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Alpha 443-6732
190
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
No heavy weapon will be truly balanced until the AR crowd can accept the heavy's tradeoffs for overall better weapons.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
192
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:No heavy weapon will be truly balanced until the AR crowd can accept the heavy's tradeoffs for overall better weapons. Are heavy weapons supposed to be overall better though? Higher DPS I can understand, but better overall? I always thought the Heavy traded speed for tank and equipment for heavy weapons, which are just different and perform certain jobs exceedingly well.
Better offensive capabilities, but naturally slower and clunkier. We already have the latter.
Should a scrambler pistol be better than an AR? Should the AR be a "niche" CQC weapon while the smg dominates?
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
194
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:No heavy weapon will be truly balanced until the AR crowd can accept the heavy's tradeoffs for overall better weapons. Are heavy weapons supposed to be overall better though? Higher DPS I can understand, but better overall? I always thought the Heavy traded speed for tank and equipment for heavy weapons, which are just different and perform certain jobs exceedingly well.
To be fair, in this case I'm talking about the HMG, which is like the AR of heavy suits. If you want to compare AV weapons, the forge gun will soon greatly outperform the swarm launcher, which is completely fair.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
194
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Why are you comparing HMG to assault rifle? Better yet, why does every single heavy feel that HMG IS A REQUIRED to use a heavy suit? If you want more range, then slap a damn AR on your suit. I do just fine with my HMG in CQC against ARs and I wasnt spoiled by HMGs range in chromosome.
All you heavies want is a weapon that can do everything and a suit that can take in everything.
I'm a tanker. I'm sympathetic for other redundant classes...
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
199
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:HMG Enthusiast here.
Nothing is wrong with this weapon.
Sharpshooter skill similar to AR and SMG should be added.
Anything more will result more eventual nerfing.
Ever put a Boundless or a Duvolle on a Heavy with Complex Kinetic Catalyzers, Reps, and a Cardiac Regulator?
Wait til the HP buff if you haven't already.
It is so disgustingly sick.
Think outside of the box sometimes, kids.
There is no "right" way to build a dropsuit.
You can make it do what you want it to, if you invest your SP properly.
Let's try to avoid balancing on pub matches, please.
Also, what I have bolded is clearly wrong, based on the feedback from heavies in PC and the threads about boycotting heavies by some of the more high skilled players...
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
199
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Too many people want to play the Heavy as if they are assaults,when the class was designed for suppressive fire.
If people actually played it the way it was intended to be played,there would be a lot less complaining about it.
You can't suppress if you aren't that much of a threat at range to begin with. You guys continue to act as if the current heavy + HMG is fine and it really isn't. It's fundamentally flawed, because people treat it as a niche light weapon that you need to skill into an entire suit tree just to use.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
199
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:The HMG is lacking, most can agree.
That's why they should... Now hear me out before you grab your pitchforks.
Reduce the damage per bullet.
Then they could increase the accuracy of the weapon by a wide margin. To be about as accurate as a Scrambler Pistol's hipfire accuracy (a little less)
Basically, make the HMG an SMG with a stupid fast RoF and huge magazine.
Let's see here...
The HMG fires 2000 rpm.
In order to put it at a reasonable DPS (~550 at Prototype),
Individual rounds from an HMG should do 16 damage (at prototype).
(16x2000)++60= 533.3 DPS(PRO)
(15x2000)++60= 500.0 DPS(ADV)
(14x2000)++60= 466.7 DPS(STD)
It would have a shorter range than the AR, but a massive magazine, a higher DPS, and somewhat comparable accuracy. The DPS on the HMG would climb quickly through the teirs (with the PRO variant doing almost 15% more damage than the STD, but the effective range of the HMG would remain static throughout the teirs as a tradeoff for the large damage progression.
Any Heavies have anything to say?
I really don't think that's acceptable, but I'll link it to the heavy boycott thread. You still are treating an HMG as a niche light weapon.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
199
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:The HMG is lacking, most can agree.
That's why they should... Now hear me out before you grab your pitchforks.
Reduce the damage per bullet.
Then they could increase the accuracy of the weapon by a wide margin. To be about as accurate as a Scrambler Pistol's hipfire accuracy (a little less)
Basically, make the HMG an SMG with a stupid fast RoF and huge magazine.
Let's see here...
The HMG fires 2000 rpm.
In order to put it at a reasonable DPS (~550 at Prototype),
Individual rounds from an HMG should do 16 damage (at prototype).
(16x2000)++60= 533.3 DPS(PRO)
(15x2000)++60= 500.0 DPS(ADV)
(14x2000)++60= 466.7 DPS(STD)
It would have a shorter range than the AR, but a massive magazine, a higher DPS, and somewhat comparable accuracy. The DPS on the HMG would climb quickly through the teirs (with the PRO variant doing almost 15% more damage than the STD, but the effective range of the HMG would remain static throughout the teirs as a tradeoff for the large damage progression.
Any Heavies have anything to say? I really don't think that's acceptable, but I'll link it to the heavy boycott thread. You still are treating an HMG as a niche light weapon. I tried. I don't know what you Heavies want your gun to be like, so I just tried to make it more like something I would like.
I am not a heavy, I am a pilot (tanker). I'm suggesting that we look at the fundamentals of the heavy weapon before we throw numbers into the mix.
Since the heavy makes compromises to its mobility, hitbox and profile to have better defense and offense than a medium frame, people need to accept that an HMG should outgun the AR in most engagements. People aren't considering the sacrifices heavies make to field their "better" guns, and only look at the offense and defense values.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
200
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Rynoceros wrote:HMG Enthusiast here.
Nothing is wrong with this weapon.
Sharpshooter skill similar to AR and SMG should be added.
Anything more will result more eventual nerfing.
Ever put a Boundless or a Duvolle on a Heavy with Complex Kinetic Catalyzers, Reps, and a Cardiac Regulator?
Wait til the HP buff if you haven't already.
It is so disgustingly sick.
Think outside of the box sometimes, kids.
There is no "right" way to build a dropsuit.
You can make it do what you want it to, if you invest your SP properly.
Let's try to avoid balancing on pub matches, please. Also, what I have bolded is clearly wrong, based on the feedback from heavies in PC and the threads about boycotting heavies by some of the more high skilled players... Those same Heavies play FW and pubs. They all run the same fitting. And why not balance on pubs? Is the diversity on the field too much? Is the lag/hit detection not significantly more reliable to base stats off of? PC is just the glory list of what is wrong with this game and only truly favored for it's ISK pirating exploits.
Because pubs are too inconsistent, most blueberries are ignorant/too lazy/incapable of fielding a counter to a weapon, teamwork is mostly not used, among other things.
Plus, balancing around PC where most of the skilled players play gives all weapons the potential to do well. Balancing around pubs leaves us with the mediocre tanks we have today, for example.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
200
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Ultimately when the heavy accepts the fact that ccp has designed the game to be about skill and tactics and not hp, dps or job title these clown threads will end.
Fight like a man in nuetral territory, not look for the upper hand.
You're inferring too much. I'm not saying heavies should always be the best at everything period and leave no room for tactics, I'm saying their compromise should be worth making.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
200
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:I am not a heavy, I am a pilot (tanker) Credibility lost. Go home. [/thread]
But that means the devs who balance the game have no credibility because they don't actually play the game. I have eyes and ears, I can see that many heavies are displeased with what they have here. It doesn't take a genius to know what a heavy suit is intended for.
Do I need to be an alcoholic to form a view on alcoholism?
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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Alpha 443-6732
205
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Posted - 2013.11.04 03:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:I am not a heavy, I am a pilot (tanker) Credibility lost. Go home. [/thread] But that means the devs who balance the game have no credibility because they don't actually play the game. I have eyes and ears, I can see that many heavies are displeased with what they have here. It doesn't take a genius to know what a heavy suit is intended for. Do I need to be an alcoholic to form a view on alcoholism? I've played a few Devs. Sure you have. Most of the ones who play currently (foxfour, logibro) have little to do with game balance, if anything at all.I don't know where this idea comes from. A lot of those Heavies, like Pilots, think they're supposed to be the all-oppressing force on the field - without counter Stop strawmanning what I say.. Not everyone is going to run n' gun 30 mercs every match without much need for Supply Depots or redeploying, but 85% of the crybaby trash on these forums thinks and acts like they're entitled to the moniker of "Slayer" just because they ruled that one week on that tard game with the PvE zombies. No you don't need to be an alcoholic but if you're not, you're just another chud with no clue talking out of your ***. Nothing trumps experience. I'm not saying anything does. Although, an outside view offers a valuable point of view and can allow an alcoholic to be more self aware.
I think you are missing the point of this thread.
AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
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