DUST Search - [Feedback] Grenade indicators need improvements

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Often times I get killed by grenades I never even seen, usually because it landed behind me. The grenade indicators only work if the grenade is in your line of sight, which can lead to frustrating instant-death scenarios. This problem is unique to Dust, most shooters show you an icon usually with an arrow at the edge of your screen pointing to the grenade's direction for when the grenade isn't in your line of sight; Dust's grenade indicators should be the same way. This would be like how you can still see Skirmish objectives on the corners of your HUD when the objectives are not in your line of sight.

I think this would help alleviate the grenade spam problems many have a problem with.

I disagree on this.
In the past there was NO grenade indicators and the nade game was still okay.
In fact, I was dissappointed when the indicator were introduced, it became so easy to spot them and tell red and blue nades from each other.
Also it took away much of the needed awareness for flying small objects on screen and listening to the sound of 'clank' on your feet.
So that's why I feel against further emphasizing nade markers. Like, no for the on screen hud trajectory of red nade.

I think something as powerful as a grenade needs to have clear and effective markers to balance it its one-hit-kill potential.
If you want the element of surprise just cook the grenade, and blow up your enemy before he even has time to react.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6933	Posted - 2013.11.07 02:44:00 - [1] - Quote Often times I get killed by grenades I never even seen, usually because it landed behind me. The grenade indicators only work if the grenade is in your line of sight, which can lead to frustrating instant-death scenarios. This problem is unique to Dust, most shooters show you an icon usually with an arrow at the edge of your screen pointing to the grenade's direction for when the grenade isn't in your line of sight; Dust's grenade indicators should be the same way. This would be like how you can still see Skirmish objectives on the corners of your HUD when the objectives are not in your line of sight. I think this would help alleviate the grenade spam problems many have a problem with. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1725	Posted - 2013.11.07 02:49:00 - [2] - Quote I like it. Let's give grenades a signature so if they're in range of a passive scan they'll get pinged.
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1293	Posted - 2013.11.07 03:09:00 - [3] - Quote +1 There is absolutely no way to tell if any grenades are around you. That's what we need :D Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. -Mark Twain :D
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1858	Posted - 2013.11.07 03:10:00 - [4] - Quote If you prioritise threads to be bumped, put this one on top. Good indicators could even mean they might not even have to nerf grenades. "..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed." -Veigar
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 239	Posted - 2013.11.07 03:11:00 - [5] - Quote Wow this has got to be one of the best ideas yet, tie grenades to passive scans. Actually will give a reason for passive scans outside beefed up scouts. Plus you could do some cool things with this like make flux grenades have less signature. Or even low radius or low dmg locust grenades with smaller signature.
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 254	Posted - 2013.11.07 07:17:00 - [6] - Quote This pisses me the **** off. I am grateful somebody finally addressed this irritating issue. I die instantly for no reason as a scout, and even when I'm playing assault. Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 276	Posted - 2013.11.07 07:22:00 - [7] - Quote +1 for yes. However, this is definitely not a substitute for an adjustment to grenade damage/radius, as 'skilled' players cook the grenades to the point of air-bursting anyway.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1726	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:21:00 - [8] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: +1 for yes. However, this is definitely not a substitute for an adjustment to grenade damage/radius, as 'skilled' players cook the grenades to the point of air-bursting anyway. That I have less of a problem with than not knowing there is a militia locus grenade right behind you.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 459	Posted - 2013.11.07 16:15:00 - [9] - Quote i seem to have no problem with spotting grenades. im mostly the first to see it. then .01 seconds later im sprinting out of the area before it explodes not even bothering to warn my teammates. ive seen lots of grenades thrown at me and avoided them. the only nade thats gotten me so far is the cooked nade.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6951	Posted - 2013.11.07 18:24:00 - [10] - Quote Hopefully CCP does it Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6971	Posted - 2013.11.08 04:33:00 - [11] - Quote Any more thoughts? Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Talos Vagheitan 150	Posted - 2013.11.08 04:41:00 - [12] - Quote +1 Who cares what some sniper has to say
abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 38	Posted - 2013.11.08 04:43:00 - [13] - Quote Yes!
Lightning Bolt2 From The Mist 318	Posted - 2013.11.08 05:12:00 - [14] - Quote I just feel that CCP needs to fix the nades sound! I often see grenades thrown at me but without sound, same as when I throw them but, it would help new players so I'm in! remember, when you first see lightning play in a open field! from the non-existent mist! forum warrior lvl: pathetic!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6979	Posted - 2013.11.09 05:08:00 - [15] - Quote Still needs improvement Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6986	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:51:00 - [16] - Quote Boom! Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1337	Posted - 2013.11.10 04:03:00 - [17] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Still needs improvement YES it does :D Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. -Mark Twain :D
Ferindar Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 74	Posted - 2013.11.10 06:53:00 - [18] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: +1 for yes. However, this is definitely not a substitute for an adjustment to grenade damage/radius, as 'skilled' players cook the grenades to the point of air-bursting anyway. Grenade Cooking is still valid tactics. Stepping on a grenade thrown at you because it disappeared after hitting the ground behind you isn't. I'd figure that Grenades would be a high priority threat, to the point where those who make the dropsuits would have protocols in for.. But then, seeing as we buy dropsuits by the metric ton, they probably prefer if we break them more.. Regardless, this is a damn good idea. Grenades are a major threat to infantry, and with our technology, we should be able to tell if one's close enough to hurt us. Also, slightly off topic but still somewhat relevant.. If I'm cooking a grenade and you kill me before I toss it, it should stay live. Not suddenly defuse.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 804	Posted - 2013.11.10 19:56:00 - [19] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Often times I get killed by grenades I never even seen, usually because it landed behind me. The grenade indicators only work if the grenade is in your line of sight, which can lead to frustrating instant-death scenarios. This problem is unique to Dust, most shooters show you an icon usually with an arrow at the edge of your screen pointing to the grenade's direction for when the grenade isn't in your line of sight; Dust's grenade indicators should be the same way. This would be like how you can still see Skirmish objectives on the corners of your HUD when the objectives are not in your line of sight. I think this would help alleviate the grenade spam problems many have a problem with. I disagree on this. In the past there was NO grenade indicators and the nade game was still okay. In fact, I was dissappointed when the indicator were introduced, it became so easy to spot them and tell red and blue nades from each other. Also it took away much of the needed awareness for flying small objects on screen and listening to the sound of 'clank' on your feet. So that's why I feel against further emphasizing nade markers. Like, no for the on screen hud trajectory of red nade.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7006	Posted - 2013.11.10 20:36:00 - [20] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Often times I get killed by grenades I never even seen, usually because it landed behind me. The grenade indicators only work if the grenade is in your line of sight, which can lead to frustrating instant-death scenarios. This problem is unique to Dust, most shooters show you an icon usually with an arrow at the edge of your screen pointing to the grenade's direction for when the grenade isn't in your line of sight; Dust's grenade indicators should be the same way. This would be like how you can still see Skirmish objectives on the corners of your HUD when the objectives are not in your line of sight. I think this would help alleviate the grenade spam problems many have a problem with. I disagree on this. In the past there was NO grenade indicators and the nade game was still okay. In fact, I was dissappointed when the indicator were introduced, it became so easy to spot them and tell red and blue nades from each other. Also it took away much of the needed awareness for flying small objects on screen and listening to the sound of 'clank' on your feet. So that's why I feel against further emphasizing nade markers. Like, no for the on screen hud trajectory of red nade. I think something as powerful as a grenade needs to have clear and effective markers to balance it its one-hit-kill potential. If you want the element of surprise just cook the grenade, and blow up your enemy before he even has time to react. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7105	Posted - 2013.11.14 01:47:00 - [21] - Quote Do it Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7105	Posted - 2013.11.17 18:38:00 - [22] - Quote Do it Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 939	Posted - 2013.11.17 19:03:00 - [23] - Quote A simple idea to an ongoing problem. I like it. All hail the king of the forums. In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
Valmar Shadereaver The Exemplars Top Men. 34	Posted - 2013.11.17 20:34:00 - [24] - Quote a good idea give each type of grenade a difrent signature level while your at it where are the difrent capacity grenade's? cause seeing difrent suit type's have a difrent capacity grenade slot but no actual difrent capacety grenade's just seems wrong to me
Sky Kage Clones Of The Damned 60	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:06:00 - [25] - Quote Even "Call of duty" has a better grenade detection then dust... It is realistic though. if you dont see the grenade through your own line of sight, you're not gonna know is there until it's late. Ferindar wrote: [quote=Awry Barux]Also, slightly off topic but still somewhat relevant.. If I'm cooking a grenade and you kill me before I toss it, it should stay live. Not suddenly defuse. ^--- I agree to this as well. I die alot AND have fun... Who knew?
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7106	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:08:00 - [26] - Quote Sky Kage wrote: Even "Call of duty" has a better grenade detection then dust... It is realistic though. if you dont see the grenade through your own line of sight, you're not gonna know is there until it's late. Realism is not an excuse for bad game design, balance is always more important than realism. We have high tech suits with advanced sensors. Its unrealistic to not be able to detect it if its whithin our scan radius. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 951	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:32:00 - [27] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Sky Kage wrote: Even "Call of duty" has a better grenade detection then dust... It is realistic though. if you dont see the grenade through your own line of sight, you're not gonna know is there until it's late. Realism is not an excuse for bad game design, balance is always more important than realism. We have high tech suits with advanced sensors. Its unrealistic to not be able to detect it if its whithin our scan radius. So true. Games are about fun not realism. Fun > Realism
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 131	Posted - 2013.11.18 23:18:00 - [28] - Quote I really hope CCP takes the feedback from this thread to heart. Its a little silly that our mercs tracking computer can't highlight threats to us. I think our suits software needs an upgrade EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 512	Posted - 2013.11.19 00:08:00 - [29] - Quote As much as I die to grenades I really enjoy my stealth grenades, good for 3+ kills per game *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7218	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:51:00 - [30] - Quote Still true Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2165	Posted - 2013.11.25 05:45:00 - [31] - Quote Personally.... I don't want grenade indicators in the game at all. I feel it's a pretty cheap mechanic that only really helps smart players gain an edge over stupid players in the first place. (Since most smart/decent players cook their grenades to avoid people having a chance to escape, thus making the indicator useless.) It is in essence another 'easymode' feature meant to 'help out' players who are unobservant. (I feel strongly that you should NEVER know when a grenade lands behind you, unless there is some kind of audible "clink" as it hits the ground.)
David Spd Caldari State 105	Posted - 2013.11.25 06:12:00 - [32] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Personally.... I don't want grenade indicators in the game at all. I feel it's a pretty cheap mechanic that only really helps smart players gain an edge over stupid players in the first place. (Since most smart/decent players cook their grenades to avoid people having a chance to escape, thus making the indicator useless.) It is in essence another 'easymode' feature meant to 'help out' players who are unobservant. (I feel strongly that you should NEVER know when a grenade lands behind you, unless there is some kind of audible "clink" as it hits the ground.) Maybe not a good argument but not everybody has a good sound system. That "clink" I rarely hear. I'm playng using the built-in speakers on my monitor. I would like to see nades work like other threats. Give it a scan profile. Higher ranks are harder to detect. That way if you want to improve your chances of hitting you can invest higher in the tree. If not and you're jut good at cooking then nothing is lost. On a semi related note... I wonder if there's any deaf players? --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1082	Posted - 2013.11.25 06:49:00 - [33] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Personally.... I don't want grenade indicators in the game at all. I feel it's a pretty cheap mechanic that only really helps smart players gain an edge over stupid players in the first place. (Since most smart/decent players cook their grenades to avoid people having a chance to escape, thus making the indicator useless.) It is in essence another 'easymode' feature meant to 'help out' players who are unobservant. (I feel strongly that you should NEVER know when a grenade lands behind you, unless there is some kind of audible "clink" as it hits the ground.) I think what's most important here is that everyone can learn something from a death and communicate that to a teammate. I totally agree that the element of surprise needs to be an effective combat tool....and am not really concerned about players needing information to keep themselves from harm. What I think is fair though is being able to say "The sniper is to the Northeast!" or "The grenade came down the stairs!" on comms. Without the ability (visual, auditory, or haptic) to identifty what is killing us or from what general direction, you create killing methods without counters. CCP is clearly drifting (community outcry aside) towards a low TTK, cover-dependent combat environment where positioning is critical to survival. And anytime positioning is important, so is knowing the position of your attacker.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 746	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:14:00 - [34] - Quote How about making them more noticeable? Give grenades a colored glow that increases in intensity as the fuse time counts down with them initially not having any glow. Doesn't need to be too bright, just enough so observant players can notice them (amidst the flying colors of the different gunfires). It would also give our grenades a more sci-fi-y feel to them. Locus - Red or Yellow Flux - Green or Blue AV - Blue or white As for landing grenades landing behind you, of course you won't see it. You can't detect a full-sized merc standing right behind you (unless you invest in range extenders & precision enhancers), so why should you be able to know about a small piece of equipment the size of a potato? !
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 927	Posted - 2013.11.26 12:17:00 - [35] - Quote Only if it got a low sig radius.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1285	Posted - 2013.11.26 13:55:00 - [36] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Often times I get killed by grenades I never even seen, usually because it landed behind me. The grenade indicators only work if the grenade is in your line of sight, which can lead to frustrating instant-death scenarios. This problem is unique to Dust, most shooters show you an icon usually with an arrow at the edge of your screen pointing to the grenade's direction for when the grenade isn't in your line of sight; Dust's grenade indicators should be the same way. This would be like how you can still see Skirmish objectives on the corners of your HUD when the objectives are not in your line of sight. I think this would help alleviate the grenade spam problems many have a problem with. I disagree on this. In the past there was NO grenade indicators and the nade game was still okay. In fact, I was dissappointed when the indicator were introduced, it became so easy to spot them and tell red and blue nades from each other. Also it took away much of the needed awareness for flying small objects on screen and listening to the sound of 'clank' on your feet. So that's why I feel against further emphasizing nade markers. Like, no for the on screen hud trajectory of red nade. I think something as powerful as a grenade needs to have clear and effective markers to balance it its one-hit-kill potential. If you want the element of surprise just cook the grenade, and blow up your enemy before he even has time to react. I'm with KEROSIINI-TERO on this one. The red and blue markers are more than enough spoon feeding for me. When the match counts i play with headphones. I can hear every grenade hit the ground and make a good estimation of the location from the sound. If a grenade gets me it's for one of three reasons: i was trapped, it was cooked or i decided to push my luck. All those situations are acceptable and desirable gameplay. Perhaps the game should use the same technology Kagehoshi is proposing for grenades to warn us there's a nova knife behind us as well? I'm feeling like there's a lot of pressure to bring the nanny state to New Eden. I support SP rollover.
Kilo Shells G.L.O.R.Y 12	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:05:00 - [37] - Quote How about a compromise? While I'm never hit by grenades unless they are baked. But possibly because I do recognize the sound of it being pulled, tossed, ticking, and whatever that final noise is before it pops. But maybe new players can't and maybe you like your volume at zero;). I reccomend a module. An "easy mode" option that requires a little bit of sacrifice. If it's worth it to someone equip the module and if it's not don't. Finally I will toss out a name for this module, beat it if you can. "Threat proximity sensor" lol a cookie for whom can come up with a better name. Try to keep up Basic- detects basic nades Enhanced- detects advanced nades Complex- detects prototype nades I know it's a tad unorganized but I hope I've made my point
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 193	Posted - 2013.12.09 17:12:00 - [38] - Quote I agree with the OP. The not Logic Bomb! -->We need better comms!<--
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 191	Posted - 2013.12.09 17:39:00 - [39] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Often times I get killed by grenades I never even seen, usually because it landed behind me. The grenade indicators only work if the grenade is in your line of sight, which can lead to frustrating instant-death scenarios. This problem is unique to Dust, most shooters show you an icon usually with an arrow at the edge of your screen pointing to the grenade's direction for when the grenade isn't in your line of sight; Dust's grenade indicators should be the same way. This would be like how you can still see Skirmish objectives on the corners of your HUD when the objectives are not in your line of sight. I think this would help alleviate the grenade spam problems many have a problem with. And grenade should really make less damage. (Locus) Right now they instant-kill everybody and can be cooked really easily. Yesterday just got an Pentakill with a simple Locus M1...... 3 is too much and they are too powerful..... They should make less damage than that. OR makes damage ONLY on armor and don't have effect if shield is still raised. (But if shield has been destroy then YES it will instant kill. Because right know you cook launch make instant kill with everybody. Can spam them AND kill everybody in a single item. (that is spammable)
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 196	Posted - 2013.12.09 18:14:00 - [40] - Quote I got four with one grenade about a week and a half ago. You've made me jealous now. The not Logic Bomb! -->We need better comms!<--

DeadlyAztec11 2875	Posted - 2013.12.23 10:56:00 - [41] - Quote How about a compromise, grenades only get indicators if you saw the grenade be thrown. That way stealth remains intact while balance is achieved. »We still have our honor!
Exodeon Salviej the third day Public Disorder. 8	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:38:00 - [42] - Quote Hmmm...as much as it sounds good, I think the marker is fine where it is. If you don't see the marker in front of you, why should you see it behind you? I, myself, find it entertaining with how it is. I usually spot a little black ball coming from down the hallway(usually from Dark Legion, the Hive Mind of Tiny Tina), but when I'm hacking an objective, or something along those lines, and I hear that "Clink, clink... -Whirring sound as it charges to blow.-" I go, "Oh ****..." and poof. Self awareness is an important thing on the battlefeild, and if you remove that, then it kinda just becomes CoD, or BF... :I This game, as well as Eve, are both hellbent on players personal skill, tactics, and periferal awareness. That's what sets this game apart from the usual CoD, or BF, or even Borderlands for that matter. You can upgrade your skills to max, but you can still get your ass handed to you by the person who can 1up you better than mario and a fireflower. Your face is something to shoot, so I will shoot. Don't be offended, I do it to everyone.


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