I like this.

There should probably still be some SP from WP cap just to account for any WP farming issues that may crop up. Just make it something that most people won't be likely to reach.

This SP system need to be revamped to all passive training queues like in EVE Laurent. The current system is not good enough for a game in 2013. It feels like a RPG skill system from the 90s. Streamline, streamline and streamline...

Like we say in Sweden: "You cannot add makeup to an old ugly Volvo car to make it look good" (Very rough translation of the saying).

A full passive system would also prohibit WP farming to gain insane amount of SP. It is the only way dust could ever be balanced SP wise between HC grind players and people with a life outside of new eden.

This thread has grown into a much more complicated discussion than the merits of a rollover mechanic. It did last time around too. We are now discussing the entire sp system and game design. Probably unavoidable since these things are connected and bear directly on player experiences for noobs and vets alike.

Laurent, i have a lot of respect for the opinions you present on the forums. They are typically well thought out and you have the best interests of the game as the central focus of your posts.

ITT, i like what your post brings to the conversation. I agree with your design goals, perhaps with the caveat that at some point skill points lost is an ok thing. But that's a minor quibble and i'm willing to be neutral on that point.

What i vehemently disagree with is your endorsement of the in-match passive skillpoint rewards(5sp/s) originally introduced by CCP(and without consulting the playerbase). The motivations are noble: to provide a helping hand to struggling players, to limit the magnitude of the skillpoint gap between casuals and grinders and to support various playstyles. However, best intentions notwithstanding, the passive in-match sp mechanic is ultimately destructive and i'm sure we can find many constructive alternatives that contribute much more to DUST and the player experience.

Why the hatred for the passive match sp mechanic? Because it is the diametric opposite of a meritocratic reward system. Because it sends a message that engaging the enemy(or supporting your team) is neither honoured or required by the game mechanics. The fundamental criticism would be that it rewards passivity as a valid approach to the game. In a very real sense it devalues player effort, and an argument could be made that it is a patronizing, rather than an enabling, approach to struggling players. More could be said, but this is the essence of it.

I believe that once a player becomes aware of this mechanic, there is a sense of psychological d+¬nouement: in a universe with a reputation as harsh and as legendary as New Eden's to discover that the developer is putting all players on a mandatory meritocratic welfare program is disheartening and disillusioning, imo. I believe that the game will pay a price for this in terms of credibility and romantic appeal. I realize this sounds a bit histrionic, but people are very sensitive in situations where the walk doesn't match the talk. The ultimate victim here is New Eden.

Ok, so long story short, alternatives to a passive dole? It must be a mechanism that rewards only actions. My personal favourite is an asymmetrical WP to SP conversion factor based on how well a player did or didn't do in a given match. There are no doubt other, better mechanisms than mine. The point is that they must reward action and not reward passivity/disengagement.

What does "Catching up to vets" mean anyway?

Does it mean making one effective fitting that can kill a vet, or does it mean matching a year or three's SP in a few months?


You can acomplish the former with a starter bonus pool, but attempting the latter is guaranteed to break the game. You simply can't earn SP fast enough without completely devaluing the rewards.

There is no need to have everyone at the same level, just competative.

But even there, does competative mean competative against proto vets, or simply competative against the players in match? A better academy system and a low level match mode could ensure competativeness without handing out 5M SP.

My idea behind it is that a newberry needs to get to a certain point SP wise to be halfway effective. A faster progression, which could be a higher return on WP than average, would help close the gap between vets, but still leave them way ahead.

Just enough to at the very least let them get a ADV suit and weapon, shield and armor skills lvl 1.