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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
724
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Game balance reasons:
* Less focus on tanking and encourages diversity in fittings
* Reduces gap between Assault/Logi health and scout
--- Currently, Assaults and Logis focus on stacking as much eHP as they can. The scout tends to use biotics and scanning modules over increased ehp. Guns damage is balanced around Assaults and Logis. These all add up to guns being able to devastate scouts in a very short amount of time.
Physics reasons:
* As more shields/armor are stacked upon one another, there is more area to cover which leads to decreased thickness in each level of extender/plate. Less thickness means bullets can more easily penetrate the extender/plate.
Possible Exception:
* Heavy suits could be exempt from the stacking penalty
--- Cements them as the defensive tanking suit
--- Could be explained by the heavies having built in hardeners that allow it to strengthen the extenders and plates
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Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
132
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reducing people's hitpoints will not increase the diversity in fittings. The brick tank is king right now because of the low TTK. If you add in stacking penalties that fact does not change. All it will do is decrease the TTK.
You say it yourself that the scout is using modules other than tanking modules, and then complaining they have low ehp. Thats sort of how module choice works. No, scouts are not in a good place right now, but nerfing armor / shield modules (which scouts themselves would use if they wanted more hitpoints) is not the right approach.
I would also like to point out that in EVE, extenders do not have stacking penalties. Better to keep things working the same in both games and fix scouts a different way imo.
EVE - Victor Maximus
DUST - Azri Sarum
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5242
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
People might stack less plates if it wasn't the only way to avoid dying instantly to anything with 'rifle' in its name.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
724
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:Reducing people's hitpoints will not increase the diversity in fittings. The brick tank is king right now because of the low TTK. If you add in stacking penalties that fact does not change. All it will do is decrease the TTK.
You say it yourself that the scout is using modules other than tanking modules, and then complaining they have low ehp. Thats sort of how module choice works. No, scouts are not in a good place right now, but nerfing armor / shield modules (which scouts themselves would use if they wanted more hitpoints) is not the right approach.
I would also like to point out that in EVE, extenders do not have stacking penalties. Better to keep things working the same in both games and fix scouts a different way imo.
The low TTK already needs to be addressed. And even before, damage stacking + eHP incredibly popular.
It would add more diversity for the same reason people don't regularly stack 4 or 5 damage mods. They would get better usage out of their cpu/pg elsewhere.
There is a difference between low eHP and having 1/3 the health of other suits. With that large of a difference, a scout can get the drop on an opponent, the opponent can slowly turn, and then still handily obliterate the scout.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:People might stack less plates if it wasn't the only way to avoid dying instantly to anything with 'rifle' in its name.
You mean any weapon . Not just rifles , any weapon . It's crazy how fast you can die in this game , it makes me think that the shield extenders , armor plates , the two percent efficacy , the additional five percent from the skill set and so on and so on is all for nothing .
" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2013.11.19 00:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Why don't scouts just ask for a buff and stop trying to lower everything else for everybody else . I'm so tired of seeing these anti-everyone and pro-scout threads . Just ask for a buff already or at least have the decency to title your thread the same . To have such a title and for it to only be a scout buff thread in disguise is tiresome and I've noticed that of most of the scout users .
Look you knew what you were getting into when you specked into that class so just deal with it . I DON'T KNOW how many times ( probably most of my deaths recently ) have been from scouts with shotguns . When I look in the upper right of the screen to see who died and how , it's mostly scouts with shotguns that are getting most of the kills . Think I'm bias or lying people , then start paying it some mind and see for yourself . Your already faster then anyone and that leads to an advantage where your overall makeup i.e. HP's lack more than others , but that's part of the trade off .
No knock against you scouts but stop trying to play your mind games and start asking for what you really want . A BUFF !!!!
The one that they just gave you seems not to be either what you wanted , needed or enough .
I really respect you guys and girls but come on
" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
512
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Posted - 2013.11.19 00:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Game balance reasons:
* Less focus on tanking and encourages diversity in fittings
* Reduces gap between Assault/Logi eHP and scout eHP
--- Currently, Assaults and Logis focus on stacking as much eHP as they can. The scout tends to use biotics and scanning modules over increased ehp. Gun damage is balanced around Assaults and Logis. These all add up to guns being able to devastate scouts in a very short amount of time.
Physics reasons:
* As more shields/armor are stacked upon one another, there is more area to cover which leads to decreased thickness in each level of extender/plate. Less thickness means bullets can more easily penetrate the extender/plate.
Possible Exception:
* Heavy suits could be exempt from the stacking penalty
--- Cements them as the defensive tanking suit
--- Could be explained by the heavies having built in hardeners that allow it to strengthen the extenders and plates
Additional plating is already penalized as is the first plate with mobility reductions, while your suggestion would mean that you would just have really slow easier to kill targets running around (snails run I am sure). Shields are not anywhere near the tank module that they used to be so it only makes this more of a one bullet to kill game than it is at the moment. I am really not sure this balances anything.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
724
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Posted - 2013.11.19 00:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:-Snip-
I'm not even hiding that this would be a buff to scouts. And there is no sensible buff the scout could receive that would allow it to actually consistently kill (using surprise tactics) without using situational weaponry (knives, shotguns, sniper rifles, etc.)
And as I said previously, this would only be a nerf if CCP failed to balance guns correctly after adding penalties. Ideally, a brick tanked assault vs another brick tanked assault would still kill each other in the same amount of time as they would after TTK is corrected.
This also allows room for other fittings to be more viable. As it stands (even without the low TTK) there is little to no setback to brick tanking. Armor users may lose some speed but, considering speed was marginally useful before AA and completely went out the window afterwards, the loss is minimal.
You still would be able fill your fit with extenders and plates but just like stacking damange mods, kin cats, cardiac regulators, code breakers, and just about every other module, you would suffer from diminishing return.
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
170
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Posted - 2013.11.19 00:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
increase base HP, and fitting requirements for extenders and plates, lower fitting requirements of all other modules. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:increase base HP, and fitting requirements for extenders and plates, lower fitting requirements of all other modules.
It's already crazy right now as it is . Try fitting on an advanced suit a complex shield extender , advanced damage mod , complex armor extender and a basic armor repairer and use advanced weapons and basic grenades . You can't do it , might not even with your core up to level five even . I only have my core up to level three so I don't know truthfully but I can imagine it would be hard still even to do .
You can't use all advanced mods and weapons on an advanced suit . I don't know about prototype but I can imagine that too seeing how high the computer and programming is for those items and that just defeats the purpose .
" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
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abarkrishna
The Elysian Knights
76
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:hgghyujh wrote:increase base HP, and fitting requirements for extenders and plates, lower fitting requirements of all other modules. You can't use all advanced mods and weapons on an advanced suit . I don't know about prototype but I can imagine that too seeing how high the computer and programming is for those items and that just defeats the purpose .
Incorrect My logi suit has proto armor plates proto dmg mods, adv active scanners, uplinks, and hives. My gun is also advanced. the only thing not advanced or proto on my advanced suit is my cardiac regulator which is std instead of militia.
They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
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Templar 10
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Game balance reasons:
* Less focus on tanking and encourages diversity in fittings
* Reduces gap between Assault/Logi eHP and scout eHP
--- Currently, Assaults and Logis focus on stacking as much eHP as they can. The scout tends to use biotics and scanning modules over increased ehp. Gun damage is balanced around Assaults and Logis. These all add up to guns being able to devastate scouts in a very short amount of time.
Physics reasons:
* As more shields/armor are stacked upon one another, there is more area to cover which leads to decreased thickness in each level of extender/plate. Less thickness means bullets can more easily penetrate the extender/plate.
Possible Exception:
* Heavy suits could be exempt from the stacking penalty
--- Cements them as the defensive tanking suit
--- Could be explained by the heavies having built in hardeners that allow it to strengthen the extenders and plates
lol Serious??? why not penilise scouts for using more than 1 kenitic biotic under the ussumption that putting to much more on them would physically make there legs fall off. dont bring phisical into a game my friend theres 2 sides to every thing ur basically asking assaults and logis to get nerfed. and scouts to get buffed.
u are a strange little man. |
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
2
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Posted - 2013.11.19 03:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:Reducing people's hitpoints will not increase the diversity in fittings. The brick tank is king right now because of the low TTK. If you add in stacking penalties that fact does not change. All it will do is decrease the TTK.
You say it yourself that the scout is using modules other than tanking modules, and then complaining they have low ehp. Thats sort of how module choice works. No, scouts are not in a good place right now, but nerfing armor / shield modules (which scouts themselves would use if they wanted more hitpoints) is not the right approach.
I would also like to point out that in EVE, extenders do not have stacking penalties. Better to keep things working the same in both games and fix scouts a different way imo.
I do mainly use scout suits and I agree with this statement. Forget the stacking penalties on these and just do something to help scouts in another way.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
724
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Posted - 2013.11.19 03:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Templar 10 wrote:lol Serious??? why not penilise scouts for using more than 1 kenitic biotic under the ussumption that putting to much more on them would physically make there legs fall off. dont bring phisical into a game my friend theres 2 sides to every thing ur basically asking assaults and logis to get nerfed. and scouts to get buffed.
u are a strange little man.
Kinetic Catalyzers have stacking penalties already...
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
725
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Posted - 2013.11.19 12:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:increase base HP, and fitting requirements for extenders and plates, lower fitting requirements of all other modules.
This would probably achieve the same result, but would require more time to implement as CCP would need to balance the fitting cost of every single module on the market.
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