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Dbukalski1
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love RPG games. I have no problem grinding experience points.
Ive been playing eve for 3 years so Im accustomed to playing in a hostile environment. Except in that game I can enjoy PVE while Im skilling up, Im not immediately going 1 v 1 my frigate vs their titan.
Im pretty good at FPS games. For those who play bf4 Ive got a 2.1 k/d, 800spm and 85% win/loss. I play solo no clan. I dont even like to play with people Ive met in the game because 2 or 3 higher level players out of 16 means too much domination and no fun. Which doesnt make me the top player in the world but Im describing that I know how to play FPS games well and fight for objectives
I have a 3 month old Dust account with a 1.1k/d which is pretty good I figure for a newb playing with militia gear vs proto. I love the idea of skilling up over the course of years. And being a small fish in a big pond, then working my way up to being a big fish in a big pond. This is an alt account I just created because i couldnt be bothered to remember the login information for the other psn account my son created. So introductions out of the way heres a newbs view of Dust
The player base is too small which means all the vets that have earned their proto gear are forced to play with the newbs in militia gear. When i get proto gear Ill be using it. Otherwise whats the point of all the skilling up. Unfortunately that leads to whats called protostomping. Which drives new players away fueling the player base problem even more.
Someone recently posted the server population stats for the past 6 months and it showed player count decreasing steadily. I believe from 9k peak to 3k currently. Those may not be COD/MW or BF shooter server populations but 3k is still enough to work with so I believe there is a solution. The solution is painful though if were going to staunch the player bleed problem.
The solution requires that we spread out the talent pool in a match. So that each team ends up with proto + milia troops. That is currently not possible because there are too many game types so that the player base is spread out. I propose that
1) Ambush is completely removed as that is the worst protostomping environment, theres very little strategic play other than squads working together to dominate newbs
2) Skirmish(1 objective?) is completely removed since 1 objective focuses the play too much which brings all the proto players to one location squeezing out the militia newbs. They need more room to breath in and maybe get the drop on a more developed character
3) remove PC and FW, the player base isnt robust enough to spread players out.
4) which leaves domination(several objectives?) game mode, which probably freaks you guys out but something needs to change if Dust is going to survive rather than dwindling the player base more and more. Once the player base stabiliizes out and maybe starts to grow we can add the other game modes back in.
If we dont do this vets who want to use the shiney toys theyve earned will protostomp militia nubs who will quit, the player base continues to dwindle and Dust dies. Eventually we can get other game modes back when the player population can support them whlie allowing the match making system to spread proto players out.
There are many ways for the matchmaking system to pair players together correctly. The best IMO is WP/min within past week, month whatever the devs feel is best. I prefer this because crap proto or good advanced players...or even good militia players trying to save up isk will be more clearly represented with their abilities in the game. This will take into account all the different contributions a player makes to their team. the only way this would fail is if WP is incorrectly weighted. I believe kills arent given enough WP(50 is so pitiful IMO)
Which leads me to my next point
There is no reason for me to play Dust currently. I get
6k skill per day for logging in x 7 days = 42k skill / week
24k passive skill / day x 7 days = 168k /week
190k skill per week active which i can get by sitting in the MCC while I watch TV or just pay attention to the wifey/kids
Thats a whopping 400k skill/week
on the flip side i can bust my ass in game with my crap gear getting insta popped by proto players, or maybe getting the drop on a proto player unloading my entire AR mag he turns around and kills me anyways. Occasionally I can steal a kill or find another newb and get a kill. Maybe cap a turret or two. And in the end get like 700WP extra x 4 games a day(thats pushiing it) x 7 days(thats pushing it) = 19.6k skill per week and thats pushing it. A drop in the bucket
Theres no enjoyment in playing either. Im completely outmatched, i cant see other players with my passive scan, they can see me so right off the bat Im completely screwed even if they run militia gear. proto EHP and DPS is insane compared to mine. Their running squads with active scanners. Im literally the fish in the barrel for these guys. If there were a couple of them vs a couple on my team it would be different. I was going 3 and 15 ish trying to contribute aggressively. Ruining my KD which eventually I will want to be good to join the good clans. So Instead of snipe and go slightly positive but boring as heck. But less infuriating than getting stomped.
So I can just sit in MCC get my weekly 190k cap while enjoying tv/family.
For me to consider playing they would have to drastically increase the WP gained in battle to counter the massive frustration. OR when I have proto gear and can enjoy the gun battle more then I will play for the fun of it + ill gain more WP anyways because Ill get many more kills. OR they fix the game like I outlined in the beginning so the games are more balanced so that I can contribute to the battle without losing many more tickets for my team than I gain. |
Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
91
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeap it's best to just AFK in the MCC until you have the SP to go full proto less hassle, less frustrating and leaves you free to do something else and have fun
My Theme
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Enzef
I Blame The Parents
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
1) get in a squad, protos arent invincible, sometimes youll get a spot in an open ptoto squasd by moving to it. if they use calls then listen, learn off them. the opposition use teamwork? YOU use teamwork. If youre determined to lonewolf use brains; lazy protos get bloodlust chasing spawns and sometimes don't notice flanking.
2) its called domination, it's a meatgrinder by design. can be a great close match can be crap one sided slaughter. judge which it is and play accordingly.
3) PC is for the big boys, FW is as variable as pub matches.
4) its called skirmish. only having skirmish is boring.
I have killed black suits with red eyes using a militia rifle. I have tried to get mates into dust and they say 'its too hard'. It is unbalanced as hell and ropey in a lot of ways.
But its also a great game. FPS & RPG skills hell yeah. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
842
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
TL;DR = This guy wants to remove Ambush, Skirmish (multiple objectives, by the way, to correct you OP), Domination, (a single objective, to correct you again) FW, and PC because it "thins the population". That literally is everything. That is every mode that he was removed.
Planetary Conquest is meaningless, Ambush serves as the killing grounds, Skirmish and Domination serve as a more objective driven killing ground, and Factional Warfare is there with more meaning than Planetary Conquest because it actually affects something EVE side (though a non-pod dweller will never understand this). It also serves as the bloodbath of the factions' war. Gallente versus Caldari, Minmitar versus Amarr. Personally, I have little quarrel to the Caldari and am more prone to the slaughtering of Amarrians, but I must kill all the enemies of the Federation.
This is New Eden on the ground. Fights are going to be hellishly unfair. I shamelessly beat people down with the Commando after gunning their buddies down with one of my lights. I will stab you in the goddamn back as a heavy if I see the chance. I will lurk around with my comrades so I can get a jump on you while you gun them down. The battlefield is riddled with the blood of those that did not prepare, those did not get that chance to escape.
The playercount right now consists of a possible 400 new bloods (just a random, seemingly legit number). The rest is people like me. We'll go down with the ship. This is our playground. Our battlefield. We'll kill one another until there's nothing left. We are the core of this game. We are the population. We're the mercenaries that will fight until everything is dead.
...
And this is the problem. We kill one another. Some of us have honor to those that are attempting to integrate into our ways of life, some of us take advantage of it. Personally, I believe in the honor to the new bloods. I run standard nearly constantly, with advanced being there for when I need to practice with a weapon I'm not too sure about or if I'm running a series of tests on the piece in question. It doesn't matter what people run against me or who runs with me. I've become... a bit bitter. I used to be a constant logibro, picking everyone up no matter who I had to kill to secure their revival. Patching up those that have left me for dead. Time passed and... well. I became a little bitter. These days, you'll see me in a scout suit or a heavy. I haven't abandoned my logibro ways. I sometimes meet people that I can give trust to. To these people, I'll die for them. To pick them up. To heal them. To resupply them. To secure a spawn for them.
Not everyone shares my sentiments. We have those that depend on their high-end gear and pack travelling because they are unable to do everything else. If they had any merit, they wouldn't need to use the max gear against militia and standard. A crutch is a crutch and I hope they never walk again.
As for active scanners, they are bloody annoying but they are effective. Too much, I say. Again, this is New Eden. A lot of things isn't fair. Believe it or not, there's only three suit fitting I own that are bricked. Everything else is either dampened or passive scan strong. The passive scan is wonderful, as I can see them but they do not know that I can (as with the active scanner).
All you can do is tough it out for now. Slap on a passive booster, go do something less stressful than this game. One day, you'll know what you want to do.
Me? I'm a goddamn ninja heavy with a FG and NK or a Gallentean scout dual wielding Assault Scrambler Pistols (or a shotgun with NK). I have skilling in a bit of everything. I can do Assaults, Scouts, Sentinels, Commandos, Logistics. I can use every weapon to at least the advanced degree with six at the prototype with over 3 prof. I run around and meet so many people and have so many stories to tell from the shenanigans we've done that it keeps me going.
P.S. Meta-based matchmaking is the answer.
TL;DR = Read, you nawbs.
"I am a mercenary, I do as I need. I'll shed Amarrian blood for the freedom of my Minmitar allies but only for a price."
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Dbukalski1
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:TL;DR = This guy wants to remove Ambush, Skirmish (multiple objectives, by the way, to correct you OP), Domination, (a single objective, to correct you again) FW, and PC because it "thins the population". That literally is everything. That is every mode that he was removed.
I want to keep the multiple objective skirmish mode. If/when the population allows good matchmaking then add in other modes. Im being realistic about the future of the game
Quote:Planetary Conquest is meaningless, Ambush serves as the killing grounds, Skirmish and Domination serve as a more objective driven killing ground, and Factional Warfare is there with more meaning than Planetary Conquest because it actually affects something EVE side (though a non-pod dweller will never understand this). It also serves as the bloodbath of the factions' war. Gallente versus Caldari, Minmitar versus Amarr. Personally, I have little quarrel to the Caldari and am more prone to the slaughtering of Amarrians, but I must kill all the enemies of the Federation.
Your making the case for leaving things the way they are which means new players dont join/stay which means you wont have a game to play eventually. Dust is FTP with microtransactions as a source of income. Old vets with BPO and proto equipment dont need to buy the mid level gear that costs AUR. Dust needs new players willing to spend money not the old farts
So your choice, make some sacrifices in game modes or have no game not too long from now.
Quote:The playercount right now consists of a possible 400 new bloods (just a random, seemingly legit number). The rest is people like me. We'll go down with the ship. This is our playground. Our battlefield. We'll kill one another until there's nothing left. We are the core of this game. We are the population. We're the mercenaries that will fight until everything is dead.
yes you will go down with the ship. I wonder if the devs are as willing to let the ship sink so you can keep the playground the way you want it.
possibly 400 new bloods? yeah right just like in eve where there are players with multiple accounts. I bet you most of those new bloods are people who already play Dust and want more than 1 account gaining passive and caps. The real new players wont stay. By all rights I shouldnt be here. Who in their right mind logs in every day to sit in an MCC so someday I can play a game when I could be playing bf4 on PS4
The last part sounds basically crazy. We are the game, we are the mercenaries that will die until everything is dead. OMG i hope others read what your saying, see themselves in that mirror and decide to change course. Because if your the future of this game then were all doomed.
Quote: this is the problem. We kill one another. Some of us have honor to those that are attempting to integrate into our ways of life, some of us take advantage of it. Personally, I believe in the honor to the new bloods. I run standard nearly constantly, with advanced being there for when I need to practice with a weapon I'm not too sure about or if I'm running a series of tests on the piece in question. It doesn't matter what people run against me or who runs with me. I've become... a bit bitter. I used to be a constant logibro, picking everyone up no matter who I had to kill to secure their revival. Patching up those that have left me for dead. Time passed and... well. I became a little bitter. These days, you'll see me in a scout suit or a heavy. I haven't abandoned my logibro ways. I sometimes meet people that I can give trust to. To these people, I'll die for them. To pick them up. To heal them. To resupply them. To secure a spawn for them.
Newbs get proto stomped so whats it matter if your not protostomping. Lets deal with reality not your weird internet honour/code. Im not playing this game so I can skill up and use average gear. Average gear is what all other games offer. this game offers the opportunity to have LEET gear if you put the time into the game. When I get proto gear Im not going back if I can help it.
if the game cant survive with me using the gear Ive earned then theres no point playing.
The devs needs to create an atmosphere where people who have earned their LEET gear can use it, but also where newbs have a reason to play. And currently newbs do not have a reason to play and therefore the games dying.
Im not playing this game for graphics(they suck), im not playing this game because the gunplay is good(its terrible), Im not playing this game because the vehicles are fun to drive(their not)
Im playing this game to level up my character and design my own suit/vehicle with custom specs(modules, weapons etc) and because theres a economic side to the game and because it has tie ins with EVE, faction, corp wars.
Quote:As for active scanners, they are bloody annoying but they are effective. Too much, I say. Again, this is New Eden. A lot of things isn't fair.
want to make up your mind here? Are they too effective or is it appropriate for EDEN environment? Actually dont answer that. Im not really interested in active scanners, or module/suit/vehicle/weapon balance. Whats killing this game is new players getting curb stomped by vets and then quitting the game. If you cant fix that then all the other crap is pointless.
continued |
Dbukalski1
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:
All you can do is tough it out for now. Slap on a passive booster, go do something less stressful than this game. One day, you'll know what you want to do.
its shocking you can say this and not think theres a problem. Vets did not have to slap a passive booster on then leave the game then come back a year later. They played the game, sometimes it was rought but it was worth playing. It is no longer worth playing for newbs. The power curve has gone too far for new entries to bother with the game.
Im crazy for still being here. Anyone interested in FPS games has access to games much more gratifying than this game is. Why would anyone bother with a FTP game thats worse than the shooters they already own at home?
Quote:Me? I'm a goddamn ninja heavy with a FG and NK or a Gallentean scout dual wielding Assault Scrambler Pistols (or a shotgun with NK). I have skilling in a bit of everything. I can do Assaults, Scouts, Sentinels, Commandos, Logistics. I can use every weapon to at least the advanced degree with six at the prototype with over 3 prof. I run around and meet so many people and have so many stories to tell from
haha, your sooo awesome. I guarantee you the talent pool in Dust is far below the average for an FPS. Serious FPS players wouldnt touch this with a 10 foot pole. Youve got EVE old players with bad twitch reflexes, you have low income people interested in FTP games who generally dont take life serious let alone a silly FTP game so their not going to study weapon stats, best builds/tactics. The pool of talented twitch and strategy players(Im sure there are some) in this game isnt very high. Combine that with your passive skills that make all your standard gear top notch compared to the ****** militia/standard gear others are running and Im sure you think your the best ninja ever. |
Dbukalski1
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Enzef wrote:1) get in a squad, protos arent invincible, sometimes youll get a spot in a decent open squad by moving to it. if they use calls then listen, learn off them. the opposition use teamwork? YOU use teamwork. If youre determined to lonewolf use brains; lazy protos get bloodlust chasing spawns and sometimes don't notice flanking.
2) its called domination, it's a meatgrinder by design. can be a great close match can be crap one sided slaughter. judge which it is and play accordingly.
3) PC is for the big boys, FW is as variable as pub matches.
4) its called skirmish. only having skirmish is boring.
so your ok with the way things are, with a dying Dust population. A population of vets who dont need AUR items so dont spend money. This isnt Eve or Wow where old vets pay a monthly subscription to keep the servers alive. If you dont bring/keep new players the game makes too little money.
If your not ok with the way things are going then you need to make the game viable for new players. Which means balanced teams, which means a larger player pool to choose from. Which means spreading out the 3k players there are over 7 game modes isnt going to work.
Maybe we dont have to bring it down to 1 game mode, maybe 2 will suffice or whatever. But reduce it they should.
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John ShepardIII
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
66
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Posted - 2013.11.20 17:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
[quote=Dbukalski1]I love RPG games. I have no problem grinding experience points.
Ive been playing eve for 3 years so Im accustomed to playing in a hostile environment. Except in that game I can enjoy PVE while Im skilling up, Im not immediately going 1 v 1 my frigate vs their titan.
Im pretty good at FPS games. For those who play bf4 Ive got a 2.1 k/d, 800spm and 85% win/loss. I play solo no clan. I dont even like to play with people Ive met in the game because 2 or 3 higher level players out of 16 means too much domination and no fun. Which doesnt make me the top player in the world but Im describing that I know how to play FPS games well and fight for objectives
I have a 3 month old Dust account with a 1.1k/d which is pretty good I figure for a newb playing with militia gear vs proto. I love the idea of skilling up over the course of years. And being a small fish in a big pond, then working my way up to being a big fish in a big pond. This is an alt account I just created because i couldnt be bothered to remember the login information for the other psn account my son created. So introductions out of the way heres a newbs view of Dust
The player base is too small which means all the vets that have earned their proto gear are forced to play with the newbs in militia gear. When i get proto gear Ill be using it. Otherwise whats the point of all the skilling up. Unfortunately that leads to whats called protostomping. Which drives new players away fueling the player base problem even more.
Someone recently posted the server population stats for the past 6 months and it showed player count decreasing steadily. I believe from 9k peak to 3k currently. Those may not be COD/MW or BF shooter server populations but 3k is still enough to work with so I believe there is a solution. The solution is painful though if were going to staunch the player bleed problem.
The solution requires that we spread out the talent pool in a match. So that each team ends up with proto + milia troops. That is currently not possible because there are too many game types so that the player base is spread out. I propose that
1) Ambush is completely removed as that is the worst protostomping environment, theres very little strategic play other than squads working together to dominate newbs
2) Skirmish(1 objective?) is completely removed since 1 objective focuses the play too much which brings all the proto players to one location squeezing out the militia newbs. They need more room to breath in and maybe get the drop on a more developed character
3) remove PC and FW, the player base isnt robust enough to spread players out.
4) which leaves domination(several objectives?) game mode, which probably freaks you guys out but something needs to change if Dust is going to survive rather than dwindling the player base more and more. Once the player base stabiliizes out and maybe starts to grow we can add the other game modes back in.
If we dont do this vets who want to use the shiney toys theyve earned will protostomp militia nubs who will quit, the player base continues to dwindle and Dust dies. Eventually we can get other game modes back when the player population can support them whlie allowing the match making system to spread proto players out.
There are many ways for the matchmaking system to pair players together correctly. The best IMO is WP/min within past week, month whatever the devs feel is best. I prefer this because crap proto or good advanced players...or even good militia players trying to save up isk will be more clearly represented with their abilities in the game. This will take into account all the different contributions a player makes to their team. the only way this would fail is if WP is incorrectly weighted. I believe kills arent given enough WP(50 is so pitiful IMO)
Which leads me to my next point
There is no reason for me to play Dust currently. I get
6k skill per day for logging in x 7 days = 42k skill / week
24k passive skill / day x 7 days = 168k /week
190k skill per week active which i can get by sitting in the MCC while I watch TV or just pay attention to the wifey/kids
Thats a whopping 400k skill/week
on the flip side i can bust my ass in game with my crap gear getting insta popped by proto players, or maybe getting the drop on a proto player unloading my entire AR mag he turns around and kills me anyways. Occasionally I can steal a kill or find another newb and get a kill. Maybe cap a turret or two. And in the end get like 700WP extra x 4 games a day(thats pushiing it) x 7 days(thats pushing it) = 19.6k skill per week and thats pushing it. A drop in the bucket
Theres no enjoyment in playing either. Im completely outmatched, i cant see other players with my passive scan, they can see me so right off the bat Im completely screwed even if they run militia gear. proto EHP and DPS is insane compared to mine. Their running squads with active scanners. Im literally the fish in the barrel for these guys. If there were a couple of them vs a couple on my team it would be different. I was going 3 and 15 ish trying to contribute aggressively. Ruining my KD which eventually I will want to be good to join the good clans. So Instead Ive been sniping snipe and going slightly positive(1.5 k/d which has recovered my 0.5 i got down to trying to be active) which is boring as heck. But less infuriating than getting stomped.
So I can just sit in MCC get my weekly 190k cap while enjoying tv/family.
Hang in there it gets a lot easier. I remember when the first time I played this game I was happy to get a kill, and now I get pissed if I die more than once :) |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
693
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Posted - 2013.11.20 17:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP is monitoring this thread here. I suggest you check it out.
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
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