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Galm Fae
Eskola Ergonomics
137
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Posted - 2013.11.10 07:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Caldari Citizenship - Civire-Intaki By Blood
I'm a bleeding heart Patriot through and through, because I actually give a damn about the direction this universe is taking.
In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then I also love him.
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Galm Fae
Eskola Ergonomics
137
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Posted - 2013.11.10 23:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:
Fae-haan:
I'm curious-- when you say that you give a damn about the direction of the "universe," do you mean the State's position in it or do you mean the universe generally?
The Patriots are isolationists, practitioners of porcupine diplomacy ("leave me alone or get hurt"). This being the case, a "bleeding heart" Patriot supporter would be a bit of an oddity. I favor the Patriots because I don't see the universe as fixable, and would rather spend our efforts creating a safe sanctuary than trying and failing to solve other people's problems. The Patriot faction is maybe not the best match for somebody who's actually concerned with the welfare of those beyond our borders.
Forgive me Ryeon for not making myself clear. I was attempting reference your comment that we can be sympathetic at most towards a political slant in the State. I may not be able to say I represent the will of the Patriots, but I will proudly aid them in achieving their ends through thick and thin.
In labeling the Patriots as isolationists, you seem to have a very limited scope on their values. You seem to almost entirely leave out their jingoistic tendancies for boosting Caldari supiriority across the cluster. In fact, I dare say that isolationism is a value held by only the most hardline members of society. (Including but not limited to my former assosiates.)
Assuming the war machine that the Patriots fuel is strictly a defensive measure implies a certain element of naivety.
In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then I also love him.
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Galm Fae
Eskola Ergonomics
138
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Posted - 2013.11.11 09:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:Fae-haan:
Hm. "Isolationist" may not be quite the right term, since it implies withdrawing from interstellar affairs. The Patriots are not so impractical. They are not, however, conquerors; their focus is on strategic position, both economic and military. The goal, however, is predominantly defensive: to establish a barrier against any challenger.
To an extent I agree with you. We aren't conquerors and we are culturally predisposed to hate all forms of imperial subjugation. But conquest is not the same as economic expansion. That fact alone is what sparked the first blasted war between us and the Federation. An empire, even one as comparatively low in population as the Caldari State, isn't self sustaining. It relies on the spoils of expeditionary forces in contested regions of space.
Furthermore, there are still yet more cultural "cousins" out there in the universe yet to be liberated by the State. There is still a large population of ethnic Caldari living among the Federation. Populations whose entire livelihoods is centered on who is winning in the limited conflict are dependent on our own ability to not only repel the Gallente, but press the attack and force them out of occupied regions. And then what of Intaki populations who have requested aid in breaking from the Federation just as we had? Do we not have a moral obligation to support the same form of uprising that birthed our State?
Quote:Of course, no vision of Caldari heritage is complete without Caldari Prime.
On that, arvumaa, we both agree on.
In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then I also love him.
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Galm Fae
Eskola Ergonomics
138
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Posted - 2013.11.11 19:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Quote: There is still a large population of ethnic Caldari living among the Federation. Populations whose entire livelihoods is centered on who is winning in the limited conflict are dependent on our own ability to not only repel the Gallente, but press the attack and force them out of occupied regions. Any and all ethnic Caldari still living within the Federation are doing so by choice, a rather sensible choice. The people themselves are free to leave Gallante space at any point.
Typical imperialist fallacy, thinking it is so easy for a baseliner to just pack up and leave a planet they were born and raised on. What you see as implied concent by proximity is really just robbing citizens of their homeland.
In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then I also love him.
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