DUST Search - Infantry Only Mode

Protocake JR wrote:

knight of 6 wrote:

Protocake JR wrote:

The relationship between vehicle vs infantry vs anti-vehicle is so broken right now.

It makes the game borderline unplayable.

how so?

I could write a 10 page report on "how so". Because it's not just tanks, but all vehicles, all manner of AV and everything related to them (skills, ISK, matchmaking, various areas of balance, roles) that is completely out of whack. But i'll try and explain myself in this thread using tanks as a point of discussion. And if I make something unclear, please ask before spewing more forum vomit.

Well one problem is that a tank can be better anti-infantry AND anti-vehicle AT THE SAME TIME. It's an issue so glaringly obvious, it makes me lose hope that shanghai will ever be competent enough to design a balanced game. It makes me wonder why no other game has decided to give tanks a giant, anti-everything, assault rifle. Most games that offer an automatic ballistic secondary weapon with high ROF, balances this out by making it inaccurate with dispersion and kick.

I think another issue stems from the fact drop suits and weapons received an equalization nerf, shrinking the gap between STD gear and PRO gear (remember when proto suits gave more base HP?), however vehicles did not get the same treatment. Right now, we have really really weak EXPENSIVE tanks and really really strong EXPENSIVE tanks.

The developers have failed to establish a balanced risk/reward system and good counterplay.

If I download this game as a new player in skill into the best AV equipment, there is a good chance that I will spend most of the match being useless because matchmaking cannot guarantee that there will be a threatening vehicle on the field. If I skill into tanks, matchmaking cannot guarantee that there will be sufficient AV to stop me from dominating infantry the whole match. On the other hand, as a tanker, I may enter a match full of proto AV; making me useless from the very start.

This is why I still see tanks dominate the whole match without resistance. I've seen, too many times, 4-5 blueberries with swarm launchers and forge guns engage a single tank and the best they can do is suppress the tank (which does not offer rewards) until infantry come and slaughter them (and me) effortlessly.

This is why I still see tanks getting effortlessly destroyed by one or two dudes with proto forge guns and/or swarms. The risk for bringing out a tank is too high. Losing ONE tank means losing more isk than some people make an entire day of playing. This completely screws over anyone who only specced into tanks. It turns, tanking into a luxury which encourages the disregard to balance.

To summarize: Tanks shouldn't be able to stomp infantry and be effective at taking out vehicles at the same time. It needs to be one or the other.

The risk for tanking is too high, but most importantly, the risk is NOT related to the "moment to moment" gameplay, which encourages the disregard for proper "moment to moment" gameplay balance.

There are too many variables in the (tiny) playerbase for the matchmaking to guarantee that there will be equal opposition for tanks and AV. Tanks will continue to get dominated by teams saturated by proto AV. Infantry will continue to get dominated by the enemy team completely saturated with tanks (on the old maps).

To summarize even further: CCP ****** up. CCP has no idea what they are doing. Do not hold your breath for a solution to your problems.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ThePlayerkyle13 D3LTA ACADEMY 1	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:53:00 - [1] - Quote Wouldn't it be nice to have an Infantry Only mode for all of the Current Modes (Skirmish, Ambush, Domination) so that you wouldn't be pestered by Vehicles, although vehicles are a good addition to DUST but sometimes it can ruin the Gameplay & the fluidness of it. To me i think it's good option, but what do you guys think? Leave your thoughts below, Peace...
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1169	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:57:00 - [2] - Quote Only if it was limited to [STARTER FIT]s, Militia, and Standard dropsuits. Pure gun game and passive skills. Cheeseburgers.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4468	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:58:00 - [3] - Quote Wouldn't it be nice to have a Vehicle Only mode for all of the Current Modes (Skirmish, Ambush, Domination) so that you wouldn't be pestered by infantry, although infantry are a good addition to DUST but sometimes it can ruin the Gameplay & the fluidness of it. To me i think it's good option, but what do you guys think? Leave your thoughts below, Peace... Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.
negative49er Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 288	Posted - 2013.11.03 18:10:00 - [4] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Wouldn't it be nice to have a Vehicle Only mode for all of the Current Modes (Skirmish, Ambush, Domination) so that you wouldn't be pestered by infantry, although infantry are a good addition to DUST but sometimes it can ruin the Gameplay & the fluidness of it. To me i think it's good option, but what do you guys think? Leave your thoughts below, Peace... How will tanks be used in skirmish and domination who is going to get out and hack the objective Not me I don't always use the Shotgun, but when I do I use the CRG-3
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1127	Posted - 2013.11.03 18:15:00 - [5] - Quote Vehicles are PART of dust, not an addition to it. Please don't GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 582	Posted - 2013.11.03 18:22:00 - [6] - Quote Solution: Indoor maps (i.e. the interior of an Eve Ship). Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4472	Posted - 2013.11.03 18:23:00 - [7] - Quote negative49er wrote: TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Wouldn't it be nice to have a Vehicle Only mode for all of the Current Modes (Skirmish, Ambush, Domination) so that you wouldn't be pestered by infantry, although infantry are a good addition to DUST but sometimes it can ruin the Gameplay & the fluidness of it. To me i think it's good option, but what do you guys think? Leave your thoughts below, Peace... How will tanks be used in skirmish and domination who is going to get out and hack the objective Not me ... I think you missed the point I was making. Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.
ThePlayerkyle13 D3LTA ACADEMY 1	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:21:00 - [8] - Quote Dominus Fatali wrote: Solution: Indoor maps (i.e. the interior of an Eve Ship). That'll be awesome, it'll be good if we boarded the enemy MCC & Disabled the Reactor then jump out & watch the MCC blow up...
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 906	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:26:00 - [9] - Quote No The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 557	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:28:00 - [10] - Quote we of the vehicle community would be fine with this, however we have one simple request (give some get some, ya know?). we would like all forms of AV removed from all FW and PC matches, you see with infantry only pubs nobody would use normal types. wouldn't it be fun? no AV in FW just some good old fashion tank stomp in PC? "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET

Protocake JR Spyders Inc. 895	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:32:00 - [11] - Quote The relationship between vehicle vs infantry vs anti-vehicle is so broken right now. It makes the game borderline unplayable.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 557	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:40:00 - [12] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: The relationship between vehicle vs infantry vs anti-vehicle is so broken right now. It makes the game borderline unplayable. how so? "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2061	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:41:00 - [13] - Quote only if we get a vehicle only game mode as well, otherwise dust will just become another call of duty and we all know only little kids play that kind of stuff. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2061	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:42:00 - [14] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: Protocake JR wrote: The relationship between vehicle vs infantry vs anti-vehicle is so broken right now. It makes the game borderline unplayable. how so? infantry don't want vehicles to be another thing to skill into, they just want grunt, grunt, grunt gameplay no thinking. thus we are in this situation that we have to have a vehicle rebalancing Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1190	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:50:00 - [15] - Quote ThePlayerkyle13 wrote: Wouldn't it be nice to have an Infantry Only mode for all of the Current Modes (Skirmish, Ambush, Domination) so that you wouldn't be pestered by Vehicles, although vehicles are a good addition to DUST but sometimes it can ruin the Gameplay & the fluidness of it. To me i think it's good option, but what do you guys think? Leave your thoughts below, Peace... They only ruin the game if you want a Call of Duty experience. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Protocake JR Spyders Inc. 895	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:51:00 - [16] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: Protocake JR wrote: The relationship between vehicle vs infantry vs anti-vehicle is so broken right now. It makes the game borderline unplayable. how so? I could write a 10 page report on "how so". Because it's not just tanks, but all vehicles, all manner of AV and everything related to them (skills, ISK, matchmaking, various areas of balance, roles) that is completely out of whack. But i'll try and explain myself in this thread using tanks as a point of discussion. And if I make something unclear, please ask before spewing more forum vomit. Well one problem is that a tank can be better anti-infantry AND anti-vehicle AT THE SAME TIME. It's an issue so glaringly obvious, it makes me lose hope that shanghai will ever be competent enough to design a balanced game. It makes me wonder why no other game has decided to give tanks a giant, anti-everything, assault rifle. Most games that offer an automatic ballistic secondary weapon with high ROF, balances this out by making it inaccurate with dispersion and kick. I think another issue stems from the fact drop suits and weapons received an equalization nerf, shrinking the gap between STD gear and PRO gear (remember when proto suits gave more base HP?), however vehicles did not get the same treatment. Right now, we have really really weak EXPENSIVE tanks and really really strong EXPENSIVE tanks. The developers have failed to establish a balanced risk/reward system and good counterplay. If I download this game as a new player in skill into the best AV equipment, there is a good chance that I will spend most of the match being useless because matchmaking cannot guarantee that there will be a threatening vehicle on the field. If I skill into tanks, matchmaking cannot guarantee that there will be sufficient AV to stop me from dominating infantry the whole match. On the other hand, as a tanker, I may enter a match full of proto AV; making me useless from the very start. This is why I still see tanks dominate the whole match without resistance. I've seen, too many times, 4-5 blueberries with swarm launchers and forge guns engage a single tank and the best they can do is suppress the tank (which does not offer rewards) until infantry come and slaughter them (and me) effortlessly. This is why I still see tanks getting effortlessly destroyed by one or two dudes with proto forge guns and/or swarms. The risk for bringing out a tank is too high. Losing ONE tank means losing more isk than some people make an entire day of playing. This completely screws over anyone who only specced into tanks. It turns, tanking into a luxury for rich people which encourages the disregard to balance. To summarize: Tanks shouldn't be able to stomp infantry and be effective at taking out vehicles at the same time. It needs to be one or the other. The risk for tanking is too high, but most importantly, the risk is NOT related to the "moment to moment" gameplay, which encourages the disregard for proper "moment to moment" gameplay balance. There are too many variables in the (tiny) playerbase for the matchmaking to guarantee that there will be equal opposition for tanks and AV. Tanks will continue to get dominated by teams saturated by proto AV. Infantry will continue to get dominated by the enemy team completely saturated with tanks (on the old maps). To summarize even further: CCP ** up. CCP has no idea what they are doing. Do not hold your breath for a solution to your problems.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 562	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:56:00 - [17] - Quote thank you for the essay. you points are well made and I see where you are coming from. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1401	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:00:00 - [18] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: knight of 6 wrote: Protocake JR wrote: The relationship between vehicle vs infantry vs anti-vehicle is so broken right now. It makes the game borderline unplayable. how so? I could write a 10 page report on "how so". Because it's not just tanks, but all vehicles, all manner of AV and everything related to them (skills, ISK, matchmaking, various areas of balance, roles) that is completely out of whack. But i'll try and explain myself in this thread using tanks as a point of discussion. And if I make something unclear, please ask before spewing more forum vomit. Well one problem is that a tank can be better anti-infantry AND anti-vehicle AT THE SAME TIME. It's an issue so glaringly obvious, it makes me lose hope that shanghai will ever be competent enough to design a balanced game. It makes me wonder why no other game has decided to give tanks a giant, anti-everything, assault rifle. Most games that offer an automatic ballistic secondary weapon with high ROF, balances this out by making it inaccurate with dispersion and kick. I think another issue stems from the fact drop suits and weapons received an equalization nerf, shrinking the gap between STD gear and PRO gear (remember when proto suits gave more base HP?), however vehicles did not get the same treatment. Right now, we have really really weak EXPENSIVE tanks and really really strong EXPENSIVE tanks. The developers have failed to establish a balanced risk/reward system and good counterplay. If I download this game as a new player in skill into the best AV equipment, there is a good chance that I will spend most of the match being useless because matchmaking cannot guarantee that there will be a threatening vehicle on the field. If I skill into tanks, matchmaking cannot guarantee that there will be sufficient AV to stop me from dominating infantry the whole match. On the other hand, as a tanker, I may enter a match full of proto AV; making me useless from the very start. This is why I still see tanks dominate the whole match without resistance. I've seen, too many times, 4-5 blueberries with swarm launchers and forge guns engage a single tank and the best they can do is suppress the tank (which does not offer rewards) until infantry come and slaughter them (and me) effortlessly. This is why I still see tanks getting effortlessly destroyed by one or two dudes with proto forge guns and/or swarms. The risk for bringing out a tank is too high. Losing ONE tank means losing more isk than some people make an entire day of playing. This completely screws over anyone who only specced into tanks. It turns, tanking into a luxury which encourages the disregard to balance. To summarize: Tanks shouldn't be able to stomp infantry and be effective at taking out vehicles at the same time. It needs to be one or the other. The risk for tanking is too high, but most importantly, the risk is NOT related to the "moment to moment" gameplay, which encourages the disregard for proper "moment to moment" gameplay balance. There are too many variables in the (tiny) playerbase for the matchmaking to guarantee that there will be equal opposition for tanks and AV. Tanks will continue to get dominated by teams saturated by proto AV. Infantry will continue to get dominated by the enemy team completely saturated with tanks (on the old maps). To summarize even further: CCP ** up. CCP has no idea what they are doing. Do not hold your breath for a solution to your problems. Wellm until they make it to where I pay 5 k for a STD turret, and 47k for a PROTO one, be ******* quiet. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Protocake JR Spyders Inc. 895	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:05:00 - [19] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Wellm until they make it to where I pay 5 k for a STD turret, and 47k for a PROTO one, be ******* quiet. Are you autistic? It's the problem is deeper and more complicated than that. You are not going to solve anything by dampening discussion with one line forum posts.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 523	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:09:00 - [20] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Wouldn't it be nice to have a Vehicle Only mode for all of the Current Modes (Skirmish, Ambush, Domination) so that you wouldn't be pestered by infantry, although infantry are a good addition to DUST but sometimes it can ruin the Gameplay & the fluidness of it. To me i think it's good option, but what do you guys think? Leave your thoughts below, Peace... That would be awesome! Tank warfare!



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