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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7114
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Posted - 2013.11.19 08:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
For all its complex fitting systems, planetary conquests, faction warfare, skills, etc, Dust's gameplay is still basically a simple shooter with no substantial mechanics to set it apart and make it unique compared to other shooters. There are some unique systems, passive scan system, damage types, active modules for vehicles (fairly unique in a shooter) and that's about it; they don't fundamentally effect how you play the game in a big way.
The battlefield series has destructible environments (kind of cool)
The Killzone and Mass Effect series have cool class-based powers (awesome)
COD has those killstreaks (meh)
Bioshock infinite had powers and that skyline (cool)
Planetside 2 has the massive scale (ok)
Titanfall has the aaaaawwwwwwwwesome mechs (awesome)
Many shooters (Halo, Titanfall, Killzone 3, Section 8) have jetpacks (cool)
Dust have many many things going for it that make it unique interesting, and special, but none of those things are in the actual gameplay. Our equipment is basically the same things we see in Battlefield or similar games (active scanner = motion sensor, drop uplink = spawn beacon, injector = defibrillator, repair tool = health pack, nanohive = ammo pack, and REs = C4). We have enough gear for the game to be tactically functional, but nothing strays outside the ordinary and dares to show any creativity.
Forge gun, scrambler rifle, and (especially) laser rifle, and flaylock pistol are pretty unique weapons for a shooter, but these are not enough to make Dust's gameplay stand out beyond average.
Mechs (MTACs) and cloaking are coming eventually (sadly doesn't seem to be anytime soon), but I don't think that will be enough. While i do want mechs and cloaking, they have been done so many times by so many shooters (Halo, Killzone, etc) that I don't think it will be enough.
Players have proposed methods of dealing with this: Infantry active modules Fun new equipment that bring exciting new gameplay, teleportation grenades, inertial capacitors I have suggested stargate-like installations CCP, please sprinkle some pizzazz. Right now Dust is a very deep generic shooter, but still generic.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7933
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Posted - 2013.11.19 08:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
We need more indirect combat options like buffs and debuffs like what EVE's modules offer. There's 10 years worth of this style of combat that exists in the same universe. Some of it needs to translate to Dust 514 better.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
2173
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Posted - 2013.11.19 09:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kagehoshi, dig out the old "superpower like active modules" thread
This Char i only use on the forum.
To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype.
Et vive la France !
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7115
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Posted - 2013.11.19 09:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Kagehoshi, dig out the old "superpower like active modules" thread Too bad its locked from inactivity
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
2074
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Posted - 2013.11.19 09:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
-Unique racial HUDs -more dynamic HUDs (like Iron Man)
-DUST can also diverge from lobby shooters by giving more freedom to which matches players choose to fight. Instead of instant battles we need a contract board to select available contracts based on reward and risk. Player experience and play-time unlocks more contracts as a mercenary becomes more "well-known" in New Eden.
-PvE contracts, PvP contracts, non-combative/competitive contracts (for the carebears and AFKers), with varying rewards depending on the risk (PvP is high, PvE is medium, non-combat is low) -building up rep. for NPC factions besides the empires of FW -dynamic contract system, which could lead to players betraying a faction they worked for to join a rival because the money is better there. -Manufacturing items EVE-side, perhaps.
As for more in-game ideas, -different types of utility grenades: the teleporter grenade is a prime example. Also smoke grenades, webifier grenades, healing grenades, decoy grenades, etc. -I think full racial content would make a huge difference to how much more engaging the gameplay is. -Larger-scale battles. -More intuitive ways to communicate with the team and less cumbersome squad order mechanics. -A commander role, which could be optional but good commanders would lead teams to victory. -Weather effects -Player-owned installations/installation bases -Player-owned MCCs. This is a whole topic in itself, really. Imagine if a single, absolutely rich player staged a fight against someone else simply because he had enough money to purchase a clone pack and MCC.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3827
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Posted - 2013.11.19 12:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:For all its complex fitting systems, planetary conquests, faction warfare, skills, etc, Dust's gameplay is still basically a simple shooter with no substantial mechanics to set it apart and make it unique compared to other shooters. There are some unique systems, passive scan system, damage types, active modules for vehicles (fairly unique in a shooter) and that's about it; they don't fundamentally effect how you play the game in a big way. The battlefield series has destructible environments (kind of cool)
The Killzone and Mass Effect series have cool class-based powers (awesome)
COD has those killstreaks (meh)
Bioshock infinite had powers and that skyline (cool)
Planetside 2 has the massive scale (ok)
Titanfall has the aaaaawwwwwwwwesome mechs (awesome)
Many shooters (Halo, Titanfall, Killzone 3, Section 8) have jetpacks (cool)
Dust has many many things going for it that make it unique interesting, and special, but none of those things are in the actual gameplay. Our equipment is basically the same things we see in Battlefield or similar games (active scanner = motion sensor, drop uplink = spawn beacon, injector = defibrillator, repair tool = health pack, nanohive = ammo pack, and REs = C4). We have enough gear for the game to be tactically functional, but nothing strays outside the ordinary and dares to show any creativity. Forge gun, scrambler rifle, and (especially) laser rifle, and flaylock pistol are pretty unique weapons for a shooter, but these are not enough to make Dust's gameplay stand out beyond average. Our dropsuits are pretty simple and boring in terms of function in a shooter with the exception of the logi (no sidearm, multiple equipment). Mechs (MTACs) and cloaking are coming eventually (sadly doesn't seem to be anytime soon), but I don't think that will be enough. While i do want mechs and cloaking, they have been done so many times by so many shooters (Halo, Killzone, etc) that I don't think it will be enough. Players have proposed methods of dealing with this: Infantry active modules Fun new equipment that bring exciting new gameplay, teleportation grenades, inertial capacitors I have suggested stargate-like installations CCP, please sprinkle some pizzazz. Right now Dust is a very deep generic shooter, but still generic. I'm a bit leery of things like active infantry modules and jetpacks, but I would personally love to see Dust incorporate more means of movement and interaction with the environment.
For example, since you mentioned Titanfall, even with the jump-jets the Pilots get taken out of the equation, you're still able to vault over objects and even grab ledges above you and pull yourself over them. That was also a major mechanic in the Crysis series introduced in Crysis 2, and helped you feel more like you were wearing a badass suit of powered armor rather than just plodding around like normal infantry.
Destructible environments would be a pretty big one in my book. The Unreal engine actually has as part of it's code base a kind of "partial destruction" system whereby you can destroy the outer layers of a structure to reveal indestructible architectural elements within. It wouldn't be the same as shooting a house apart or bringing down a building, but putting craters in a wall as you fire at it would make our weapons feel like they aren't pea-shooters.
Cat Merc and I are planning a "Mega Thread" and accompanying YouTube video on this topic, but I've been working on an idea for a while now where capturing a District would involve progressing through multiple battles across the District using a lattice system similar to Planetside 2 and regulated in pace by MCC travel time.
To give a very brief example: Darkstar Army deploys 2 MCCs down to a District. Each MCC can pick a "burnzone"(since that's what the game calls them when you're in a match) to start an attack in. After a Skirmish 1.0 style battle, the Commander can choose another "burnzone" adjacent to that one, and the attack continues. You keep this up until you reach the central zone, which will have some kind of command structure that requires more teamwork to capture that then gives you control of the District.
A big issue we have right now is that no matter how much data the game now gives you on what your fight is doing in the greater New Eden universe, it just doesn't FEEL that way while you're playing. I believe that keeping a 48-player(future) match-based structure but using creative elements to make each match feel like part of a greater fight would go a long way toward setting Dust apart from the pack.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4557
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Posted - 2013.11.19 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122169&find=unread
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7128
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sky spawning added to the list of player proposed stuff
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's TIME.
Players, I think that is the one core asset that you're not reflecting on here (but yes, you are reflecting on a lot of good ideas here. Um, except the mechs and the cloaking, because they are sci-fi concepts that I just HATED in every game I've played except Killzone).
I can't read the devs minds, and they don't do a lot of explaining about the past, but the goal with this game was (still IS) to be a slave-companion to EVE Online. A clone merc doesn't fight. Outside of the EVE lore that says we're in this because of a violent desire that for the time being causes us to be "restricted" to the Molden Heath sector of space,... Dust 514 is conceived to give EVE capsuleers the chance to "own" and "develop" planets on a surface-level. THEY travel entire systems of planets, and they choose to hire us (buy us?) for combat on their chosen planets/districts. That means potentially VAST "maps" chosen (or possibly designed via purchased-sockets) by EVE players. The merge is not fully accomplished yet, so at present time we're temporarily stuck with "practice battles" called 'Public Contracts'.
That also means "Drone infestation clean-out" or similar maps chosen by EVE players when they think it's lucrative,... but at present time we're temporarily stuck with no PvE content and room to expand combat goals.
That means gambling yourself in wheel-n-deal arrangements with corp-moguls for a battle that may no pay out big in the end, becomes the core challenge of the game instead of shooting off our toys,... but for now with no real business prospects available, we're starting to dream of more toy types to keep us interested during the boredom time.
I respect your suggestions here, but I don't think Dust needs anything more than just to get over this time period. We can't go anywhere further without EVE's marriage. It's close, yes, I can detect that in the Patches we are getting and that FW chat channel explosion recently. But I can see the prize ahead because I've only been playing this game for six months. Some of you have been at this for plus-2 years, so for you guys the "TIME" endurance must be excruciating!!
2 years of Betas, then the May release that is SORT OF just an additional "Beta", with monthly plug-ins/fixes... the game hasn't really "RELEASED" for us to do what the EVE capsuleers can't do and will be falling over themselves to hire and enable us to do. DANG, this may be SUCH an amazing game when it "get's started"! I don't know if releasing these infant forms of the game was the better idea or masacist's idea---I think it HAS helped cull some gamers away that we're better off without in the long run---but who am I claim that's true for sure.
We're in a waiting game. Wow, LOL, I said a cool new description for Dust. It really is now a "Waiting Game". |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7130
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Posted - 2013.11.20 19:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:It's TIME.
Players, I think that is the one core asset that you're not reflecting on here (but yes, you are reflecting on a lot of good ideas here. Um, except the mechs and the cloaking, because they are sci-fi concepts that I just HATED in every game I've played except Killzone).
I can't read the devs minds, and they don't do a lot of explaining about the past, but the goal with this game was (still IS) to be a slave-companion to EVE Online. A clone merc doesn't fight. Outside of the EVE lore that says we're in this because of a violent desire that for the time being causes us to be "restricted" to the Molden Heath sector of space,... Dust 514 is conceived to give EVE capsuleers the chance to "own" and "develop" planets on a surface-level. THEY travel entire systems of planets, and they choose to hire us (buy us?) for combat on their chosen planets/districts. That means potentially VAST "maps" chosen (or possibly designed via purchased-sockets) by EVE players. The merge is not fully accomplished yet, so at present time we're temporarily stuck with "practice battles" called 'Public Contracts'.
That also means "Drone infestation clean-out" or similar maps chosen by EVE players when they think it's lucrative,... but at present time we're temporarily stuck with no PvE content, no room to expand combat goals.
That means that, instead of working to get better toys, the core challenge of the game becomes gambling yourself in wheel-n-deal arrangements with MEGA-ISK corp-moguls for a battle that may no pay out big in the end,... but for now with no real business interaction programmed yet, we're starting to dream of more toy types to keep us interested during the boredom time.
I respect your suggestions here, but I don't think Dust needs anything more than just to get over this time period. We can't go anywhere further without EVE's marriage. It's close, yes, I can detect that in the Patches we are getting and that FW chat channel explosion recently. But I can see the prize ahead because I've only been playing this game for six months. Some of you have been at this for plus-2 years, so for you guys the "TIME" endurance must be excruciating!!
2 years of Betas, then the May release that is SORT OF just an additional "Beta", with monthly plug-ins/fixes... the game hasn't really "RELEASED" for us to do what the EVE capsuleers can't do and will be falling over themselves to hire and enable us to do. DANG, this may be SUCH an amazing game when it "get's started"! I don't know if releasing these infant forms of the game was the better idea or masacist's idea---I think it HAS helped cull some gamers away that we're better off without in the long run---but who am I claim that's true for sure.
We're in a waiting game. Wow, LOL, I said a cool new description for Dust. It really is now a "Waiting Game".
Though greater EVE connection would be nice, but it would only affect a small minority of the game population. This thread is about the part of gameplay where you go run around and shoot people, not the deep systems behind it. Having deep complex player-driven systems does not make actual gameplay any less painfully bland. Being hired by an EVE player instead of an NPC corp won't make the actual battle more fun for me.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7349
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Posted - 2013.12.08 07:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Still want some spice sprinkled in
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Skihids
Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance
2491
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Posted - 2013.12.08 07:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
What we need is the promised strategic element and a progressive battle.
Gameplay is flat because the match objective is simple and requires nothing more than DPS to achieve.
DUST desperately needs to graduate from being a mindless lobby shooter into a tactical/strategic team based game. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1511
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Posted - 2013.12.08 10:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP SlowPoke wrote:EventuallyGäó
Cheeseburgers.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
503
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Posted - 2013.12.08 10:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Skihids wrote:What we need is the promised strategic element and a progressive battle.
Gameplay is flat because the match objective is simple and requires nothing more than DPS to achieve.
DUST desperately needs to graduate from being a mindless lobby shooter into a tactical/strategic team based game.
Naaah, the fanbois are happy with the patches that should have been implemented on 5/14. |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
245
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Posted - 2013.12.08 14:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Change all suit bonuses to improve effecency of assault class caldari dropsuit, sentinel class amarr dropsuit etc Then add all bonuses directly to the suits
This way each skill could unlock 2-3 suits and they would all be unique and interesting
There would be a large abundance of choice
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
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