DUST Search - CCP, A Question: Dust vs. Planetside 2

Dunk Mujunk wrote:

Dust numbers have been pretty solid for a month or so now, floating between 400-600 people online at any given time (maybe not right before or after downtime). As seen by the red graphs here, though anything beyond the "Past Week" graph seems to be inaccurate.

I was thinking Dust was PS3 only because running a FPS and syncing computers with PS3s would be extremely difficult, but if PS2 is doing it, I guess that's a non-issue.

Also, the whole KB/M vs DS3 discussion is going to come into play on PS2 at some point (if it hasn't already). I don't know whether they plan on restricting mouse input to balance it vs the DS3, but I know mouse users don't like control restriction (in general, I don't blame them) and if they are actually playing on a PC as opposed to a KB/M setup on the console, I would think they would be even more unhappy with control restrictions, but that's all just speculation.

Also, many people seem to favor Dust over PS2. I haven't played PS2 myself, but I've seen plenty of others say "meh" in regards to PS2. Not to say one is better than the other, but there seems to be plenty of people who prefer Dust.

Lastly, i'm not sure what all features still need to be added to PS2, but Dust still has a bunch of major stuff that has not been added yet (i.e. PvE, Market, serious connection to Eve). Adding all this stuff would (I imagine) give the Dust player base a huge boost numbers wise.

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Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 354	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:35:00 - [1] - Quote Honest question.... not a trolling attempt, but honest questions: With Planetside 2 currently in open beta and planning to be a hybrid launch across BOTH PC and PS4, I have the following two part question. Part 1 - What was the thought process with regards to making Dust a PS3-only launch, when there was clearly such a large fan base in for EVE in the PC world? Part 2 - With player numbers dropping in DUST and Planetside 2 acting as a proof-of-concept, will DUST become a hybrid console/PC game? EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005 DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed.
Mikey Ducati Xer Cloud Consortium 21	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:37:00 - [2] - Quote Objection!!! PS2 player base has been declining. Stop comparing...
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1255	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:37:00 - [3] - Quote Nightbird Aeon wrote: Honest question.... not a trolling attempt, but honest questions: With Planetside 2 currently in open beta and planning to be a hybrid launch across BOTH PC and PS4, I have the following two part question. Part 1 - What was the thought process with regards to making Dust a PS3-only launch, when there was clearly such a large fan base in for EVE in the PC world? Part 2 - With player numbers dropping in DUST and Planetside 2 acting as a proof-of-concept, will DUST become a hybrid console/PC game? Ps2 sucks can't really explain it other than its boring as hell and you get nothing I'm everyone's type
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1255	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:38:00 - [4] - Quote Well the big scale battles is cool I'm everyone's type
Delta90212 Dust2Dust. Top Men. 67	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:40:00 - [5] - Quote Nightbird Aeon wrote: Honest question.... not a trolling attempt, but honest questions: With Planetside 2 currently in open beta and planning to be a hybrid launch across BOTH PC and PS4, I have the following two part question. Part 1 - What was the thought process with regards to making Dust a PS3-only launch, when there was clearly such a large fan base in for EVE in the PC world? Part 2 - With player numbers dropping in DUST and Planetside 2 acting as a proof-of-concept, will DUST become a hybrid console/PC game? Planetside 2 is not in open beta, its already released pls fix Fear my Minmatarian brothers.
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 354	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:42:00 - [6] - Quote Whoops.... removed reference to open beta in OP EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005 DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1174	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:46:00 - [7] - Quote Both are similar. But offer to different taste. Lets be honest here, if you don't have anything invested in eve, nor do you care about eve side of things. Then Both offer nothing. But PS2 does offer some hell as crazy battles. where dust offers more in depth customization.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1256	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:47:00 - [8] - Quote Honestly dust should be on ps4 on release, hint hint I'm everyone's type
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1388	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:02:00 - [9] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Well the big scale battles is cool That's all that appeals to me and iv played many games with huge battles, the novelty wears off quick when you add stupidity to the equation. Honestly dust has shown that the majority of console/regular players cannot handle the strategic value of 5 objectives nor gauge the ebb and flow of battle so to me planet side 2 will die from this very very quickly. On the other hand if mindless running and gunning is your thing then none of the above will ever affect you, until you scratch your head the day a game servers go offline wondering why it died. That wasn't aimed at you either heim, just the first line. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1388	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:03:00 - [10] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Honestly dust should be on ps4 on release, hint hint That gaiku thing for ps4 will be great Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.

TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1388	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:06:00 - [11] - Quote I'll play it on ps4 until it goes stale, I'd give it 6 months from release on ps4 before the novelty large scale battles become boring and generally just a massive stupid cluster fk. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1258	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:10:00 - [12] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Well the big scale battles is cool That's all that appeals to me and iv played many games with huge battles, the novelty wears off quick when you add stupidity to the equation. Honestly dust has shown that the majority of console/regular players cannot handle the strategic value of 5 objectives nor gauge the ebb and flow of battle so to me planet side 2 will die from this very very quickly. On the other hand if mindless running and gunning is your thing then none of the above will ever affect you, until you scratch your head the day a game servers go offline wondering why it died. That wasn't aimed at you either heim, just the first line. I know lol I agree I'm everyone's type
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1258	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:12:00 - [13] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Honestly dust should be on ps4 on release, hint hint That gaiku thing for ps4 will be great Heard it sucked? But ill have my ps4 in a week or something I thought about saving dust to a flashdrive then transferring it that way but I'm not the smartest with technology so I doubt it'd work I'm everyone's type
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1389	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:14:00 - [14] - Quote I'll be running medic, engineer and assassin when I play though, I really want to do some behind enemy lines stuff. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1389	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:16:00 - [15] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Honestly dust should be on ps4 on release, hint hint That gaiku thing for ps4 will be great Heard it sucked? But ill have my ps4 in a week or something I thought about saving dust to a flashdrive then transferring it that way but I'm not the smartest with technology so I doubt it'd work It will either install and not work until gaiku works with dust or it won't install yet. Slight possibility never lol. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 470	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:18:00 - [16] - Quote its too soon to release the ps4..maybe they should delay it for 1 or 2 more years?... as for planetside 2.. that game is out of my reach.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1258	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:24:00 - [17] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: its too soon to release the ps4..maybe they should delay it for 1 or 2 more years?... as for planetside 2.. that game is out of my reach. If I can't play dust on ps4 within a year ill probably be done with it I'm everyone's type
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 243	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:29:00 - [18] - Quote Dust numbers have been pretty solid for a month or so now, floating between 400-600 people online at any given time (maybe not right before or after downtime). As seen by the red graphs here, though anything beyond the "Past Week" graph seems to be inaccurate. I was thinking Dust was PS3 only because running a FPS and syncing computers with PS3s would be extremely difficult, but if PS2 is doing it, I guess that's a non-issue. Also, the whole KB/M vs DS3 discussion is going to come into play on PS2 at some point (if it hasn't already). I don't know whether they plan on restricting mouse input to balance it vs the DS3, but I know mouse users don't like control restriction (in general, I don't blame them) and if they are actually playing on a PC as opposed to a KB/M setup on the console, I would think they would be even more unhappy with control restrictions, but that's all just speculation. Also, many people seem to favor Dust over PS2. I haven't played PS2 myself, but I've seen plenty of others say "meh" in regards to PS2. Not to say one is better than the other, but there seems to be plenty of people who prefer Dust. Lastly, i'm not sure what all features still need to be added to PS2, but Dust still has a bunch of major stuff that has not been added yet (i.e. PvE, Market, serious connection to Eve). Adding all this stuff would (I imagine) give the Dust player base a huge boost numbers wise.
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 220	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:32:00 - [19] - Quote Nightbird Aeon wrote: Part 1 - What was the thought process with regards to making Dust a PS3-only launch, when there was clearly such a large fan base in for EVE in the PC world? I've heard that CCP didn't want to canabalize their customer base - what good does it do them to convert paying EVE customers over to a free game, in other words? I don't recall whether CCP has said this themselves, or if it's just been player speculation, but it makes sense to me. Not that I like it, but it does make sense.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1558	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:35:00 - [20] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Honestly dust should be on ps4 on release, hint hint Better for DUST to be a new game coming to PS4 just around the time people are getting tired of PS2.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1559	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:53:00 - [21] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Dust numbers have been pretty solid for a month or so now, floating between 400-600 people online at any given time (maybe not right before or after downtime). As seen by the red graphs here, though anything beyond the "Past Week" graph seems to be inaccurate. I was thinking Dust was PS3 only because running a FPS and syncing computers with PS3s would be extremely difficult, but if PS2 is doing it, I guess that's a non-issue. Also, the whole KB/M vs DS3 discussion is going to come into play on PS2 at some point (if it hasn't already). I don't know whether they plan on restricting mouse input to balance it vs the DS3, but I know mouse users don't like control restriction (in general, I don't blame them) and if they are actually playing on a PC as opposed to a KB/M setup on the console, I would think they would be even more unhappy with control restrictions, but that's all just speculation. Also, many people seem to favor Dust over PS2. I haven't played PS2 myself, but I've seen plenty of others say "meh" in regards to PS2. Not to say one is better than the other, but there seems to be plenty of people who prefer Dust. Lastly, i'm not sure what all features still need to be added to PS2, but Dust still has a bunch of major stuff that has not been added yet (i.e. PvE, Market, serious connection to Eve). Adding all this stuff would (I imagine) give the Dust player base a huge boost numbers wise. The PS4 PS2 players will not be playing with the PC PS2 players. They will be separated. I head a PS2 Dev say that they could have had them together but it was much easier not to have to synch them for patches and stuff. So if you have a friend who plays PS2 on PC you are not going to be able to play with them on your PS4. Therefor PS2 will not need to balance KB/Mouse against DS3 controlers.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5051	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:02:00 - [22] - Quote You're not going to find a straight answer. The best anyone can come up with is that CCP wanted to expand on the market but wanted to do so in a prudent manner. They are an indy company after all with finite resources whose main headquarters is in a country so small that the population there is literally about 500,000 residents. The staff working at CCP is not that big to begin with. Total number of employees as of 2012 is just over 500 worldwide. Let's also not forget that CCP never created a first-person shooter in their entire career before. This is literally their first one. Now let's compare that number of employees to that of big-name companies like Electronic Arts (EA) which has a world wide 9,300 employees worldwide. Big difference, huh? But that's just EA. Sony employs up to 167,900 employees worldwide. As you can see, CCP is competing with the big dogs as an indy company with resources that are extremely limited in comparison. Therefore it is no surprise that Planetside 2 has more content and has more complete core features than that of Dust 514. However, just because a big-name company financed the development it doesn't mean that a game is good. Take a hard look at EA's Earth & Beyond which came out in 2003 (about the same time as Eve Online). A couple of years later, EA announced that E&B and its servers were shutting down just after tons of players kept saying that Eve Online sucked badly and that E&B would rule over it. Then there is Halo. Yes, Halo of all games to start sucking. Halo was a great game up until Halo 4 when when a series of glitches ran rampant on the game. My friend's Halo 4 profile was wiped out (he was at SR39) by accident and never recovered completely since then. He had to start over. Then there is the series of glitches for local multiplayer in which some of the "core" maps were unable to load. Often times were even suffer the infinite "circle" loading window that forces us to log out of the game and back in again. Then there are glitches that are still there even from the VERY BEGINNING such as when you ride a vehicle over a certain spot and you get launched across the map and die. Not to mention the fact that many of the medals were being handed out like candy. In Halo 3, you had to EARN your medals. And by EARN I mean actually working hard for it. Then there is the fact that the developers are making us purchase extra maps. Some of the maps are worth the money, but others not so much. The game got dumbed down basically. And don't get me started on the Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary Edition and the fact that it makes me play Halo Reach multiplayer when I expected Halo: Combat Evolved multiplayer from the days of old. At this point, the only thing good about Halo is the story. Overall, I'm just getting tired of comparing games. We all heard it before. I even heard it before when the Microsoft Flight Simulator Community and the X-Plane Community were all screaming at each other like kids saying "my sim is better and yours is fail"... blah blah blah. Let's just end this conversation already. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1174	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:08:00 - [23] - Quote Ps2 still gets some nods in fps tables (fps forums) Dust is not even allowed at the table. that says a lot. Only good things said about dust come from the dust forums.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 26	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:11:00 - [24] - Quote Nightbird Aeon wrote: Part 1 - What was the thought process with regards to making Dust a PS3-only launch, when there was clearly such a large fan base in for EVE in the PC world? Part 2 - With player numbers dropping in DUST and Planetside 2 acting as a proof-of-concept, will DUST become a hybrid console/PC game? Short answers: No PC, and No. Long answers: 1 - From the get go CCP decided that if they were going to create another "flagship game" that it would be console based. Why? For the same reason that you don't see any of the major car manufacturers producing new cars for less than their main lines... It would undercut themselves. If they released another PC online game, then the players of EVE would have to decide which to spend more time with. This would divide a market that they still wish to grow. Additionally a new payment scheme had evolved over the years after the release of EVE online that represented a large amount of possible cash flow than the monthly subscription model - free to play. Free to play is a misnomer as it actually the capability to gross more than 10 x the amount that a monthly subscription game can. So quick history lesson.... First there were "boxed" games. You paid your $60 or $80 for it the month it is released, play through the 8 to 20 hour storyline (I'll say it's 12 for argument's sake) and then never play it again (no replay-ability). So for the several months of work to produce the game they gross a lot of money up front upon release and then it trickles away unless they do something like release a sequel (Final Fantasy comes to mind as it will never really be "final"). So the era of the sequels soon led to the era of the MMO, where you get countless hours of replay-ability every month for the bargain price of only $14.95 (originally they started out closer to $10 per month, but inflation...). Now the game producers are raking in the dough every month... Just one problem. They still have to pay for upkeep costs of servers, online support, community support, bug fixes, etc. They then tried to combine the two with sequels to the MMO's, but this still only nets like pennies per hour of game play per person and requires a huge player base to be profitable. Why do I say pennies? Because in the boxed method you paid approx $60 for 12 hours of content or about $5 per hour of fun. With monthly subscription you pay about $15 per month for around 96 hours (assuming only 24 hours per week) of game play every month which is about 15 cents per hour... It's even less than that if you play more often. Then along comes free to play. Well it's not free. Admittedly, many people won't be paying at all, but even more will pay for a little here and there and even fewer will end up paying for a lot (sounds kinda like taxes). So at one point back during beta, one of the DUST devs mentioned that a full suit of AUR top of the line AUR gear equated to 24.5 cents. So basically one life = one quarter (sounding familiar to anyone)? So in one match lets say you only die like 4 times, that is $1 per match. How long does a match last? Let's assume 15 minutes. And let's assume that with the gabbing with friends and other stuff you only get in 3 matches per hour... That's like $3 per hour that CCP is making off that player. Now assuming they play for only 10 hours a week, that's 40 hours per month, so CCP gets $70 per month off this instance. Of course numbers are gonna vary, no one uses best gear all the time, but many pay for and use boosters all the time, etc. So it all averages out. {two part post because of character limit...}
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 26	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:11:00 - [25] - Quote {...part 2 of two part post} ...end of short history lesson. So why didn't CCP just turn EVE Online into free to play instead? Because when they started to even implement an AUR system in EVE the net effect was this: http://www.eveonline.com/capsuleers/jita-riots/ The Jita Riots. So CCP learned it's lesson and as a result they still wanted in on all that free to play cash, but how to do it? Well, how about expanding to a new market entirely? Yeah that's the ticket! So they decided to put a product out there that would not compete with their current cash generator and still yield the opportunities to not only develop a free to play style game, but also grab into a whole new player base. And so they thought why not an FPS? Yeah sure and we'll make it across multiple console platforms because PC gamers and console gamers are a completely separate market (and age-group and segment) of society. Originally it was to be on both the XBOX 360 and the PS3, they even started development on the XBOX as evidenced by the early concepts that they demoed at fanfests years ago (with XBOX controllers in their hands). But then Micro-sux decided to point out that they don't let ANYONE other than themselves access to their networks and linking the game to another platform (PC or otherwise) wouldn't be allowed. Prolly not wanting to help boost any competitor etc. So midstream CCP was forced to scramble and switch over to the PS3. So there you have it. It's on a console only on purpose to prevent cutting into their PC gaming market share. 2 - They have repetitively said no to this one and I have to agree for all the reasons in the answer to your first question above. Like 50% of EVE Online players (I made that number up) have said that they WILL play DUST if it is offered on the PC and that would be a devastating blow to the player base of EVE Online. Besides which the mentality and profile of your average console gamer wouldn't put up with the bullshit that your average EVE Online PC game would. They are completely different demographics in some cases. Console provides short bursts of entertainment for a younger audience using various tactics, while the PC provides for longer and slower stretches of gaming with a more strategic goal. They actually seem to complement each other in a theoretical sense. At least if CCP ever finished interfacing them.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5052	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:31:00 - [26] - Quote Pretty much what Jadd explained. And I can confirm that Microsoft was trying to shaft CCP by overcharging CCP with many costs just for the updates alone. Sony offered a cheaper and better alternative. And it's a good thing that Dust is not on the Xbox because... well... the Xbox One is a flop in my opinion. It's tailored too much towards home entertainment and less towards gaming anyways. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1175	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:31:00 - [27] - Quote @ jadd. you know I was just about to write all that. no you weren't Still very good job chap.
Oswald Rehnquist 542	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:34:00 - [28] - Quote I've played both, Ps2 does the large scale battles a lot better, territory turnover is a lot better, and the thrill of invading a well defended base is epic, Dust really needs to look into the base invasion mode because Ps2 blew them away there. That said, Ps2 is more of a assault/zerg fest, kind of when a skirmish match devolves into going in circles capturing objectives, also I think Ps2 needs to focus on expanding role utility within their classes and ironically longer term pulls that require work to get so people stay longer. Below 28 dB
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1509	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:55:00 - [29] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: its too soon to release the ps4..maybe they should delay it for 1 or 2 more years?... as for planetside 2.. that game is out of my reach. It's already in warehouses and in stores waiting for another 3 days to get sold. It's too late for delaying. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!


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