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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2956
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Posted - 2013.11.07 16:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.
The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2958
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Posted - 2013.11.07 16:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.
The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved. Can not directors also take shares from the Corp? my EVE account has director roles and I can see the shares will I not be able to take them if I tried?
When a DUST character creates a corporation we assign all of the shares to them, so no, an EVE director cannot take any of the shares. This was done to prevent the exact scenario you described.
This case of corp theft by shares only applies if the corp was originally created by an EVE character or if the DUST CEO reassigned the corp to an EVE character at any stage, in which case the shares stay in the corporation wallet.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2958
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Posted - 2013.11.07 16:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vala Prime wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.
The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved. ok so we are screwed thanks for clearing that up that all dust players are usless against anything eve side because we have no tools or notification of the lack of tools to do anything about everything that eve can do to dust players .... yay
You can try petitioning it, but as I said, this can only occur if the corp came from EVE or you assigned it to EVE at some point. In which case we expect that you understand the corporation mechanics (as much as anyone could understand the EVE corporation mechanics anyway, I agree it is pretty confusing).
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2963
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Posted - 2013.11.07 16:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Vala Prime wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.
The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved. ok so we are screwed thanks for clearing that up that all dust players are usless against anything eve side because we have no tools or notification of the lack of tools to do anything about everything that eve can do to dust players .... yay You can try petitioning it, but as I said, this can only occur if the corp came from EVE or you assigned it to EVE at some point. In which case we expect that you understand the corporation mechanics (as much as anyone could understand the EVE corporation mechanics anyway, I agree it is pretty confusing). How can a strictly DUST player understand corporation mechanics that are not present in the DUST client?
We will add a warning message about this specifically, we have no plans to implement shares in DUST but at the same time we cannot remove them from EVE.
Educating people about their actions is the best way forward I think and we can do a better job of this.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2963
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Posted - 2013.11.07 16:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:From a Corp created in Dust standpoint, I simply want to confirm that making an Eve pilot a director, even if I had never granted him a CEO position would not jeopardize my ability to retain control of the Dust Corporation as CEO through the shares system.
I can confirm this. A corporation created in DUST cannot have shares reassigned so long as the CEO remains a DUST character. Giving an EVE character director role is safe in this regard (they can still kick all of the other members etc).
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2965
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:This time CCP it's your fault, we don't have control over shares and the only way to join an alliance in DUST is to trust an EVE player and give him the CEO role.
Give back all the shares to that guy and his CEO role.
Then add a way to join an alliance from DUST without the need of an EVE character.
Alliances are cool and we will add them officially to DUST at some stage but for now they serve little game play purpose and remain an EVE feature just like shares. If you want an alliance you better understand the implications of doing so.
Also, you do have control over shares if you assigned the corporation to an EVE character they can take the shares out of the corporation wallet for safe keeping before giving back the CEO to the DUST character. This all assumes you trust the EVE character though, which is a tough commodity to come by in this game.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2967
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Commissioner G0RD0N wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.
The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved. how about simply removing the ability for an EVE player to have such power over a DUST corp?? nothing in DUST allows these 'shares' so why would it even be in the game? once again the interface between the 2 games causing issues that simply shouldn't be...
The important part of your question here is "DUST Corp". The moment the CEO was assigned to an EVE player it became a mixed corp and so now you are playing with the expanded rules. I get that players want to form alliances but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2967
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Commissioner G0RD0N wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.
The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved. how about simply removing the ability for an EVE player to have such power over a DUST corp?? nothing in DUST allows these 'shares' so why would it even be in the game? once again the interface between the 2 games causing issues that simply shouldn't be... The important part of your question here is "DUST Corp". The moment the CEO was assigned to an EVE player it became a mixed corp and so now you are playing with the expanded rules. I get that players want to form alliances but you can't have your cake and eat it too. So, what can be done for corps that have joined alliances? Now all their shares are floating in a wallet waiting to be taken unless they have active EVE players managing these roles. Plex an eve character specifically to lock them up? edit: nevermind. Apparently going to be plexing an eve character to sort this out.
All you need is an EVE director to remove all the shares from the corporation wallet yes.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2968
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:shaman oga wrote:This time CCP it's your fault, we don't have control over shares and the only way to join an alliance in DUST is to trust an EVE player and give him the CEO role.
Give back all the shares to that guy and his CEO role.
Then add a way to join an alliance from DUST without the need of an EVE character.
Alliances are cool and we will add them officially to DUST at some stage but for now they serve little game play purpose and remain an EVE feature just like shares. If you want an alliance you better understand the implications of doing so. Also, you do have control over shares if you assigned the corporation to an EVE character they can take the shares out of the corporation wallet for safe keeping before giving back the CEO to the DUST character. This all assumes you trust the EVE character though, which is a tough commodity to come by in this game. It sounds to me like you have a disconnect with reality on what's important to your game. Alliances continue to be a hugely important content driver for PC, and the DUST team's failure to implement them properly time and time again is embarrassing. The biggest conflict drivers in this game are things like EoN (an alliance), and then people rising up against EoN. Or Public Disorder (an alliance), and people trying to push them around. Alliances are the number one most important thing for your dev team to be doing.
Of course they are important, but adding official support for them vs say expanding planetary conquest itself I think is a no brainer. The tools to build alliances exist and you guys have proven that its possible provided you work around the sharp edges. It would be a great quality of life addition to have proper support for them but the cost of doing all that right now is not worth doing today (the cost is much higher than I think people realize).
As I said though, we will add it in time but realistically it affects just a handful of people who have to click the relevant buttons, they can deal with managing this from EVE for now.
I am 100% on board with helping explain it all better though, we will add some tasks on our todo list for this.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2970
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:shaman oga wrote:This time CCP it's your fault, we don't have control over shares and the only way to join an alliance in DUST is to trust an EVE player and give him the CEO role.
Give back all the shares to that guy and his CEO role.
Then add a way to join an alliance from DUST without the need of an EVE character.
Alliances are cool and we will add them officially to DUST at some stage but for now they serve little game play purpose and remain an EVE feature just like shares. If you want an alliance you better understand the implications of doing so. Also, you do have control over shares if you assigned the corporation to an EVE character they can take the shares out of the corporation wallet for safe keeping before giving back the CEO to the DUST character. This all assumes you trust the EVE character though, which is a tough commodity to come by in this game. EVE Players in the same Alliance can provide Orbital Support in a Planetary Conquest battle.
Good example, however I would much rather spend time on allowing people outside of your alliance to provide OBs as well. More bang for our development buck.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2986
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Posted - 2013.11.07 23:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:[CCP's stance that this is not a critical item at this time is bull. I respect CCP Nullabar, but he is living in a cloud world on this issue. The players need a way to protect themselves; taking on risks without knowing is stupid.
I absolutely agree with this statement and we will brainstorm some ways to fix the confusion, players should not have their corporation stolen without understanding why or the risks they are taking on. There may be some changes to the handling of shares that make this process safer for CEOs to manage, so I will have a conversation with the team about that as well.
However the reality is that, as you say, revamping the corporation system or integrating alliances into dust would be a fantastic but very expensive task. At this stage, we can provide so much more value into the game with that development time instead, which is why it is lower priority for us.
EVE did not have alliances for several years in to the game, we will get there in the end it's just going to take a bit of time.
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
2995
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:[CCP's stance that this is not a critical item at this time is bull. I respect CCP Nullabar, but he is living in a cloud world on this issue. The players need a way to protect themselves; taking on risks without knowing is stupid. I absolutely agree with this statement and we will brainstorm some ways to fix the confusion, players should not have their corporation stolen without understanding why or the risks they are taking on. There may be some changes to the handling of shares that make this process safer for CEOs to manage, so I will have a conversation with the team about that as well. However the reality is that revamping the corporation system or integrating alliances into dust would be a fantastic but very expensive task. At this stage, we can provide so much more value into the game with that development time instead, which is why it is lower priority for us. EVE did not have alliances for a couple of years (2004 iirc), we will get there in the end it's just going to take a bit of time. I can tell you all that from chatting/badgering him constantly at Fanfest and by twitter that CCP Nullabor is nuts for better Corp UI but like he says a complete revamp of the Eve/Dust corp UI will be a BIG project (like crimewatch big for those who play Eve). I want more corp stuff than anyone else in the game but I know the difficulties in doing it. But this is going to be a continuing problem so if a band aid is needed to give a temporary fix before a reworking of the UI from the ground up can be done, then I'm happy about that. Still going pester the crap out of you Nullabor for my Corp Fittings and hangers still....
Please do, because it is important.
I look forward to chatting more about this at Fanfest next year too (you are coming right?).
CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit
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