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calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 956	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:04:00 - [1] - Quote Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. Do not eat the yellow snow
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1496	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:05:00 - [2] - Quote Stay. Shield Extenders > Damage mods in the current build. I'd rather stack HP with no penalty than use up a slot just to get more damage, which I can do with Proficiency. ö/\ö :D
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Proficiency V. 140	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:07:00 - [3] - Quote calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. i think there is not point to have them if you have proficiency skills for weapons get rid of one of them
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 122	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:07:00 - [4] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Stay. Shield Extenders > Damage mods in the current build. I'd rather stack HP with no penalty than use up a slot just to get more damage, which I can do with Proficiency. I hope you're being sarcastic... Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
VAHZZ The dyst0pian Corporation 226	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:08:00 - [5] - Quote Give sniper scopes a zoom and i wouldn't need any damage mods The merc with a mouth - beware of random bouts of insanity! ~ Proud Sniper
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2206	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:10:00 - [6] - Quote calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders)
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 1098	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:11:00 - [7] - Quote Comp damage mods 10% --> 7-8% Thoughts? For the Empire! Dual tanking is a sin.
DildoMcnutz Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 325	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:12:00 - [8] - Quote This has been brought up before but they should be more creative than a damage buff, they should do things like affect accuracy, RoF, magazine size, modify the percentages of the dmg type and so on. Maybe even have positives and negatives in 1, increase the RoF lower accuracy for example. I dont think they should go but they should change.
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1497	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:12:00 - [9] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Comp damage mods 10% --> 7-8% Thoughts? If they are going to change Damage Mods, then Complex should go down to at least 6% Basic 2% Enhanced 4% ö/\ö :D
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 956	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:14:00 - [10] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. Do not eat the yellow snow
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2206	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:14:00 - [11] - Quote DildoMcnutz wrote: This has been brought up before but they should be more creative than a damage buff, they should do things like affect accuracy, RoF, magazine size, modify the percentages of the dmg type and so on. Maybe even have positives and negatives in 1, increase the RoF lower accuracy for example. I dont think they should go but they should change. I personally think CCP should implement a fitting system for weapons (The modules would be like faster reload speed, increased fire rate, different scopes, reduced recoil and a lot of other things). This would allow for even deeper customization.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 48	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:16:00 - [12] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Stay. Shield Extenders > Damage mods in the current build. I'd rather stack HP with no penalty than use up a slot just to get more damage, which I can do with Proficiency. I hope you're being sarcastic... I've made the math countless times and in the end Shield Ext = Damage mods. Two exact copies of (in my example) Amarr logis ADV , but one with 3X Cx Damage Mods and the other with 3X Cx Shield extenders and both took the SAME amount of bullets to drop the other one. THE EXACT SAME. Is just how you prefer to play thats all. Me myself prefer dual tanking with my amarr assault and use 2 Cx shield ext and enh armor plates + armor reps for a total of 700 ish EHP.... While other people would prefer damage mods and running 500 EHP...
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1873	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:16:00 - [13] - Quote more then 2 complex damage mods on a suit is just overkill and a waste of CPU+PG. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:18:00 - [14] - Quote I think there are ALOT more important basic mechanics fixes that need to be done first before removing things randomly all the time. But then again, I Just got skilled into Complex Damage mods. LOL
Tectonic Fusion 567	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:23:00 - [15] - Quote Suanar Daranaus wrote: I think there are ALOT more important basic mechanics fixes that need to be done first before removing things randomly all the time. But then again, I Just got skilled into Complex Damage mods. LOL All I know is the 10% damage mods are the only damage mods that are worth it, and I would gladly accept a respec if they got nerfed, as they are not as nearly as OP as the chromosome build stats. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10331	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:25:00 - [16] - Quote They should stay for sure we just need to adjust TTK elsewhere. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2206	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:30:00 - [17] - Quote calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. I can tell you there are. If you want proof stack damage mods on a sniper shoot someone once then afk for the rest of the game. The end of match screen tells you how much total damage you did.
GRIM GEAR Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 49	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:31:00 - [18] - Quote calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. I am agreeing to disagree with you on that one; It states in the Damage mod description that any kind of module that changes the same stat receives the stacking penalty. On to the matter at hand I think damage modules should stay, the reason being is that they contribute to the overall depth of customizing our drop suits. Whether he or she want's to use them or not is totally up to them. It's a bird! No it's a plane! Never mind it's just my shotgun in your face!
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 956	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:32:00 - [19] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. I can tell you there are. If you want proof stack damage mods on a sniper shoot someone once then afk for the rest of the game. The end of match screen tells you how much total damage you did. Your idea is one way, but that would take to many matches and would hurt your team. Do not eat the yellow snow
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2208	Posted - 2013.11.17 00:40:00 - [20] - Quote calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. I can tell you there are. If you want proof stack damage mods on a sniper shoot someone once then afk for the rest of the game. The end of match screen tells you how much total damage you did. Your idea is one way, but that would take to many matches and would hurt your team. Also does not were the shot land depend on the damage. So there is to many variables. I believe the only difference in damage is only for critical hits. (headshots) Plus it would only take one match to calculate the damage as long as you get a body shot. (Really even if you got a headshot you would just have to take into account the headshot bonus) If it doesn't have a stacking penalty it would be a 50% damage increase if it does it would have about 31.3% extra damage unless the source I'm looking at is wrong in which then it would take a bit longer to actually find out what the stacking penalty really is.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1658	Posted - 2013.11.17 00:43:00 - [21] - Quote They definitely need to go. They have seriously screwed up the game. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1059	Posted - 2013.11.17 00:44:00 - [22] - Quote Only allow one Damage mod per type. ie; Only 1 Light Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Heavy Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Sidearm Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Maybe we could even adjust them by tier, such as 3 allowed if their all basic, 2 allowed for enhanced, and only 1 for the complex tier. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5118	Posted - 2013.11.17 00:47:00 - [23] - Quote Stay. They're not the problem - the problem is the sheer power of hitscan weapons. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2208	Posted - 2013.11.17 00:48:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: Only allow one Damage mod per type. ie; Only 1 Light Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Heavy Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Sidearm Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Maybe we could even adjust them by tier, such as 3 allowed if their all basic, 2 allowed for enhanced, and only 1 for the complex tier. Or do something else such as make the stacking penalty even worse, make CPU and/or PG requirments higher, make the actual skill to get dmg mods require more SP, lower the damage mod values, and many other things that wouldn't hurt diversity since this game is supposed to have deep customization.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 220	Posted - 2013.11.17 00:58:00 - [25] - Quote Tough call. I currently run 3 complex on my sniper/AV builds for the extra 25% or so damage, but I can see how they are throwing off game balance. On one hand, you could argue that SRs across the board need a buff; but in order to do that, you'd really need to boost the base EHP for suits. I always feel a bit dirty after one-shotting a red with my Kaalakiota, then arriving at the end of the battle and seeing that the player went 0-12 for the match. How long are people willing to spend getting stomped like that? On the other hand, following the recent buffs to armor you'll notice quite a few more armor tankers out there and it's hard to take them out without landing at least one headshot. I guess it breaks down into 1. Make it harder to kill militia/standard gear, and 2. Make it easier to kill the armor-tanking protos. I just don't know how this can be achieved without major changes being made... Life is killing me.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 4	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:01:00 - [26] - Quote Stay. Without em i can't break that 500 dmg mark with a sniper... Without it it'll take alot of shots to kill a heavy or even a proto assualt. Edit: Forgot swarms and such.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 220	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:02:00 - [27] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Atiim wrote: Only allow one Damage mod per type. ie; Only 1 Light Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Heavy Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Sidearm Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Maybe we could even adjust them by tier, such as 3 allowed if their all basic, 2 allowed for enhanced, and only 1 for the complex tier. Or do something else such as make the stacking penalty even worse, make CPU and/or PG requirments higher, make the actual skill to get dmg mods require more SP, lower the damage mod values, and many other things that wouldn't hurt diversity since this game is supposed to have deep customization. I think one change should be using damage mods results in a lower rate of fire for some weapons (single-shot weapons such as the SR--the difference between firing a Kaalakiota and a Thale is quite noticeable) or increasing the kick of automatic weapons. As of right now, there's little to lose (aside from shield health) by running more than one damage mod. Life is killing me.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2209	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:09:00 - [28] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Atiim wrote: Only allow one Damage mod per type. ie; Only 1 Light Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Heavy Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Only 1 Sidearm Weapon Damage Modifier per suit Maybe we could even adjust them by tier, such as 3 allowed if their all basic, 2 allowed for enhanced, and only 1 for the complex tier. Or do something else such as make the stacking penalty even worse, make CPU and/or PG requirments higher, make the actual skill to get dmg mods require more SP, lower the damage mod values, and many other things that wouldn't hurt diversity since this game is supposed to have deep customization. I think one change should be using damage mods results in a lower rate of fire for some weapons (single-shot weapons such as the SR--the difference between firing a Kaalakiota and a Thale is quite noticeable) or increasing the kick of automatic weapons. As of right now, there's little to lose (aside from shield health) by running more than one damage mod. No I'm saying running more then 3 complex damage mods is a waste since the 4th and 5th dmg mods only give a total of 5% extra damage
Duran Lex Xer Cloud Consortium 390	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:12:00 - [29] - Quote I wish i had the options of running more then 1-2 high slots.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 368	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:14:00 - [30] - Quote calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. Wow, what a terrible understanding of dusts/eves game mechanics you have sir. Here, alow me to illuminate you: These are the stacking penalties: 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness As well, it doesn't mater whether the mod is basic, enhanced or complex. What maters is the effect the mod is applying. So if you are stacking two complex and an enhanced your second complex is going to be worth 1.0869 damage buff, and your enhanced is going to be worth 1.0285 damage buff. Where as, if you had been stacking three complex instead, your third complex would have been worth 1.0571 damage buff. {:)}{3GÇó>
Paran Tadec Imperfect Bastards 1657	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:19:00 - [31] - Quote Limit suits to 1 dmg mod. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 957	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:20:00 - [32] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. Wow, what a terrible understanding of dusts/eves game mechanics you have sir. Here, alow me to illuminate you: These are the stacking penalties: 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness As well, it doesn't mater whether the mod is basic, enhanced or complex. What maters is the effect the mod is applying. So if you are stacking two complex and an enhanced your second complex is going to be worth 1.0869 damage buff, and your enhanced is going to be worth 1.0285 damage buff. Where as, if you had been stacking three complex instead, your third complex would have been worth 1.0571 damage buff. Ok now please provide proof of what you say and do not point to a a forum post. We need hard facts, like I said it needs to show on you stat sheet when you apply them. Also stacking penalties only apply to the level the are classified in. Complex effects complex not advance or basic. Without proof we are just estimating, some will tell you there is no stacking penalty and run 5 complex and do very well. Also back in beta these stats were posted. When we asked CCP to correct them, they F**** removed them. Ya that was there fix to the problem. Do not eat the yellow snow
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2210	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:22:00 - [33] - Quote calvin b wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. Wow, what a terrible understanding of dusts/eves game mechanics you have sir. Here, alow me to illuminate you: These are the stacking penalties: 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness As well, it doesn't mater whether the mod is basic, enhanced or complex. What maters is the effect the mod is applying. So if you are stacking two complex and an enhanced your second complex is going to be worth 1.0869 damage buff, and your enhanced is going to be worth 1.0285 damage buff. Where as, if you had been stacking three complex instead, your third complex would have been worth 1.0571 damage buff. Ok now please provide proof of what you say and do not point to a a forum post. We need hard facts, like I said it needs to show on you stat sheet when you apply them. Also stacking penalties only apply to the level the are classified in. Complex effects complex not advance or basic. Without proof we are just estimating, some will tell you there is no stacking penalty and run 5 complex and do very well. Do the test I told you about and give me the numbers with 5 complex damage mods equipped and I'll calculate it for you. I would do it myself but my TV just broke the other day and I don't have another one.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 957	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:25:00 - [34] - Quote I will do the test, but the question still remains. Do they stay or should we move in a different direction? Do not eat the yellow snow
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2210	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:26:00 - [35] - Quote calvin b wrote: I will do the test, but the question still remains. Do they stay or should we move in a different direction? I think they should stay but CCP should modify them a bit and display the correct damage given clearly in the fitting screen.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 368	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:33:00 - [36] - Quote calvin b wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. Wow, what a terrible understanding of dusts/eves game mechanics you have sir. Here, alow me to illuminate you: These are the stacking penalties: 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness As well, it doesn't mater whether the mod is basic, enhanced or complex. What maters is the effect the mod is applying. So if you are stacking two complex and an enhanced your second complex is going to be worth 1.0869 damage buff, and your enhanced is going to be worth 1.0285 damage buff. Where as, if you had been stacking three complex instead, your third complex would have been worth 1.0571 damage buff. Ok now please provide proof of what you say and do not point to a a forum post. We need hard facts, like I said it needs to show on you stat sheet when you apply them. Also stacking penalties only apply to the level the are classified in. Complex effects complex not advance or basic. Without proof we are just estimating, some will tell you there is no stacking penalty and run 5 complex and do very well. Also back in beta these stats were posted. When we asked CCP to correct them, they F**** removed them. Ya that was there fix to the problem. It's really easy if you have some simple mathematics skills. The best way to go about doing it would be with the armor plates movement penalty and the proto Gal logi. Use complex plates and do the calculations with the variables I have insisted are correct, then check the movement speed on the suit stats to verify. But remember that movement penalty is a negative effect, unlike the damage mods which are a positive effect, so the stacking penalty works in reverse, and takes into acount the smallest percentage first; where as the damage mods take into account the highest percentage first (diminishing returns) thus providing for higher returns. Hope you got all that. I'm not explaining it a second time. {:)}{3GÇó>
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1170	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:38:00 - [37] - Quote calvin b wrote: Ok now please provide proof of what you say and do not point to a a forum post. We need hard facts, like I said it needs to show on you stat sheet when you apply them. Calvin bud, the tests have been done multiple times in multiple thread at multiple points in DUST's development. I can do my best digging for you if you like, but the answers are going to be in a forum post, which doesn't meet your criteria. I can tell you that I'm incredibly skeptical of "facts" without data, and I can tell you that this issue has been settled for a long while. There is currently, and has always been, a stacking penalty for damage mods... going all the way back to closed beta. Quote: Also back in beta these stats were posted. When we asked CCP to correct them, they F** removed them. Ya that was there fix to the problem. The posted stats were wrong. I agree, CCP effed up by going, "Hmm, people are getting the wrong idea based on a stat on the fitting screen. What should we do to fix it? I HAVE AN IDEA! Remove it all together!" It was pure laziness. But the stat always displayed wrong. Damage mods are only of true maximum benefit to suits with very high HP (Heavies and some Logis) and to people who don't intend to get shot at (snipers, AV people, and some creative ScR users). Otherwise, more HP always wins in a straight-up fight. I like the ideas of making them more interesting than the boring +10% damage, but I strongly disagree they should be removed from the game. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ** pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 390	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:39:00 - [38] - Quote calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. Not to derail the conversation, but do you consider someone who has raised their AR to 5, AR Proficiency to 5, and weapon upgrades to 5 to be unskilled? That is quite a grind for a new player, then there are the fitting skills to take into account to be able to use such a setup. Anyways, I believe they are fine. You can test the damage mod stacking penalties by syncing and using the Tac AR against a 'friendly' raspberry heavy. Though we don't have the ability in match to take the percentages past the decimal, the expected damage and the damage profiles line up nicely with the EvE formula for damage ( Base * ((1 + (Mods - Penalty)) * (1 + Proficiency))) * Profile modifier TTK is a result of too many variables, all having their origin in how we choose to play and fight and win. IWS hit it on the nose in his post on the subject, you can't adjust it without unbalancing something else. Personally I think they should abandon the ten percent changes and go with two percent changes. Granted this is called tweaking.
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 368	Posted - 2013.11.17 01:56:00 - [39] - Quote calvin b wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: calvin b wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. You do know that complex damage mod number 4 and 5 are useless thanks to stacking penalty (For both 4 and 5 you get a total of 5% extra damage so I suggest switching the last two with shield extenders) So we are told, but without clear proof from CCP we can just be spinning our wheels. You can stack 3 Complex and 2 advance and you are not wasting your time. But for all we know there might not be a stacking penalty, no body can tell for there is no proof. There should be a stat located on your suit build showing as you place an item like damage mods they are reduce, but sadly there is not. Wow, what a terrible understanding of dusts/eves game mechanics you have sir. Here, alow me to illuminate you: These are the stacking penalties: 1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness 2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness 3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness 4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness-á 5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness 6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness As well, it doesn't mater whether the mod is basic, enhanced or complex. What maters is the effect the mod is applying. So if you are stacking two complex and an enhanced your second complex is going to be worth 1.0869 damage buff, and your enhanced is going to be worth 1.0285 damage buff. Where as, if you had been stacking three complex instead, your third complex would have been worth 1.0571 damage buff. Ok now please provide proof of what you say and do not point to a a forum post. We need hard facts, like I said it needs to show on you stat sheet when you apply them. Also stacking penalties only apply to the level the are classified in. Complex effects complex not advance or basic. Without proof we are just estimating, some will tell you there is no stacking penalty and run 5 complex and do very well. Also back in beta these stats were posted. When we asked CCP to correct them, they F**** removed them. Ya that was there fix to the problem. Damn I had to rewrite this BS. Erased it some how by accident. Look it's really simple if you have a little basic mathematics skills. Use the proto Gal logi and the complex armor plates. Use the variables that I insisted earlier were correct. But keep in mind that the stacking penalty works in reverse for the armor plates since it is a negative effect unlike the damage mods which are a positive effect. With the armor plates, instead of taking into account the highest percentage first it will take into account the lowest percentage first (diminishing returns) thus providing for higher returns. There hope you got that this time cause I'm not explaining it again. {:)}{3GÇó>
PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 90	Posted - 2013.11.17 02:10:00 - [40] - Quote Why DMG mods ruin the game ? Well CCP made a mistake here to, DMG mods are supose to be low slot modules NOT high slot. Its the same with hacking and speed modules, they are supose to be high slot modules NOT low slot. Why they did this i really dont know, but i quess its like all the other things they **** up, they forgot to look at how the races are and how and what modules they use in Eve / New Eden, and somehow they turned some things completly around, its **** up and they should get it fixed FAST.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2210	Posted - 2013.11.17 02:13:00 - [41] - Quote Removed or restricted. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 A grunt of STB
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 498	Posted - 2013.11.17 02:37:00 - [42] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: DildoMcnutz wrote: This has been brought up before but they should be more creative than a damage buff, they should do things like affect accuracy, RoF, magazine size, modify the percentages of the dmg type and so on. Maybe even have positives and negatives in 1, increase the RoF lower accuracy for example. I dont think they should go but they should change. I personally think CCP should implement a fitting system for weapons (The modules would be like faster reload speed, increased fire rate, different scopes, reduced recoil and a lot of other things). This would allow for even deeper customization. This is exactly what I've been preaching for the past few weeks.You could have a slot for damage mods,suppressors,extended ammo clips,and stability mods. Having certain weapon attributes tied into your dropsuit really doesn't make any sense. Overall,I don't mind damage mods,but I think they shoud definitely take out the stacking of them,or massively increase the penalty for staking. I would make the second mod only 25% as effective as the first,and all after that at 5%.As it is now,it still doesn't feel like there's any real penalty for stacking two or more mods.This is something that really needs to change.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2296	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:02:00 - [43] - Quote Send um to hell.... Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 A grunt of STB
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3902	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:06:00 - [44] - Quote Stop. Just, *******, stop. This debate is stupid and old and it was always shown that damage mods are fine. You guys are wasting your time. I know TTK is bad so you blame damage mods, but NEWS FLASH, you die instantly with or without damage mods Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cosgar ParagonX 8006	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:21:00 - [45] - Quote Stay since you have to fit them and give something up. Remove proficiency and re-balance all weapons. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
HYENAKILLER X TEAM SHINOBI 347	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:52:00 - [46] - Quote calvin b wrote: Should they be removed or stay? My opinion they give unskilled players an advantage over those who are skilled. When you stack 5 damage mods and run a proto weapon with proficiency 5 it does not take much to kill anything. Take away the mods and the TTK would be reduced and could solve the current issues we are facing. This again is my opinion. No unskilled player is getting by on damage mods. Thats insane. If you suck, the very last thing you want is less sheilds. Also damage mods arent really that good untill you get complex and adv/proto weapon mix. You are welcome for my leadership
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 864	Posted - 2013.11.23 09:05:00 - [47] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Stay. Shield Extenders > Damage mods in the current build. I'd rather stack HP with no penalty than use up a slot just to get more damage, which I can do with Proficiency. I hope you're being sarcastic... Shield Extenders have always been mathematically a better choice. A complex shield extender will keep you alive longer than a complex damage mod will shorten your enemies life. With stacking penalties, shield extenders are clearly better. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 864	Posted - 2013.11.23 09:22:00 - [48] - Quote PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: Why DMG mods ruin the game ? Well CCP made a mistake here to, DMG mods are supose to be low slot modules NOT high slot. Its the same with hacking and speed modules, they are supose to be high slot modules NOT low slot. Why they did this i really dont know, but i quess its like all the other things they **** up, they forgot to look at how the races are and how and what modules they use in Eve / New Eden, and somehow they turned some things completly around, its ** up and they should get it fixed FAST. We don't have mid slots in this game even, so some changes were made. Also, maybe damage mods are comparatively larger for dropshots than they are for ships? It can easily be explained away with lore. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]** Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 27	Posted - 2013.11.23 09:25:00 - [49] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Kal Kronos wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Stay. Shield Extenders > Damage mods in the current build. I'd rather stack HP with no penalty than use up a slot just to get more damage, which I can do with Proficiency. I hope you're being sarcastic... I've made the math countless times and in the end Shield Ext = Damage mods. Two exact copies of (in my example) Amarr logis ADV , but one with 3X Cx Damage Mods and the other with 3X Cx Shield extenders and both took the SAME amount of bullets to drop the other one. THE EXACT SAME. Is just how you prefer to play thats all. Me myself prefer dual tanking with my amarr assault and use 2 Cx shield ext and enh armor plates + armor reps for a total of 700 ish EHP.... While other people would prefer damage mods and running 500 EHP... i run 800 EHP and two complex damage mods on my gallente assault somethings wrong with your suit. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Rusty Shallows 541	Posted - 2013.11.23 09:53:00 - [50] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Limit suits to 1 dmg mod. Read my mind. Except a slight difference. Only one of each type (sidearm, light, heavy) per d-suit. If anything it will help cut back on how some weapons seem perfectly fine in some people hands but suddenly OP with others. On the downside some weapons have had nerfs that were influenced by stacking Complex Damage Mods (sniper rifle & swarm launchers). It would be a second indirect nerfing. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
Infamous Erich Inf4m0us 46	Posted - 2013.11.23 10:29:00 - [51] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: more then 2 complex damage mods on a suit is just overkill and a waste of CPU+PG. So your telling me that charge snipers with 3x damage mods hitting 450 is waste? Closed Beta Vet Shield Tank Vet Bring back my Sagaris
The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 68	Posted - 2013.11.23 11:25:00 - [52] - Quote 2/4/6 or 3/5/7 % with sharper stacking penalties or steeper reqs, maybe make them actively tax suit resources over time while weapon is firing so that when they exceed the cpu/pg, they shut down and/or negatively affect the performance other modules on the suit. (I wish more mods in general were active and could be implemented that way, like hardeners/rechargers/reppers/kin cats/damps.) Would make cpu/pg upgrade mods much more important, and they themselves could have active variants. As they stand, stacking 2+ complex results in INSANE damage output for anything with a decent rof. With ttk already a problem, they push things completely over the edge for a game that is allegedly not intended to be a twitch shooter.
Scheherazade VII 174	Posted - 2013.11.23 11:42:00 - [53] - Quote Why don't you have it where you train weapon skills properly and unlock attachments like in BF3? Then train the attachments and individual skills by way of achieving certain in-game tasks? Remove the damage modification, introduce some skill. GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 151	Posted - 2013.11.23 12:16:00 - [54] - Quote Personally I don't think they ever should have existed.....they should buff things about the weapon not just add raw damage Modules that increase ROF....range.....reload speed......silencers.....things that control recoil......buff damage vs armor or shields or that increase or modify your optimal range... Just raw damage mods are boring
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 1	Posted - 2013.11.23 12:37:00 - [55] - Quote Interesting very interesting, you mean I wouldn't get dropped in 2 seconds like playing COD. +1
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 140	Posted - 2013.11.23 15:56:00 - [56] - Quote Get good guys. You are talking about such a small fraction of damage that you all have access to, and unless you are already tanked up there are more efficient methods ANYWAYS, as it stands the CPU sink for three complex mods is huge and the last module is only around 5%. As for he common sense argument, mods should be on the weapon not on the suit, I completely agree. Adding customization on a weapon by weapon basis would allow for even more diversity, I would leave damage mods as an option, but it would be one of multiple options. One of the technical hurdles that this would generate would a HUGE amount of work for the art team to make two new models (High/low def) for each "visible" variant or combination of variants.

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