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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
377
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Posted - 2013.11.16 17:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
So today was the day my son's been waiting for. He got to take my alt into the Academy so that I can track his Dust experience as a Dust noob.
Some background. He plays CoD (from MW up to Ghosts), Gears, SpaceMarine, Halo (all), and has dabbled in Dust on this character. I consider him a fairly accomplished player, he wipes the floor with me when we go head to head (not hard to do, lol), and he always finishes in the top positions in games.
We started from bare bones, following the tutorials. First tutorial, find and start a battle. So we did. It was a Domination. It didn't end well for the redberries. It may not have been very fair, as he knew from watching me play that he had to hack turrets, the control point, and supply depots. But gun game wise, it wasn't even close. He died twice due to his unfamiliarity with my PS3 controller and the button layouts. We're a R2 trigger family. Stupid PS3... 
Speaking of gun game, this shouldn't be happening. The AR shouldn't be shooting out to 84m.  Let alone the militia AR.
Here is his battle report. Is he the best. No, obviously not. But, we're continuing the tutorials, and he is struggling through the fittings, the augmentations, and getting kills outside of the Academy. His second game was w/ Nyain San, and despite following them around, he failed to get a kill, and died twice. It's hard to keep up with the pros.
And now I hear the whining while I'm typing this. This test may be short lived...  |
Dengru
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
149
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
You can change the controller layout to one that has fire mapped to R2 |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
377
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dengru wrote:You can change the controller layout to one that has fire mapped to R2
Unfortunately, the rest of the button layout is garbage. |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
1487
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Matchmaking sucks, the SP for the Academy is far too low, and ARs have too much range with too much power.
What else is new?
ö/\ö :D
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Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Matchmaking sucks, the SP for the Academy is far too low, and ARs have too much range with too much power.
What else is new?
You forgot to add that CCP isn't doing anything about it .. as usual xD
Join the Revolution
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact
Cult of War
1093
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
The one thing is really wish they would add in the tutorial is some way to push the noobs coming straight into the game to try to get them to join a player corp. In New Eden corps mean a whole lot more than in any other FPS games on console. So i really wish CCP would update the tutorial and try to get people to join corps as it is fundamental at this point.
For the Empire!
Dual tanking is a sin.
Well fuck me I can say fuck in my sig, who knew?
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
963
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think even having a little knowledge of game mechanics gives such an edge over other players, and its an advantage that many fail to recognize. So while proto stomping is obviously annoying, simply knowing exactly how weapons work, where good spots on maps are, and how much damage you can take before dying give you such an advantage that it's insane.
It is for this reason that refining the New Player Experience is SO important. Giving people the tools they need to be successful both on and off the battlefield is what makes the difference between a great first experience, and one that makes them delete the game.
ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1235
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Dengru wrote:You can change the controller layout to one that has fire mapped to R2 Unfortunately, the rest of the button layout is garbage. I'd really like to reiterate on this topic. The button layouts. They are your direct interface with the game. If you can't control your character the way you'd like to, you're ******. Why CCP, why isn't this a priority?!
It should be. If it doesn't show up in 1.7 we should make a point of getting it prioritized. Same for kb/m. These are fundamental sooner-rather-than-later player experience issues.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1235
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I think even having a little knowledge of game mechanics gives such an edge over other players, and its an advantage that many fail to recognize. So while proto stomping is obviously annoying, simply knowing exactly how weapons work, where good spots on maps are, and how much damage you can take before dying give you such an advantage that it's insane.
It is for this reason that refining the New Player Experience is SO important. Giving people the tools they need to be successful both on and off the battlefield is what makes the difference between a great first experience, and one that makes them delete the game.
+1. Have to support this.
Player knowledge/playstyle is the Primary variable, Skillpoints and ISK/gear are secondary variables.
I support SP rollover.
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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
379
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Posted - 2013.11.16 21:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I think even having a little knowledge of game mechanics gives such an edge over other players, and its an advantage that many fail to recognize. So while proto stomping is obviously annoying, simply knowing exactly how weapons work, where good spots on maps are, and how much damage you can take before dying give you such an advantage that it's insane.
It is for this reason that refining the New Player Experience is SO important. Giving people the tools they need to be successful both on and off the battlefield is what makes the difference between a great first experience, and one that makes them delete the game.
He spent his SP poorly, so I made him make a new character. He went 21/2 this time, lol. 1420 WP in the same Domination map. Blueberries and redberries alike, just running around, not hacking, not shooting.
He definitely struggled in the MM hopper. He had some good games, going 5/0 once, and finishing positive occasionally, but mostly just uncompetitive. I don't think it was the gear. He would die just the same to proto weapons as militia/BPO weapons. He'd get stomped by squads, plain and simple. He rolled solo, cus that's how most noobs do. Hell, even I play solo mostly, as there is no time investment required. I can come and go and not worry about affecting others play times.
Besides going up against coordinated squads, I can tell his battlefield awareness is really poor. Even with the red chevron, he'd often miss a chance on his opponent. Get the enemy outside of his HUD range, and he never saw what hit him.
One other thing of note, watching him play, I was in awe(again) at how horrible the spawn mechanics are. I know they suck, from my own experience, but watching him go through it was aggravating.  One of the biggest problems are uplinks. If there is an uplink down, and you push smart deploy, more often then not you spawn on that uplink. If you know it's being camped, you can't do anything about it. This needs to change. |
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Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
1490
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Posted - 2013.11.16 22:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:One other thing of note, watching him play, I was in awe(again) at how horrible the spawn mechanics are. I know they suck, from my own experience, but watching him go through it was aggravating. One of the biggest problems are uplinks. If there is an uplink down, and you push smart deploy, more often then not you spawn on that uplink. If you know it's being camped, you can't do anything about it. This needs to change.
I think the entire spawn mechanics need to be rebuilt, and not just in Ambush, although that's where most problems are.
Spawn in where someone is shooting a Mass Driver, die.
Especially on Ashland Skirmish, I spawn on Bravo and it puts me next to the CRU between Bravo and Charlie. Instant death if anyone is around.
ö/\ö :D
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The Eristic
Sad Panda Solutions
68
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Posted - 2013.11.16 22:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Started a new alt a couple days back, red tanks were camping the ground spawn in my academy battle. Fortunately, they were scrubs and the tanks were cheap, so a couple blues and I blew them up with the starter AV. They immediately called in more and tried again, though. Classy. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10327
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Posted - 2013.11.16 22:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Real World stuff:
Pistols are typically 50 meters effective range
Rifles are about 400-500 meter effective range
Snipers up to 1500+
Effective range being 50% accuracy + kill capacity against a human target
Most guns kill velocities are about 3x further than their effective range.
That aside, I do agree the fitting tutorial needs far more improvements, focusing on fitting 'excellence' and skill point expenditure.
Matchmaking needs to work out much better as well.
NPE just needs a hell lot more tools period though.
Its not like I hate to say it our most effective NPE tool is other players even with all the improved NPE tools are put in there is no substitute for a Dust Uni instructor or a corp that has a training division.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
1494
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Posted - 2013.11.16 22:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Real World stuff:
Pistols are typically 50 meters effective range
Rifles are about 400-500 meter effective range
Snipers up to 1500+
This game is anything but realistic.
I throw an M1 Locus Grenade, someone stands over it and takes no damage.
But I'm insta-killed when a Militia Locus Grenade blows up 6+ meters away...
ö/\ö :D
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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
381
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Posted - 2013.11.16 22:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Real World stuff:
Pistols are typically 50 meters effective range
Rifles are about 400-500 meter effective range
Snipers up to 1500+
Effective range being 50% accuracy + kill capacity against a human target
Most guns kill velocities are about 3x further than their effective range.
That aside, I do agree the fitting tutorial needs far more improvements, focusing on fitting 'excellence' and skill point expenditure.
Matchmaking needs to work out much better as well.
NPE just needs a hell lot more tools period though.
Its not like I hate to say it our most effective NPE tool is other players even with all the improved NPE tools are put in there is no substitute for a Dust Uni instructor or a corp that has a training division.
I bolded the irrelevent part. On that topic though, I'd be down if CCP used real world ranges on their weapons. But they don't. Also, I'm pretty confident that the documented AR range is not 84 meters. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10331
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Real World stuff:
Pistols are typically 50 meters effective range
Rifles are about 400-500 meter effective range
Snipers up to 1500+
Effective range being 50% accuracy + kill capacity against a human target
Most guns kill velocities are about 3x further than their effective range.
That aside, I do agree the fitting tutorial needs far more improvements, focusing on fitting 'excellence' and skill point expenditure.
Matchmaking needs to work out much better as well.
NPE just needs a hell lot more tools period though.
Its not like I hate to say it our most effective NPE tool is other players even with all the improved NPE tools are put in there is no substitute for a Dust Uni instructor or a corp that has a training division. I bolded the irrelevent part. On that topic though, I'd be down if CCP used real world ranges on their weapons. But they don't. Also, I'm pretty confident that the documented AR range is not 84 meters.
It's like 300 max range and 80 effective before the massive drop off Curve is a steady plateau until the drop off.
ARs are getting adjusted so the start of the drop off is shifting to the lowest of all rifles.
Laser rifle is a hill around the same range that slowly builds up to a peak before its steep drop off.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
382
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
It's like 300 max range and 80 effective before the massive drop off Curve is a steady plateau until the drop off.
ARs are getting adjusted so the start of the drop off is shifting to the lowest of all rifles.
Laser rifle is a hill around the same range that slowly builds up to a peak before its steep drop off.
Link please? Someone made a range chart showing max range and optimal. Are you saying the AR can hit out to 300 meters? I have a hard time believing that.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10331
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
It's like 300 max range and 80 effective before the massive drop off Curve is a steady plateau until the drop off.
ARs are getting adjusted so the start of the drop off is shifting to the lowest of all rifles.
Laser rifle is a hill around the same range that slowly builds up to a peak before its steep drop off.
Link please? Someone made a range chart showing max range and optimal. Are you saying the AR can hit out to 300 meters? I have a hard time believing that.
Sorry this is the top of my head from what I remember seeing. Need to book mark more things ><
Yeah it sucks the ranges in dust 514 are lines, not numbers.
The information in following thread puts a better idea where ranges might be rather soon
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117279&find=unread
What I meant by max range is that bullets don't suddenly disappear at long ranges they may just hit like a bag of feathers past effective. 3
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Tectonic Fusion
567
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Thor McStrut wrote:One other thing of note, watching him play, I was in awe(again) at how horrible the spawn mechanics are. I know they suck, from my own experience, but watching him go through it was aggravating. One of the biggest problems are uplinks. If there is an uplink down, and you push smart deploy, more often then not you spawn on that uplink. If you know it's being camped, you can't do anything about it. This needs to change. I think the entire spawn mechanics need to be rebuilt, and not just in Ambush, although that's where most problems are. Spawn in where someone is shooting a Mass Driver, die. Especially on Ashland Skirmish, I spawn on Bravo and it puts me next to the CRU between Bravo and Charlie. Instant death if anyone is around. Best luck to your son, should he not give up this game in frustration like most others do.
But mostly ARs and grenades. Sometimes remote explosives.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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