DUST Search - [Suggestion] Add more Barrel Climb

Mobius Kaethis wrote:

I just checked the math on how this would affect the HMG and for the highest damage varient (the boundless) it would climb .198 degrees per round which comes out to 84 degrees for the entire mag.

The fact is though that this still would make the game fun and would only be penalizing total idiots. No one but a fool empties an entire mag from a HMG in a single burst and doing so should incur a huge amount of barrel climb.

When you go a bit farther with the math though you'll see that the HMG which fires about 33 rounds per second would only be getting 6-¦ of barrel climb per second. That is nothing and a good player will easily be able to compensate with a light touch on the left analogue stick.

I am willing to say though that the HMG might be the exception to my "no racial variants" statement from earlier. The HMG is a massive weapon which should have built in recoil compensators and should have less climb than the formula is giving it. Adding a .75 multiplier would be a great way to deal with this. Alternately a skill could be added from the HMG called recoil compensation which could reduce the climb by 5% per level, effectively doing the same thing but making the heavy a bit more sp intensive.


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Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 238	Posted - 2013.11.21 03:21:00 - [1] - Quote +1 We needed this yesterday. The easy option CCP seem to have used, which is all based on time firing rather than per shot needs to go. I know they're under pressure to use assets as cost efficiently as possible, but it's time to move on before problems are too big.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 243	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:19:00 - [2] - Quote Yeh, frankly I don't see CCP not doing this. It's a simple and standard FPS mechanic. Each shot that is fired has a degree of climb for the muzzle of the gun. They can get more fancy by including a smaller random left/right degree of movement per shot. To put the cheery on the cake they could have a increased level of recoil for the first shot to simulate the operator having to set themselves into the initial recoil. They have to do the basic though, as you've laid out. I don't see any other workable options.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 262	Posted - 2013.11.29 16:59:00 - [3] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: It would be nice if that one single equation would work for all weapons. Unfortunately, it can't and won't. There are better solutions to this problem. Name one. Giving each weapon its own specific amount of barrel climb. Giving them barrel climb based on damage alone would not only be somewhat silly, it would kill variety. I don't see what is silly about have the degree of climb per shot dependent on the shot damage. More damage equals more recoil equals more muzzle climb!!! It's a very simple rule both in real life and is used in most FPS games. Certain weapons will have less climb firing the same bullet dealing the same recoil as another weapon due to a difference in design. What we can have is the Tac AR deals more damage and will therefore have more muzzle climb than the regular full auto AR, but it's advantage is that it is semi-auto and therefore the climb is easier to deal with. In a similar manner the militia AR will have less muzzle climb than the Duvolle due to it doing less damage due to less power behind it which gives less recoil. An equation could easily be used for all weapons in a similar category with the only variable changing being the damage. For example, all the plasma rifles would use one equation, but all the rail rifles would use another equation. Once CCP decide what each weapon type characteristics are, the equation would be simple to put together, and easy to tweak to get a good balance. To add variety to each weapon group, first shot recoil increase, and muzzle movement to left and/or right per shot could be used.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 265	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: More damage does not always equal more recoil, and more recoil does not always equal more barrel climb. Different weapons have different ratios. Minmatar weapons would likely have a higher recoil to damage ratio, and heavier weapons are less affected by a similar amount of recoil than small weapons. Secondly, would this really work for HMGs? Poor HMGs. Can you imagine that ridiculous barrel climb? Keep in mind that the HMGs are designed for continuous fire. Also, congratulations on agreeing with me, dumbarse. You fail at arguments. Other than the equations thing, where else did I agree with you. And that wasn't really in full agreement with ya. Or is that your total reason for attempting to insulting me Dust is not real life and it's not EVE either. Even though I haven't played EVE I still would have preferred if CCP had kept Dust to its same design concepts, but I'll live with they fact that they decided to go their own way with a new rule set being created. There is nothing wrong with using some basic physics to enhance the gameplay experience to make the game feel more natural, even with all the make believe used, but if it gets in the way of fun I prefer make believe over true physics. Your example of the HMGs is fairly bad and shows how little your understanding of the gun from a game as well as real life aspect. As it is, each round does less damage than a SMG round, fires at twice a SMGs ROF to more or less the same distance, but weighs alot more than a SMG and is used on a massive heavy suit designed to handle both the weight and the recoil. Fairly easy to have an equation that factors all this in. And, in reality, the HMG would not have ridiculous barrel climb as you said. Due to where the handles are, the muzzle should push down towards the floor. But, hey, I'm here for fun so I'll go with make believe where the muzzle actually rises. Anyway, whatever Do people a favour and learn to read all their post before ya insert your head up your rear and post a response.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 265	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:30:00 - [5] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: This is already implemented in a form, or at least I believe it to be. I believe that the Higher end AR's have not only more recoil, but more dispersion. I cannot prove it. Though, I feel like this is true. Yeh, I've heard this said as well but I think it's only once you get in recoil after 20-30 rounds that it is seen and even then it's not much. I don't see any real difference myself, it's just what others have said. Most people will burst fire so it wouldn't be an issue anyway
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 265	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:41:00 - [6] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I just checked the math on how this would affect the HMG and for the highest damage varient (the boundless) it would climb .198 degrees per round which comes out to 84 degrees for the entire mag. The fact is though that this still would make the game fun and would only be penalizing total idiots. No one but a fool empties an entire mag from a HMG in a single burst and doing so should incur a huge amount of barrel climb. When you go a bit farther with the math though you'll see that the HMG which fires about 33 rounds per second would only be getting 6-¦ of barrel climb per second. That is nothing and a good player will easily be able to compensate with a light touch on the left analogue stick. I am willing to say though that the HMG might be the exception to my "no racial variants" statement from earlier. The HMG is a massive weapon which should have built in recoil compensators and should have less climb than the formula is giving it. Adding a .75 multiplier would be a great way to deal with this. Alternately a skill could be added from the HMG called recoil compensation which could reduce the climb by 5% per level, effectively doing the same thing but making the heavy a bit more sp intensive. ^Good stuff. Yeh, the HMG would have to be looked at with a modifier as the suit that was designed to use it is meant to help combat the recoil, plus, as you said the weapon is massive and with the low damage per bullet the gun shouldn't have too much muzzle climb. The HMG operations as it is is the same as the skill you mention, 5% recoil reduction/level, so all good there.