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Talking About Perfect Imbalance

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Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1181	Posted - 2013.11.10 15:30:00 - [1] - Quote I didn't know where this went, so if a dev can move it to the correct place, thank you. <3 A while ago, I was linked to this youtube video on Perfect Imbalance, and haven't seen it since, so I'm hoping to bring it back and hopefully get the devs to notice it, and, with time, possibly work on executing it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e31OSVZF77w <- Video on Perfect Imbalance by Extra Credits Basically, what the video is saying is that you must have a carefully crafted imbalance. Not to the point where one thing is incredibly OP, but just a small enough difference to make it so, for example, Assault Rifle wins over Shotgun at mid-long ranges. Think of that optical illusion, with the staircase that is always going down but then starts to cycle. (Clicky) Now, imagine there being 4 different elements, or weapons rather, on the staircase. The weapon that is on top of the one that is currently "OP", but just OP enough to make it seem better. Not to the point where it wins every engagement. The stairs in between each platform is the action of finding a new tactic and/or weapon to use. So we start with Assault Rifles, and they seem better than everything else. So everyone starts using the Assault Rifle. But then some players, who haven't really skilled into Assault Rifles and want for there to be something else, start searching for something to beat the AR. That action is our stairs. Sooner or later, they find the Shotgun. So then the Shotgun starts looking like the best, making the AR look weak. But then someone looks for a thing to beat the Shotgun, and they find the HMG, and then the cycle continues, just like our staircase. What this creates, basically, is a constantly evolving meta-game. It makes the players think about what they're doing and create strategies, tactics, and fittings based on what the current "FoTM" is. Now, I'm not talking a whole month+ of only ARs or only Shotgun, maybe more like a week, but it all depends on the will of the players to find something new to do. DUST, however, has many different factors involved, which is why this process will take a while. You need to worry about modules, tanking type, speed, range, weapon, and all that stuff before you can do these things. And if anything, that makes it a more engaging and generally fun experience. Example: -Shotgun wins over Laser Rifle in CQC -Laser Rifle wins over Assault Rifle at long-range -Assault Rifle wins over Shotgun at mid-range And this creates a cycle. BUT, if we added tanking types, it'd make a huge difference. Example, the Shotgun and AR would do the same amount of damage to both shield and armor, but if the Assault Rifle guy was an Armor Tanker, the Laser Rifle would maybe lose the fight. On the flip side, if the Assault Rifle guy was a Shield Tanker, he'd lose VS. the Laser Rifle. The games that do Perfect Imbalanced very well are usually good games. Pokemon, for example, is still a well-known and widely-played game that flawlessly executes Perfect Imbalance. Now, forgive me, because I'm not a big Pokemon player, but a low-level water Pokemon still has a fairly good chance of KOing a higher-level fire Pokemon. And a low-level grass Pokemon can KO a higher-level water Pokemon, and Fire > Plant, and the cycle continues. See what I'm saying? But, here's the cool part. If everything is carefully thought out, and Perfect Imbalancing is implemented over many months, maybe even a year, then it could already be a better game, because everything is made in a way where nothing is OP and everything is sort of balanced. This leaves it to the mind and skill of the player to beat someone with the currently "OP" weapon. Example: Shotgun VS. HMG. With enough skill, fitting expertise, and knowledge, a Shotgun can win out over an HMG at point blank, where normally a HMG melts the Shotgunner. So yup. I'll leave the second post reserved just in case anything else comes to mind, but right now that's it. I'd like a constructive and troll-free zone in this thread, and let's keep it clean. :) ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1181	Posted - 2013.11.10 15:31:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1184	Posted - 2013.11.10 16:03:00 - [3] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: You do realize hmg loses to everything right This is all theoretical. Just like the AR wins to everything. Besides, in CQC, I can melt anyone besides proto-bears with an HMG. :P ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1184	Posted - 2013.11.10 16:08:00 - [4] - Quote Cosgar, I'd like to point out that EVE Online is a complete and fine game. It's been going strong for about a decade and has a fairly large playerbase compared to DUST. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1184	Posted - 2013.11.10 16:12:00 - [5] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: then remove av nades and swarms. OR make vehicles strong enough to take it, and a Shield-Tanking AV weapon. So then, for example, a Madrugar will have a hard time standing up to a Swarm Launcher, but a Gunnlogi would have no problem. Of course, vehicle balancing and AV rebalancing would need to be implemented before this is done. The same would work with a Shield AV weapon, say the Heavy Laser? It would work wonders VS a Gunnlogi, but a Madrugar could easily solve the problem. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1189	Posted - 2013.11.10 22:39:00 - [6] - Quote CCP is certainly heading there in terms of dropsuit tanking types and vehiclular tanking types, but when it comes to weapons, I feel, personally, it's AR or nothing. This isn't an AR QQ thread though, this is me trying to point out what CCP should be doing with ALL weapons. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1194	Posted - 2013.11.11 00:52:00 - [7] - Quote @Vyzion, you're right in the second part of your post, but I'd just like to point out that in the post I did say that in DUST there are many other variations in how a battle plays out. Including, but not limited to, tanking style, range, modules, fittings, skills, etc. Honestly, I don't understand tiercide is so important. If anyone could link me to anything to give me an explanation of what it is AND what it would mean for DUST/EVE/Whatever, that'd be great. :) @dogmanpig, you're pretty much correct. However, I'd like to say a couple things regarding to "What beats AR". 1) I've been running my GEK lately, and I kill ALL heavies unless I have half armor left on my 500+ armor fit. And even then, it doesn't happen often. AR VS. HMG = AR wins. Unless it's point-blank, 5m distance, with a GEK VS. Boundless, the AR will normally come out on top. 2) Again, while running AR, I've found that the Shotguns, because of how off-par they are (But they have certainly gotten better!) can't stand up to the AR in even it's home turf. Earlier, I was saving a squadmate from a group of Shotgunners, and all I had to do was back up. No matter how much they jumped and strafed and sprinted, the hip-fire-at-30m got them. Part of this is hit detection, the UPness of Scouts, but mostly Aim Assist. @Gaden, you're absolutely correct here. I'm sure they're going to fix these issues without making another FoTM (Or at least one so bad it kills everything), and I know that the AR got OP because they were fixing game issues, but like I said, this isn't an AR QQ nerf-cry thread, so I'm not going to say anything there. I'll just say that I trust CCP will make a wise decision on how they make the AR balanced, and that their decision will most likely be a good one. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1195	Posted - 2013.11.11 01:16:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Cosgar, I'd like to point out that EVE Online is a complete and fine game. It's been going strong for about a decade and has a fairly large playerbase compared to DUST. No online game is ever complete. Right, by finished I meant, if they stop putting out expansions and content, it would still be playable. There's no terrible bugs that are so gamebreaking that leaving them there would be criminal, and no FoTM that's so great it should have double the price tag. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1195	Posted - 2013.11.11 01:22:00 - [9] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: -Sometimes, if they have no decent sidearm or the shotgunner is unnoticed. -Nope, AR still out DPS's LR's in their optimal because of that there is no reason to actually use a laser because it's falloff is too drastic. -This should happen. -This is all theoretical. This is what SHOULD happen, not what CURRENTLY happens. On everything else, you're pretty much correct. I don't even ADS where I should while using an AR thanks to Sharpshooter 3 and Proficiency 3. 60+ meters sounds about right. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1196	Posted - 2013.11.11 02:29:00 - [10] - Quote Lynn, as I've said before, this is not an AR QQ thread, or a "what beats AR" thread. This is on Perfect Imbalancing. Now if we can stop talking about what can kill an AR and what can't, and get back to the topic, that'd be awesome. :P Sorry for sounding mean, didn't really mean it to be. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

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