must be bored out of the freaggin minds right now. Edit: Well I guess they've been working on the new maps.. Which is pretty cool.. Can't wait to see the Caldari Production Facility. ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:06:00 - [14] - Quote problem with dust is that there is only so many kinds of suits you can have in an fps game. in eve there are multiple frigates, cruisers, battleships that have their own unique feel and role whereas in an fps there isn't that many roles you can go to and so it comes down to weapons and equipment. I'm already running out of stuff i want to train (30.5m sp) because they don;t suit my playstyle and i'm basically waiting for the content i want (minny and gal heavies) but then once they come out i will have saved up so much sp i can just proto them out and i'm back to being stuck for something to train. take for example the combat rifle. by time dec 10 comes round i will have the 2.2m sp required to go from operation level 0 to prof 5 on the very first day! we need more basic models of the vehicles, hell even the basic racial heavy frames woudl be a start before bringing the sentinel/commando in. same with scouts. the same could be done with vehicles, just bring the models of the lavs, tanks and drop ships in so we have some variety. i could train into other suits but again i'm holding back because i don't want to go spend a bunch of sp getting proto caldari assault for the new heavies to come out a month later. atm i'm just struggling to find a reason to play after i cap out on a thursday/friday evening
R F Gyro Clones 4u 656	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:11:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Balancing what we've already got isn't as hard as say, designing an entirely revamped Faction Warfare system on both Dust 514 and Eve Online. And sure, it's continuous and boring and all but honest to god it'd be a hell of a lot more bearable if I wasn't fighting master race Logi's with my broken arse assault suit. As far as the "holding pattern" I'm not even sure that's an accurate term to use but it's pretty close. We're getting new content with 1.7 for the first time since - hell, since we got Commandos. The graphics team must be bored out of the freaggin minds right now. Edit: Well I guess they've been working on the new maps.. Which is pretty cool.. Can't wait to see the Caldari Production Facility. I suspect that new maps, sockets and racial weapons are the kind of thing that can be implemented without needing approval for compliance with a strategic vision. Your Faction Warfare example is a really good one for something that would, as would be PvE or nullsec sov warfare. I'm hoping for an epic senior dev blog in Q1 2014. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Thor McStrut Reckoners 417	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:53:00 - [16] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: This could be a result of a lot of things. The sandbox may not be big enough yet. Players may not have enough tools to interact with each other. Potential social objectives may not be really meaningful in game. This is the problem, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Or a year, or even two. Even with a solid FPS, the potential for this game won't be realized. One just has to look around and other games in this genre. The playerbase ebbs and flows. Only time will prove this game, this concept. CCP won't have it by 2014. They won't have it by 2015. I'm willing to bet, that in 2020, the players will be looking back in awe at how far Dust has come over the previous decade. And that they too will be waiting on a new content expansion to further deepen their in-game involvement.
Scheherazade VII 163	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:59:00 - [17] - Quote A solid FPS game is one which keeps you coming back, offering nothing whilst giving you everything. If you can unlock everything in a game and still play it, years on, same maps, same guns. That's a good game. And it's been done before. There is such a thing as being spoilt for choice! GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 3841	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:21:00 - [18] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: A solid FPS game is one which keeps you coming back, offering nothing whilst giving you everything. If you can unlock everything in a game and still play it, years on, same maps, same guns. That's a good game. And it's been done before. There is such a thing as being spoilt for choice! Only ones I can think of are Left 4 Dead and Killing Floor. I have Battlefield 3, a few Call of Duty games and Planetside 2 - can only tolerate them in small doses. ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^


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