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R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
   |
Posted - 2013.11.11 21:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
The alternative you listed is worse!!
Right now it's pretty pointless to run proto gear at all and Dust is essentially a twitch shooter with a lot of the tactical elements removed...
Aim assist is totally over the top. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:The alternative you listed is worse!!
Right now it's pretty pointless to run proto gear at all and Dust is essentially a twitch shooter with a lot of the tactical elements removed...
Aim assist is totally over the top. If it is pointless to run proto gear, then why are there all these proto squad stomp QQs on the forums. Get your stories straight if you are going to ***** about something. Either TTK is to low and proto doesn't matter, or proto gives to big an advantage and we need to separate them out. You can't have both.
They're still around because a lot of fools haven't done the math yet.
Given the TTK difference between killing a militia and proto suit, it simply doesn't make economic sense to run proto.
Yes, proto is stronger, but that doesn't mean it needs nerfing. In EVE, a team of 10 T3 ships will beat 10 cruisers. That doesn't mean T3 needs a nerf. It means the weaker team lost, as it should. Not happy about losing? Get better gear and get better at the game. A good player in advanced gear beat a bad player in proto gear even before the patch...and if both players are equally good, a proto player SHOULD slaughter a non-proto player.
What they've done now is remove all skill requirement and the benefit of better gear. They've turned EVE into a twitch shooter. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that if they go down that route, no player can pretend skill matters...
There's a better fix:
Create different battles with different rewards. So some dominations/skirmishes/etc wouldn't allow proto suits...and in return net you less rewards. If you want better rewards, you have to fight better suits. A bit like different complex levels in EVE.
If someone doesn't want to fight proto suits, that's alright...but there needs to be a downside (aka less isk return).
PC should allow everything, just like 0.0 space in EVE. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
21yrOld Knight wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Everyone saying that it is too low need to HTFU. Or would you rather have every tank mod in the game nerfed and not even worth equipping. If you raise time to kill all you are doing is ensuring that proto players get to stomp even harder. It will not give lesser skilled players a chance, it will not bring the game back into balance. What it will do is ensure that everyone with more skill points with have uber tanked suits with the best guns and people in militia and standard gear will effectively be wiped from the playing field.
So enough with the TTK is too low threads. It is not and you are wrong. I want the ttk raise not so i can gain a advantage but have fun again. Before ccp lowered the TTK you could have strafing battles with people. Now the game is closer to other fps where you die fast.
^^^^ THIS!!!
They essentially turned Dust into a game of whackamole...no intelligence or tactics required. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
21yrOld Knight wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:21yrOld Knight wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Everyone saying that it is too low need to HTFU. Or would you rather have every tank mod in the game nerfed and not even worth equipping. If you raise time to kill all you are doing is ensuring that proto players get to stomp even harder. It will not give lesser skilled players a chance, it will not bring the game back into balance. What it will do is ensure that everyone with more skill points with have uber tanked suits with the best guns and people in militia and standard gear will effectively be wiped from the playing field.
So enough with the TTK is too low threads. It is not and you are wrong. I want the ttk raise not so i can gain a advantage but have fun again. Before ccp lowered the TTK you could have strafing battles with people. Now the game is closer to other fps where you die fast. ^^^^ THIS!!! They essentially turned Dust into a game of whackamole...no intelligence or tactics required. When did gun game become a game of whack a mole. Also why did you even bring up tactics.
Whackamole as in: You just need to hit something for 1-2sec and it dies. No evading, no dodging, no extended fights...no tactics. Essentially, whoever has a 1-2sec headstart wins no matter what the opponent wears.
Why did I bring up tactics? Because I'd like to think people care about the challenge and added depth tactics bring to a game. Without it, you might just as well play Angry Birds.
I'm not interested in a no-skills game...maybe you are though. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
21yrOld Knight wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:
^^^^ THIS!!!
They essentially turned Dust into a game of whackamole...no intelligence or tactics required.
When did gun game become a game of whack a mole. Also why did you even bring up tactics.
Whackamole as in: You just need to hit something for 1-2sec and it dies. No evading, no dodging, no extended fights...no tactics. Essentially, whoever has a 1-2sec headstart wins no matter what the opponent wears.
Why did I bring up tactics? Because I'd like to think people care about the challenge and added depth tactics bring to a game. Without it, you might just as well play Angry Birds.
I'm not interested in a no-skills game...maybe you are though.
Strafing is where you evade and dodge your enemy while they are doing the same to you. This in turn makes the fight longer. with a lower TTK this goes away because it takes less hits to kill someone. Did you know that strafing was a tactic? [/quote]
Yes, strafing is a tactic...and they made that pretty much useless given the overthetop aim assist and ridiculously low TTK. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:You didnt know? That is what they want
If you take a good look youll notice a lot of the guys whining about time to kill are people that have been here for a while and things such as better hit detection are ruining their gear advantage and tearing down the walls on their power fantasy that they are better and it isnt their gear carrying them
Right...so on top of simply fixing hit detection and leveling the playing field, they also had to introduce ridiculous aim assist to further ensure unskilled fools don't wine too much.
You can't seriously think that it's perfectly ok that someone who pays 10k for his suit lives only 2sec less than someone paying 100k+ just for the suit! If you do, you're just a bad player who likes crutches. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
480
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Low TTK = "Tactical" But, TANK+GANK>OVER ALL
High TTK= Strafing skills matter, Allows Diversity, allows Regen, Speed and Damp Tanking...
Yup. So now we essentially have a game where everyone's running around in gank Tornados or Tempests...and every other playstyle isn't feasible anymore.
Imagine the outcry if that happened in EVE just because some weak players whined on a forum... |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
482
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Delta 749 wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Delta 749 wrote:You didnt know? That is what they want
If you take a good look youll notice a lot of the guys whining about time to kill are people that have been here for a while and things such as better hit detection are ruining their gear advantage and tearing down the walls on their power fantasy that they are better and it isnt their gear carrying them Right...so on top of simply fixing hit detection and leveling the playing field, they also had to introduce ridiculous aim assist to further ensure unskilled fools don't wine too much. If you are so skilled then the aim assist shouldnt be giving you so many problems Personally I dont use it but I also dont whine about it existing, after all there are several things I can do such as engaging from behind or the enemies flank or engage at a close range with a little bit of jumping You did know that a little hop within 30 meters is enough to throw it off if they arent actively tracking you right? Oh hey guess what, those two little things are tactics as well so there goes your "This is no tactics waaah" argument Are they different tactics from what to be employed before yes but tactics all the same Think of it like the Rainbow Six games before Vegas, remember those? In the absolute heaviest armor you could wear you would still die in a fraction of a second which made actual real tactical thinking important IE should I avoid this engagement now, if so how do I do so, if Im going to attack where should it be, how should I utilize the terrain, do I run past this corner or take it slow and "slice the pizza" Yeah you can play like you used to or you can adapt and realize that a short time to kill really does make the game more tactical especially coupled with the high mobility most suits have Then why should I get better stuff? Because that half a second can save your ass, proto gear isnt supposed to be an automatic I win button though just give a little edge otherwise you are looking at some pay to win bullshit that drives new players away from the game and damages Dusts overall health
Right...and that's your OPINION.
Just fyi, in EVE, a T3 cruiser will slaughter a T1 cruiser...AS IT SHOULD. No one's whining about that.
It just seems that bad players in Dust whine so much, they need a crutch "or else". And CCP probably can't afford to lose those players. So they simply decided to cater to the lowest common denominator. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
484
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 19:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:
Right...and that's your OPINION.
Just fyi, in EVE, a T3 cruiser will slaughter a T1 cruiser...AS IT SHOULD. No one's whining about that. In fact, the difference is even stronger than the proto vs non-proto difference in Dust. I'd happily take on 2-4 cruisers solo in my T3 (fyi, 2 couldn't ever break my tank alone, even 4 would probably struggle if I'm allowed to fire back while they try).
It just seems that bad players in Dust whine so much, they need a crutch "or else". And CCP probably can't afford to lose those players. So they simply decided to cater to the lowest common denominator.
By the way, if you truly believe a half a second advantage (lol) justifies a 10-15 times more expensive price for a suit & gear, it's kinda pointless to discuss with you.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the most common killer of tech 3 ships are tech 1 ships these days.
If someone flying a decent T3 loses to a T1 cruiser, he simply sucks at the game.
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