DUST Search - Issues i have with the Minmatar meduim suits

Ryme Intrinseca wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Minmatar's strafe speed and 1 hp regen in armor in no way makes up for the Caldari's much higher potential HP threshold, higher shield recharge rate, better module layout and better CPU stats. Give all shield tanks 1 hp per second for all I care, it's pretty much worthless since if you tank armor on a Minmatar you loose your only other advantage, your speed.

PS - EXTEND TTK!

You are seriously underselling the min assault versus the cal:

- It is not just higher 'strafe speed'. Its general movement speed is 0.3m/s higher, as its run speed is 0.4m/s higher, i.e. it's around 6% faster.
- The cal layout is not 'better'. Both have seven slots. In this age of core locus spam you need all the high slots you can get, which is what the min gives you.
- Let's look at those alleged 'better CPU stats' for cal assault: Cal 300CPU, min 320CPU at proto. The min has more CPU at standard and advanced as well.
- Finally, the 1hp regen is so useful precisely because the min assault is not a tanked suit. For a tanked suit you'd need a dedicated repper anyway, but the 1hp is sufficient for the odd occasion when you do dip into armour.

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gg JKl Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:14:00 - [1] - Quote First the Caldari Logi ck.0 shield recharge rate 20 hp shield recharge delay 6 sec shield depleted recharge 8 sec Assault ck.0 shield recharge rate 25hp shield recharge delay 5 sec shield depleted recharge 8 sec Apart from the shield depleted recharge which is the same. The assault is better as you would expect, Now the Minmatar Logi mk.0 shield recharge rate 20 hp shield recharge delay 6 sec shield depleted recharge 8 sec Assault mk.0 shield recharge rate 18 hp shield recharge delay 6 sec shield depleted recharge 10 sec Apart from the shield charge delay which is the same. The logi is better then the assault. Why is that? Why is it different for the other shield tanking suits? Shouldn't it be the other way round? The logi already has better distribution of slots. Has a better repair rate why does it need this advantage as well. I suggest swapping atleast these base attributions and increase the strafing and running speed of the assault so the difference is a lot more noticeable between the suits. And on a side note increase the TTK
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 195	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:35:00 - [2] - Quote gg JKl wrote: First the Caldari Logi ck.0 shield recharge rate 20 hp shield recharge delay 6 sec shield depleted recharge 8 sec Assault ck.0 shield recharge rate 25hp shield recharge delay 5 sec shield depleted recharge 8 sec Apart from the shield depleted recharge which is the same. The assault is better as you would expect, Now the Minmatar Logi mk.0 shield recharge rate 20 hp shield recharge delay 6 sec shield depleted recharge 8 sec Assault mk.0 shield recharge rate 18 hp shield recharge delay 6 sec shield depleted recharge 10 sec Apart from the shield charge delay which is the same. The logi is better then the assault. Why is that? Why is it different for the other shield tanking suits? Shouldn't it be the other way round? The logi already has better distribution of slots. Has a better repair rate why does it need this advantage as well. I suggest swapping atleast these base attributions and increase the strafing and running speed of the assault so the difference is a lot more noticeable between the suits. And on a side note increase the TTK NO, for two reasons. 1. The Caldari assault gets fast shield regen while the Minmatar assault gets +1 armour repair per second. So these suits are roughly balanced against each other - the Min maybe being slightly better as it has more PG/CPU and you don't need to waste a slot on a repper.If you swapped Min logi and Min assault attributes, the Min assault would dominate the Cal assault, as there would then not be much difference in shield recovery rates and the Min would retain its other advantages. 2. Logi suits have been very carefully balanced against each other, having been unbalanced at the start of uprising. This balance would be upset if you nerfed the Minmatar logi in the way you propose. For instance, it would go from having near identical regen to the Calogi to being much slower. TL;DR Swapping the min assault and logi stats around would have the unintended consequences of unbalancing the assault versus other assaults and the logi versus other logis.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 721	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:56:00 - [3] - Quote Minmatar's strafe speed and 1 hp regen in armor in no way makes up for the Caldari's much higher potential HP threshold, higher shield recharge rate, better module layout and better CPU stats. Give all shield tanks 1 hp per second for all I care, it's pretty much worthless since if you tank armor on a Minmatar you loose your only other advantage, your speed. PS - EXTEND TTK! (GÇó_GÇó) ( GÇó_GÇó)>GîÉGûá-Gûá (GîÉGûá_Gûá)
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 197	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:23:00 - [4] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Minmatar's strafe speed and 1 hp regen in armor in no way makes up for the Caldari's much higher potential HP threshold, higher shield recharge rate, better module layout and better CPU stats. Give all shield tanks 1 hp per second for all I care, it's pretty much worthless since if you tank armor on a Minmatar you loose your only other advantage, your speed. PS - EXTEND TTK! You are seriously underselling the min assault versus the cal: - It is not just higher 'strafe speed'. Its general movement speed is 0.3m/s higher, as its run speed is 0.4m/s higher, i.e. it's around 6% faster. - The cal layout is not 'better'. Both have seven slots. In this age of core locus spam you need all the high slots you can get, which is what the min gives you. - Let's look at those alleged 'better CPU stats' for cal assault: Cal 300CPU, min 320CPU at proto. The min has more CPU at standard and advanced as well. - Finally, the 1hp regen is so useful precisely because the min assault is not a tanked suit. For a tanked suit you'd need a dedicated repper anyway, but the 1hp is sufficient for the odd occasion when you do dip into armour.
gg JKl Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:53:00 - [5] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Minmatar's strafe speed and 1 hp regen in armor in no way makes up for the Caldari's much higher potential HP threshold, higher shield recharge rate, better module layout and better CPU stats. Give all shield tanks 1 hp per second for all I care, it's pretty much worthless since if you tank armor on a Minmatar you loose your only other advantage, your speed. PS - EXTEND TTK! You are seriously underselling the min assault versus the cal: - It is not just higher 'strafe speed'. Its general movement speed is 0.3m/s higher, as its run speed is 0.4m/s higher, i.e. it's around 6% faster. - The cal layout is not 'better'. Both have seven slots. In this age of core locus spam you need all the high slots you can get, which is what the min gives you. - Let's look at those alleged 'better CPU stats' for cal assault: Cal 300CPU, min 320CPU at proto. The min has more CPU at standard and advanced as well. - Finally, the 1hp regen is so useful precisely because the min assault is not a tanked suit. For a tanked suit you'd need a dedicated repper anyway, but the 1hp is sufficient for the odd occasion when you do dip into armour. - strafe speed got nerfed any half decent player should be able to track you with aim assist, speed tanking is dead, - core locus spam is going to kill you regardless and its worth pointing out putting 5 complex shield mods on a min suit does not give you as much shields as putting 4 complex on a cal suit, that 20 cpu and whatever pg don't make up for that. - you only get 2 low slots thats the reason for the 1hp regen not "The Caldari assault gets fast shield regen while the Minmatar assault gets +1 armour repair per second. So these suits are roughly balanced against each other"
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2502	Posted - 2013.11.12 21:03:00 - [6] - Quote Stop touching my damn Minmatar suit! (SWINGS NOVA KNIVES). Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Vyuru Bojo's School of the Trades 23	Posted - 2013.11.12 22:54:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: It is not just higher 'strafe speed'. Its general movement speed is 0.3m/s higher, as its run speed is 0.4m/s higher, i.e. it's around 6% faster. Assuming your math is correct, didn't check, let's put this another way. In the time it takes the Caldari Assault to run 100m, the Minmatar Assault has run 106m. That ain't much. The rest of it is really a wash. Extra low slot is nice, and don't get me wrong, I am ALL about low slots as a scout. However I'd probably be using the Caldari's extra low slot to fit an armor repper, while the Minmatar has a built in weak repper, so I'm rather "meh" there. Caldari get a 10% boost to shield extenders at lvl 5 prof, giving you 7 extra health with complex (rounding up) x4 is 28 health, roughly and assuming 4x complex shield extenders. Minmatar get an extra high slot, giving them an extra 66hp in shields, which after doing math, 66-28=38 health. Minmatar total base hp: 285 Caldari total base hp: 330 Minmatar after tossing in the 38hp delta = 323. That's a estimated 7hp difference in total health, assuming shield tanking and no armor tanking, in which case the Caldari pulls ahead by it's extra low slot. Now, there are tons of ways to fit suits, but myself personally, I'd be looking at slapping a complex stamina/kincat in the Minnie's low slots, shotgun/scrambler rifle/SMG + SMG/???, AV grenade, RE, then mixing shield extenders/damage mods in the highs. Play it more like an assault scout. Might fit something other than REs in my equipment, dunno, would have to play with it and see what I think it needs. Might look at shield rechargers/regulators too. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a faster Minnie Ass, but I better see a faster Minnie scout too.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1139	Posted - 2013.11.12 23:06:00 - [8] - Quote Just for the sake of discussion: It's kind of silly talking about an assault drop suit getting +1 passive armor rep when every Logi suit gets +1-5 passive armor rep. Just sayin'. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Vyuru Bojo's School of the Trades 23	Posted - 2013.11.12 23:11:00 - [9] - Quote It is, but at the same time I kinda like it with my play style. I like to have an armor rep on my scout suit, or used to possibly. I used to either take a little bit of damage to armor, or get killed. To have a built in armor rep for this purpose is fabulous. Granted, 1hp/s isn't very much, but it is better than nothing and if you only take a little bit of damage to armor due to fall damage or whatever, then it is good. If you are Ramboing it up, 1hp/s isn't that good ;)


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