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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7853
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've already seen some numbers thrown around showing how the Python will likely be king just with how shields work vs how armor works, ignoring the fact that missiles are hands down easier to use than either rails or blasters. At max Assault Dropship skill, the Python receives 50% RoF boost to Missiles, where the Incubus receives a 50% RoF boost to Blasters and Rails.
Seems fair, right?
Wrong. Unlike missiles, blasters and rails both overheat. Adding this RoF boost would seem to just make the gun more difficult to use, as yes, it lays out its DPS faster at first, but it overheats half again as fast as normal. This means that if you want to take advantage of your RoF boost, you have to give up tank to fit a heat sink, yet you need that tank because blasters require you to level out and stay still to hit targets, unlike missiles where you can fly pretty erratically. I don't even count rails because generally speaking they're only useful against vehicles.
So, Python king ADS for the foreseeable future?
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ForgeGuns R4N00BS
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
50% rof is pretty huge.
And yeah, that sounds like a negative for hybrids and a super positive for missiles.
I'm glad CCP thought out these bonuses so well /s |
Sephirian Fair
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
129
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Railgun, you are probably right in your assumption. It'll heat up 50% faster since it is per shot. Though the Blaster states that it is Heat Build-Up per second, rather than shots fired. In theory, if CCP follows that mechanic to the letter, the Heat Build-Up for Blasters should be the same. It should be able to take advantage of its bonus fairly effectively, then. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7853
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:The Railgun, you are probably right in your assumption. It'll heat up 50% faster since it is per shot. Though the Blaster states that it is Heat Build-Up per second, rather than shots fired. In theory, if CCP follows that mechanic to the letter, the Heat Build-Up for Blasters should be the same. It should be able to take advantage of its bonus fairly effectively, then.
If that's true then I would retract my complaint, at least for the blaster, as that would eliminate any negative of having the faster RoF. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, or maybe a blue could grace us with a clarification
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ForgeGuns R4N00BS
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:The Railgun, you are probably right in your assumption. It'll heat up 50% faster since it is per shot. Though the Blaster states that it is Heat Build-Up per second, rather than shots fired. In theory, if CCP follows that mechanic to the letter, the Heat Build-Up for Blasters should be the same. It should be able to take advantage of its bonus fairly effectively.
Or really, the incubus then should have an additional overheat reduction to keep the spirit of dps increase in line |
Sephirian Fair
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
130
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:The Railgun, you are probably right in your assumption. It'll heat up 50% faster since it is per shot. Though the Blaster states that it is Heat Build-Up per second, rather than shots fired. In theory, if CCP follows that mechanic to the letter, the Heat Build-Up for Blasters should be the same. It should be able to take advantage of its bonus fairly effectively, then. If that's true then I would retract my complaint, at least for the blaster, as that would eliminate any negative of having the faster RoF. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, or maybe a blue could grace us with a clarification
Yes, that's usually the issue with any changes. Can't really tell what is what until it's implemented, lol. As for the Railguns, if they finally fix the damage bug, it could still be fairly useful despite the increased Heat Build-Up. Alpha damage is a lot more important than sustained damage for AV and that will be all the more true if CCP manages to balance the active module uptime/downtime properly. So while it would heat-up 50% faster, you still get the damage out on that enemy vehicle 50% faster. That could mean the difference between their active hardener coming back up in time or not.
Not entirely shafted in a sense. Still more useful than before, but I agree with you. Very lame if it does behave that way. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7854
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:The Railgun, you are probably right in your assumption. It'll heat up 50% faster since it is per shot. Though the Blaster states that it is Heat Build-Up per second, rather than shots fired. In theory, if CCP follows that mechanic to the letter, the Heat Build-Up for Blasters should be the same. It should be able to take advantage of its bonus fairly effectively, then. If that's true then I would retract my complaint, at least for the blaster, as that would eliminate any negative of having the faster RoF. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, or maybe a blue could grace us with a clarification Yes, that's usually the issue with any changes. Can't really tell what is what until it's implemented, lol. As for the Railguns, if they finally fix the damage bug, it could still be fairly useful despite the increased Heat Build-Up. Alpha damage is a lot more important than sustained damage for AV and that will be all the more true if CCP manages to balance the active module uptime/downtime properly. So while it would heat-up 50% faster, you still get the damage out on that enemy vehicle 50% faster. That could mean the difference between their active hardener coming back up in time or not. Not entirely shafted in a sense. Still more useful than before, but I agree with you. Very lame if it does behave that way.
With Rails I'd be much less concerned as well, since you have WAY more range, and you can sit up pretty high, peppering vehicles. For them, sacrificing a slot for a heat sink is much less painful, and fits the theme a bit better. So really, my main concern is with the blaster. I'll hold out that you're right and it is heat up per second, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
185
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
main concern is that blasters are pretty pointless on a drop ship. at teh average height a dropship flies its out of blaster range anyway and rails don't have anywhere near the splash range/damage of missiles making them almost impossible to hit anything anyway. that alone makes the caldai DS far better |
Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
309
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
That reload speed thoGǪ
But yeah, I can definitely see the Python being the star attack ship for now, but it's a one trick pony. The Incubus (and other amrour dropships and vehicles) can be fitted with MCRUs, afterburners, scanners, damage mods, and other high slot modules that can make it a good support ship while not sacrificing its tank (much, in some cases).
Whether that makes a big difference in their use or not, we'll just have to wait and see.
Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane
Kills- Incubus: 2; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 10
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
111
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
shield extenders need buffs lolz 168>300, 300>450 or 500, >600 only way to stop getting 3 shotted, 1 shot w/o hardener=half shields gone
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2279
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also starting to look like the roles are reversed because
Armor repairs being passive means very slow recharge and long down times.
Shields being passive, but with boosters and injections means faster downtimes and full repairs.
So, whereas armor before used active repair and gained HP back quicker, and shield used passive repair to gain shield back slower
Armor is going to use passive repair to gain hp back slower, and shields will use active repair to gain hp back quicker (plus their built in passive regen)
Will armor repair rate lend it self to sustaining damage in combat? Or then what is the advantage of armor in 1.7 |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Also starting to look like the roles are reversed because
Armor repairs being passive means very slow recharge and long down times.
Shields being passive, but with boosters and injections means faster downtimes and full repairs.
So, whereas armor before used active repair and gained HP back quicker, and shield used passive repair to gain shield back slower
Armor is going to use passive repair to gain hp back slower, and shields will use active repair to gain hp back quicker (plus their built in passive regen)
Will armor repair rate lend it self to sustaining damage in combat? Or then what is the advantage of armor in 1.7 hp, shorter cooldowns, ples armor has shields.
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2293
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:shield extenders need buffs lolz 168>300, 300>450 or 500, >600 only way to stop getting 3 shotted, 1 shot w/o hardener=half shields gone
Yeah, unless forge dmg took a hit then DS will still be cannon fodder. and I didn't see the numbers on large rail turret damage but that could be the biggest pain in teh *** that makes every pilot quit Dust because if its OP vs DS, we won't see a fix for another decade. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:shield extenders need buffs lolz 168>300, 300>450 or 500, >600 only way to stop getting 3 shotted, 1 shot w/o hardener=half shields gone Yeah, unless forge dmg took a hit then DS will still be cannon fodder. and I didn't see the numbers on large rail turret damage but that could be the biggest pain in teh *** that makes every pilot quit Dust because if its OP vs DS, we won't see a fix for another decade. 1885 dmg at proto
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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darkiller240
K-A-O-S theory
181
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP STD=1450 ADV=1688 PRO=1885 one shot will bring down your shields with the crap light extenders we have in 1.7, no matter what you cant know when a rail will shoot. rails need 300m range or damage dropoff near 200m or 250m to be balanced AT ALL.
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:darkiller240 wrote:look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP STD=1450 ADV=1688 PRO=1885 one shot will bring down your shields with the crap light extenders we have in 1.7, no matter what you cant know when a rail will shoot. rails need 300m range or damage dropoff near 200m or 250m to be balanced AT ALL. think about it like this people: std rails are like better afg's, adv and proto are STRONGER than the op assault forge guns we have now
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
113
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
bump.......
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Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
310
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:darkiller240 wrote:look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP STD=1450 ADV=1688 PRO=1885 one shot will bring down your shields with the crap light extenders we have in 1.7, no matter what you cant know when a rail will shoot. rails need 300m range or damage dropoff near 200m or 250m to be balanced AT ALL. Fit 2 complex shield hardeners, a basic heavy shield extender, and a PG mod. This will give you >6k ehp for 1min with a 15sec cooldown or 12k for 30sec.
Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane
Kills- Incubus: 2; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 10
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:darkiller240 wrote:look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP STD=1450 ADV=1688 PRO=1885 one shot will bring down your shields with the crap light extenders we have in 1.7, no matter what you cant know when a rail will shoot. rails need 300m range or damage dropoff near 200m or 250m to be balanced AT ALL. Fit 2 complex shield hardeners, a basic heavy shield extender, and a PG mod. This will give you >6k ehp for 1min with a 15sec cooldown or 12k for 30sec. it will take 4 shots for you to die lol 1885X4 higher than 6k, please give rails 300m range max or reduc rof
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2295
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:darkiller240 wrote:look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP STD=1450 ADV=1688 PRO=1885 one shot will bring down your shields with the crap light extenders we have in 1.7, no matter what you cant know when a rail will shoot. rails need 300m range or damage dropoff near 200m or 250m to be balanced AT ALL. Fit 2 complex shield hardeners, a basic heavy shield extender, and a PG mod. This will give you >6k ehp for 1min with a 15sec cooldown or 12k for 30sec. it will take 4 shots for you to die lol 1885X4 higher than 6k, please give rails 300m range max or reduce rof btw you dont double ehp, LOLZ, 6kX2 doesn't work that way
Do hardeners still work in the way that they run for so short of time, you need to predict when the un-rendered red line rail tank at 600 meters is going to 2 shot you 2 seconds before it happens?
If so then don't bother factoring hardeners into the equation. Hes already dead |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
117
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:darkiller240 wrote:look at the equipment a pyphon can equip yer not much with out wuring the HP STD=1450 ADV=1688 PRO=1885 one shot will bring down your shields with the crap light extenders we have in 1.7, no matter what you cant know when a rail will shoot. rails need 300m range or damage dropoff near 200m or 250m to be balanced AT ALL. Fit 2 complex shield hardeners, a basic heavy shield extender, and a PG mod. This will give you >6k ehp for 1min with a 15sec cooldown or 12k for 30sec. it will take 4 shots for you to die lol 1885X4 higher than 6k, please give rails 300m range max or reduce rof btw you dont double ehp, LOLZ, 6kX2 doesn't work that way Do hardeners still work in the way that they run for so short of time, you need to predict when the un-rendered red line rail tank at 600 meters is going to 2 shot you 2 seconds IKR!? rails NEED 300m range max, and less dmg
recuruit link
5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
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