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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1317
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Posted - 2013.11.07 19:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
An ongoing issue, or raher issues, that have been my main gripe with Dust is slowly diminnished patch by patch. I am talking about what I and many other "protostomping wannabe elite players with inflated ego" have experienced as noob friendly mechanics. Prime examples of these are the LLAV nerf, the Flaylock nerf, the MD nerf due to better LOS weapon hit detection and now recently the FG blast radius nerf.
I've said it before and I say it again, getting killed in a 200K proto suit due to some skilless scrub exploiting a cheap mechanic isn't any fun at all.... There was a time when I felt that 9 of 10 deaths I had wasn't deserved at all. Lately not so much, not even close. Dying by a militia AR getting the drop on you, simply getting outgunned or dying to an enemy blob due to too aggressive play is all ok and should be expected.
So the TTK is reduced by 1.6 and many players used to being carried by more EHP and DPS has just lost a little of that crutch and situational awareness, fast reflexes and superior aim has never been more important. I am not a direct fan of the new TTK, a little too fast IMO, but nothing game breaking. It might be a deliberate act to tap people faster for expensive suits in an attempt to cure the economy, I don't really care.
Conclusion:
If the current line of development continues, Dust will become a true competitve FPS sometime in the future. I am very positive towards the current trend of development in this regard, though it could always go faster...
There are however more stuff that needs to be done, to reduce what I call "cheap deaths", if you have more suggestions please bring em forth and I'll update the OP.
- Nades, and especially their spammability needs a serious nerf.
- The AI turret aim is just simply insane and needs to be toned down.
- Exit and enter time for fatsuits with LAVs needs to increase. Its just too easy to drive an unkillable LAV and pop out, kill a dude and pop back in again. Two "scrubby russian players" have done this for, well ever, in EU ambush. Its hard, next to impossible to counter, I'd like to see these players perform without this huge benefit.
So CCP, moving slowly in the right direction, keep it up.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1319
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Behold! The lone voice extolling the virtues of 1.6.
Yes, HD being fixed is awesome but the inexorable move towards CoDAR514 is unmistakable and what will ultimately kill Dust.
Well I haven't played COD so I wouldn't know. The MD, sniper rifle, Scr rile, shotfun, smg, and Scr pistols are still viable weapons, at least in their respective niches, and I'm sure the laser will get a buff sooner or later. And then there are vehicles... People have a tendency to overdo the old COD resemblance.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1318
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:Quote:- Nades, and especially their spammability needs a serious nerf.
- The AI turret aim is just simply insane and needs to be toned down.
- Exit and enter time for fatsuits with LAVs needs to increase. Its just too easy to drive an unkillable LAV and pop out, kill a dude and pop back in again. Two "scrubby russian players" have done this for, well ever, in EU ambush. Its hard, next to impossible to counter, I'd like to see these players perform without this huge benefit. all of this i could care less about. a fatty who adapted to AR 514 does not need a nerf. us scouts who what you call "grenade spam" adapted to you AR users who can kill us less than one second. but when its YOU who is getting killed, then whatever killed you needs a nerf. the rest of this post i can mostly agree with. +1 anyway.
Damned forum scrubs....
I did not say the fatsuits need a nerf, just the time to get in and out of LAVs, and its not like an AR/fatsuit combo isn't allowed.
And did I mention nades in relation to scouts?
I also listed a bunch of deaths that I deserve and find to be OK, I've mentioned that the things which kills me "cheaply" needs a nerf, not by far "whatever killed you needs a nerf". This to improve the game overall, not to make my day easier.
Be precise or stop posting.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1318
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:KingBabar wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Behold! The lone voice extolling the virtues of 1.6.
Yes, HD being fixed is awesome but the inexorable move towards CoDAR514 is unmistakable and what will ultimately kill Dust. Well I haven't played COD so I wouldn't know. The MD, sniper rifle, Scr rile, shotfun, smg, and Scr pistols are still viable weapons, at least in their respective niches, and I'm sure the laser will get a buff sooner or later. And then there are vehicles... People have a tendency to overdo the old COD resemblance. IDK about you, but most of my deaths come in a flash from a Duvolle or one of the AScR. All hail the reign of the AR and its variants! AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 AR514 C'mon, join the chant, you know you want to...
Well I don't feel the same, well I can see the ARs on the killfeed, but here is the point:
I never feel dying to an AR is cheap, it doesn't happen a lot, and when it does its normally a really good player or someone getting the drop on me. It makes sense.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1318
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
ThePrinceOfNigeria wrote:Nope! Funny the lengths people will go to in order to rationalize something they are invested in.
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMGäó
?
I switch between 3 primary weapons and 2 sidearms mixed with 2 different suits. Whats your point?
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1319
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:KingBabar wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:Quote:- Nades, and especially their spammability needs a serious nerf.
- The AI turret aim is just simply insane and needs to be toned down.
- Exit and enter time for fatsuits with LAVs needs to increase. Its just too easy to drive an unkillable LAV and pop out, kill a dude and pop back in again. Two "scrubby russian players" have done this for, well ever, in EU ambush. Its hard, next to impossible to counter, I'd like to see these players perform without this huge benefit. all of this i could care less about. a fatty who adapted to AR 514 does not need a nerf. us scouts who what you call "grenade spam" adapted to you AR users who can kill us less than one second. but when its YOU who is getting killed, then whatever killed you needs a nerf. the rest of this post i can mostly agree with. +1 anyway. Damned forum scrubs.... I did not say the fatsuits need a nerf, just the time to get in and out of LAVs, and its not like an AR/fatsuit combo isn't allowed. And did I mention nades in relation to scouts? I also listed a bunch of deaths that I deserve and find to be OK, I've mentioned that the things which kills me "cheaply" needs a nerf, not by far "whatever killed you needs a nerf". This to improve the game overall, not to make my day easier. Be precise or stop posting. did i not say that this was an overrall good post? and no need to call me a forum scrub. i'm not throwing insults at you so be mature and dont throw them at me. and increasing the time to get into LAVs for heavies IS in fact indirectly nerfing them. if they use the tactic and you tweak it to make it less useable or slower, then that is in fact a nerf. i actually respected this post, but when you started throwing insults, then you lost me.
Well you started it! 
(Picturing me like a "nerf everything that kills me" dude is indeed a grave insult. But lets drop it, peace and love etc.)
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1319
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:While I agree with many of the things you say in this post... No, no, **** no, the TTKs currently are not remotely ok. Seriously. I don't want to play a twitch shooter, that's not what this game was presented as, it's not what this game was designed as (just look at the map design, seriously.) I'm not a FPS veteran, but I do know several of those who agree with me as well. This is not exactly a sudden change, it's been heading this way for a while, but I was hoping they'd stop at some point before it become too ridiculous. Clearly I was wrong. As a wise man once said, "When it gets to the point where people are spending more time on the spawn screen than actually playing the game, it stops being fun." (  steady)
I have to admit that your points makes a lot of sense, I do agree. It just isn't any kind of important for me personally.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1319
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:KingBabar wrote:An ongoing issue, or raher issues, that have been my main gripe with Dust is slowly diminnished patch by patch. I am talking about what I and many other "protostomping wannabe elite players with inflated ego" have experienced as noob friendly mechanics. Prime examples of these are the LLAV nerf, the Flaylock nerf, the MD nerf due to better LOS weapon hit detection and now recently the FG blast radius nerf.
I've said it before and I say it again, getting killed in a 200K proto suit due to some skilless scrub exploiting a cheap mechanic isn't any fun at all.... There was a time when I felt that 9 of 10 deaths I had wasn't deserved at all. Lately not so much, not even close. Dying by a militia AR getting the drop on you, simply getting outgunned or dying to an enemy blob due to too aggressive play is all ok and should be expected.
So the TTK is reduced by 1.6 and many players used to being carried by more EHP and DPS has just lost a little of that crutch and situational awareness, fast reflexes and superior aim has never been more important. I am not a direct fan of the new TTK, a little too fast IMO, but nothing game breaking. It might be a deliberate act to tap people faster for expensive suits in an attempt to cure the economy, I don't really care.
Conclusion:
If the current line of development continues, Dust will become a true competitve FPS sometime in the future. I am very positive towards the current trend of development in this regard, though it could always go faster...
There are however more stuff that needs to be done, to reduce what I call "cheap deaths", if you have more suggestions please bring em forth and I'll update the OP.
- Nades, and especially their spammability needs a serious nerf.
- The AI turret aim is just simply insane and needs to be toned down.
- Exit and enter time for fatsuits with LAVs needs to increase. Its just too easy to drive an unkillable LAV and pop out, kill a dude and pop back in again. Two "scrubby russian players" have done this for, well ever, in EU ambush. Its hard, next to impossible to counter, I'd like to see these players perform without this huge benefit.
So CCP, moving slowly in the right direction, keep it up. I agree with almost all of this, but (1) the Russian guys you are talking about are really good players, LLAV or no LLAV, and (2) there is not really any other viable tactic for heavies on ambush since 1.4. The ambush maps are massive and open now (far more so than Chromosome, for instance) and the v. short TTK and pathetic range on HMG makes infantry heavy impractical on those maps. Occasionally you'll get lucky and spawn in the city with reds so you don't need to use an LAV, but not often. I agree the LLAV tactic is not attractive, and I mostly play skirmish so I don't use it much, but it's not really heavies' fault they resort to this when they are basically locked out of a game mode without it. (And yes, I know tankers do this as well, but that's not a viable 'day job' either due to expense.) If they increased the range (or at least decreased dispersion) significantly on the HMG, it might then be reasonable to make hop out/hop a less viable tactic in the way you suggest.
The tactic is still really cheap regardless. The HMG needs a buff, we all agree on that, but thats a weapon issue, not a suit issue. And why is it that heavies think the HMG is supposed to be a viable weapon for the open maps? Shotguns and HMGs belong around objectves and in CQC areas. Why not use another weapon for the more open scenarioes? It just doen't make any sense at all.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1319
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:KingBabar wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:Quote:- Nades, and especially their spammability needs a serious nerf.
- The AI turret aim is just simply insane and needs to be toned down.
- Exit and enter time for fatsuits with LAVs needs to increase. Its just too easy to drive an unkillable LAV and pop out, kill a dude and pop back in again. Two "scrubby russian players" have done this for, well ever, in EU ambush. Its hard, next to impossible to counter, I'd like to see these players perform without this huge benefit. all of this i could care less about. a fatty who adapted to AR 514 does not need a nerf. us scouts who what you call "grenade spam" adapted to you AR users who can kill us less than one second. but when its YOU who is getting killed, then whatever killed you needs a nerf. the rest of this post i can mostly agree with. +1 anyway. Damned forum scrubs.... I did not say the fatsuits need a nerf, just the time to get in and out of LAVs, and its not like an AR/fatsuit combo isn't allowed. And did I mention nades in relation to scouts? I also listed a bunch of deaths that I deserve and find to be OK, I've mentioned that the things which kills me "cheaply" needs a nerf, not by far "whatever killed you needs a nerf". This to improve the game overall, not to make my day easier. Be precise or stop posting. You know what is "cheap"... getting killed by an AR in MY optimal range when I started shooting first. By your logic, the AR should get hit with the nerf bat. EDIT: BTW why should a heavy have to use a light weapon to be competitive? That is wrong on more levels than I could list in a lifetime
What weapon do you use and are you running a 20 M SP, 200 K isk setup?
The heavies needs to use a light weapon in open areas because the heavy laser hasn't come yet, simply speaking. Its not a
terrible huge investment to skill into a Glu-5....
And yes I do agree about a general AR nerf, except it then should include the Scr Ars and the new weapon.... I made a thread some time ago asking for the 10% damage boost (the one we got due to the removal of the weaponry skill) to getdropped for ARs but not for the other weapons.
I did not mention any general balancing issues due to this being a thread about cheap deaths.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1319
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
I
I use heavy weapons have prof 3 on both and no i dont run proto because its a waste of isk for no benefit what so ever. I specced heavy to use heavy weapons, not to make a an AR user with more hp. I have both shields and armor at lvl 5 and use complex plate just to survive long enough to *maybe* kill things in my optimal.
So not even a maxed weapon?
When I run into any good and decently specced heavy in CQC, I'm normally dead before I can even turn around. If you can't be effective in CQC with the HMG, its mostly your own fault IMO.
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