DUST Search - Discussion about vehicle module BPO ax'ing

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Sigberct Amni wrote:

Seymor Krelborn wrote:

any owner of them will tell you

1. we still spend a lot of isk on gear

2. to be competitive you must still use proto and adv gear

3. we bought this gear to support ccp, but that doesn't mean we don't want or deserve the items we traded for that support

and anyone who ever earned their own money and bought something can tell you they wouldny appreciate the stuff you bought getting taken by anyone....

The problem CCP is running into is that there are a lot of players running BPO suits far more often than spending ISK on regular items. The reason, is to farm ISK for better gear.

This makes their whole economy difficult to balance. On top of that, early in the game's history, they sold BPO's for super dirt cheap. 100 AUR ea. for some items. They moved up the price to 15000 or so AUR but many players bought tens or hundreds of copies to resell later in a speculation move.

When the player market opens, if these things are sold, everyone will have access to free gear. If they lock the items down, they've screwed over a number of their playerbase. How many, only CCP knows. What should CCP do there? Continue balancing the economy around everyone having access to free gear? Tell the speculators to HTFU?

You already have access to free gear for farming ISK: the starter fits, they can't remove them because you would not be able to play any longer once you are broke. To be honest the current BPO's are merely better than militia gear.

And right now without a economy, without a market that can be influenced by BPO's a removal is simply not justified by any means.

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Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 207	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:09:00 - [1] - Quote Hmm. It's easy for me to point and laugh at all the angry about this but let's have a look at what's going on. What do BPOs represent to players? - Unlimited, resource free copies of a thing that normally costs ISK (time/effort) to acquire - Potential trade stock for other valuables with the introduction of player trading What did BPOs represent to CCP in the past? - Revenue stream for a new game - A weak item that players will eventually 'graduate' from Now that 'emergent gameplay' has happened and players are using them unintentionally: - An ISK economy balancing issue that players abuse to freely farm ISK - An issue of trust between CCP and players due to perceived 'bait-n-switch' tactics Altering the BPO to something that it isn't is a violation of player trust. Locking the originals to a player's inventory ruins CCP's much celebrated open player market ideals. Changing them to require a resources of some type lowers the value. Is removing the vehicle mods and refunding aurum okay? To some, it probably is. Others may have specifically bought aurum just for those mods and don't want the other stuff that's available. What is their recourse? Deal with it? HTFU? What about anyone who bought multiples to resell on the market later? Whatever CCP can or can't do legally isn't the big picture. It's player perception that matters. I mean, they would only mess up this badly involving real money once, right? Twice if you include the greed is good incident. A third time? Put yourselves in the shoes of those who bought into BPOs. They didn't know CCP would change their opinion on them. Most of assumed and trusted CCP to have this all balanced out in their grand scheme of things. So why do the buyers need to suffer for CCPs mistake? We've covered where we stand right now. Let's have a discussion about CCP's next move. Please leave the CCP or player bashing at the door. No big city lawyers in here either. Thanks!
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 545	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:16:00 - [2] - Quote Read this post CCP SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 14	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:16:00 - [3] - Quote I got it: Give us an ingame item of some sort that is like a voucher, and give it an option called AUR redeem. it would basically destroy the BPO, and make however much AUR it is worth. If we keep it however when the modules return, they are returned to the player.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1303	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:17:00 - [4] - Quote any owner of them will tell you 1. we still spend a lot of isk on gear 2. to be competitive you must still use proto and adv gear 3. we bought this gear to support ccp, but that doesn't mean we don't want or deserve the items we traded for that support and anyone who ever earned their own money and bought something can tell you they wouldny appreciate the stuff you bought getting taken by anyone.... SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!!
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 152	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:19:00 - [5] - Quote I only collected BPO.I dont even use them. Im an 85+ Mill ISK player that only runs ADV. BUT IF I START using them,is my right anyways... I WORKED several hours in my REAL life Job to pay for those stinkin BPOs....
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 265	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:23:00 - [6] - Quote I personally bought the Elite Pack almost exclusively for the LAV BPO. If CCP ever wants to take it from my inventory, I think 2 passive and 2 active 30 day Omega Boosters would be enough to make me happy. I don't just want the Aurum back, because there is no longer anything worth buying. If they want to just give me Aurum, I want the ability to sell it to other players for ISK.
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 209	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:26:00 - [7] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: any owner of them will tell you 1. we still spend a lot of isk on gear 2. to be competitive you must still use proto and adv gear 3. we bought this gear to support ccp, but that doesn't mean we don't want or deserve the items we traded for that support and anyone who ever earned their own money and bought something can tell you they wouldny appreciate the stuff you bought getting taken by anyone.... The problem CCP is running into is that there are a lot of players running BPO suits far more often than spending ISK on regular items. The reason, is to farm ISK for better gear. This makes their whole economy difficult to balance. On top of that, early in the game's history, they sold BPO's for super dirt cheap. 100 AUR ea. for some items. They moved up the price to 15000 or so AUR but many players bought tens or hundreds of copies to resell later in a speculation move. When the player market opens, if these things are sold, everyone will have access to free gear. If they lock the items down, they've screwed over a number of their playerbase. How many, only CCP knows. What should CCP do there? Continue balancing the economy around everyone having access to free gear? Tell the speculators to HTFU?
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 209	Posted - 2013.11.21 04:30:00 - [8] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: I personally bought the Elite Pack almost exclusively for the LAV BPO. If CCP ever wants to take it from my inventory, I think 2 passive and 2 active 30 day Omega Boosters would be enough to make me happy. I don't just want the Aurum back, because there is no longer anything worth buying. If they want to just give me Aurum, I want the ability to sell it to other players for ISK. This solution is great for you, but what about CCP? They have to make money as well. Giving away boosters and AUR might win them some PR points, but will it win them your future purchases? There's no guarantee there. Maybe if there is enough stink about this, the risk of players/revenue lost will make freebies worth it? Who gets to put numbers on this sort of thing and wow, am I glad to not be that guy.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1310	Posted - 2013.11.21 07:11:00 - [9] - Quote CCP, already has enough problems with player retention. why do they make these kind of problems for themselves? SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 240	Posted - 2013.11.21 09:23:00 - [10] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: any owner of them will tell you 1. we still spend a lot of isk on gear 2. to be competitive you must still use proto and adv gear 3. we bought this gear to support ccp, but that doesn't mean we don't want or deserve the items we traded for that support and anyone who ever earned their own money and bought something can tell you they wouldny appreciate the stuff you bought getting taken by anyone.... The problem CCP is running into is that there are a lot of players running BPO suits far more often than spending ISK on regular items. The reason, is to farm ISK for better gear. This makes their whole economy difficult to balance. On top of that, early in the game's history, they sold BPO's for super dirt cheap. 100 AUR ea. for some items. They moved up the price to 15000 or so AUR but many players bought tens or hundreds of copies to resell later in a speculation move. When the player market opens, if these things are sold, everyone will have access to free gear. If they lock the items down, they've screwed over a number of their playerbase. How many, only CCP knows. What should CCP do there? Continue balancing the economy around everyone having access to free gear? Tell the speculators to HTFU? You already have access to free gear for farming ISK: the starter fits, they can't remove them because you would not be able to play any longer once you are broke. To be honest the current BPO's are merely better than militia gear. And right now without a economy, without a market that can be influenced by BPO's a removal is simply not justified by any means.

xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.11.22 04:42:00 - [11] - Quote
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:14:00 - [12] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: any owner of them will tell you 1. we still spend a lot of isk on gear 2. to be competitive you must still use proto and adv gear 3. we bought this gear to support ccp, but that doesn't mean we don't want or deserve the items we traded for that support and anyone who ever earned their own money and bought something can tell you they wouldny appreciate the stuff you bought getting taken by anyone.... The problem CCP is running into is that there are a lot of players running BPO suits far more often than spending ISK on regular items. The reason, is to farm ISK for better gear. This makes their whole economy difficult to balance. On top of that, early in the game's history, they sold BPO's for super dirt cheap. 100 AUR ea. for some items. They moved up the price to 15000 or so AUR but many players bought tens or hundreds of copies to resell later in a speculation move. When the player market opens, if these things are sold, everyone will have access to free gear. If they lock the items down, they've screwed over a number of their playerbase. How many, only CCP knows. What should CCP do there? Continue balancing the economy around everyone having access to free gear? Tell the speculators to HTFU? You already have access to free gear for farming ISK: the starter fits, they can't remove them because you would not be able to play any longer once you are broke. To be honest the current BPO's are merely better than militia gear. And right now without a economy, without a market that can be influenced by BPO's a removal is simply not justified by any means. well said!
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 215	Posted - 2013.11.22 19:32:00 - [13] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: The problem CCP is running into is that there are a lot of players running BPO suits far more often than spending ISK on regular items. The reason, is to farm ISK for better gear. This makes their whole economy difficult to balance. On top of that, early in the game's history, they sold BPO's for super dirt cheap. 100 AUR ea. for some items. They moved up the price to 15000 or so AUR but many players bought tens or hundreds of copies to resell later in a speculation move. When the player market opens, if these things are sold, everyone will have access to free gear. If they lock the items down, they've screwed over a number of their playerbase. How many, only CCP knows. What should CCP do there? Continue balancing the economy around everyone having access to free gear? Tell the speculators to HTFU? You already have access to free gear for farming ISK: the starter fits, they can't remove them because you would not be able to play any longer once you are broke. To be honest the current BPO's are merely better than militia gear. And right now without a economy, without a market that can be influenced by BPO's a removal is simply not justified by any means. Saying BPO's are merely better than starters or militia gear is downplaying it. The BPO stats are better. Not amazingly better, but they are better. Dropping from STD to militia is a significant difference, mostly in slot layout. Right now, there is no economy or market. There will be. CCP is still deciding how to handle it. I don't want BPO's removed either, but I'm trying to see it from a position of game balance. Consider this. If STD gear is insignificantly better, then why do militia gears or starter fits exist? They made that tier for a balance reason. If it didn't matter, then militia grade stuff would have no need to exist and no one would care that there are however many BPO's out there. It does effect the game in the sense that there is less ISK being spent (read: less ISK leaving the game) on STD gear. Something they are going to have to change the economy around if BPO's stay as they are and market tradeable. I think it has an effect on the micro-transaction market too. Less new players will make those instant gratification purchases on the cheaper aurum items if they see they can grab infinite BPO's easily enough. I'm sure this is a part of what they decide.


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