|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
2028
   |
Posted - 2013.10.31 09:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, everyone knows that the skill system is a problem. Both the layout of the system, and the way we earn SP are just... not good. There's no way to catch up if you miss a week or start later than someone, and the passive bonuses make two people using exactly the same fit, have some pretty huge differences in the stats of those fits. It's messy, and nowhere near good for the overall health of the game.
I dream of a progression system that is entirely different. A dream where there is no gain cap, progression creates wealth, is cyclical, and doesn't throw a wrench in state of balance. A dream where CCP has finally given us weapon customization. In this dream, the skill tree is somewhat flattened. Skills like sharpshooter simply unlock different scopes and sights, and other support skills either do the same for their related attachments, or be removed. The ultimate goal is for SP to be a means to an end, rather than to be the incentive for playing and a major factor in balance.
I ask you to dream with me now.
Re-Defining Skillpoints:
Passive bonuses would be gone. Entirely. The entire purpose of gaining SP would be to unlock new things. (In this dream, there is much more content to make this reasonable) Think in games like Battlefield or CoD, where ranking up will grant you another weapon. Using submachine guns will unlock more submachine guns, using assault rifles will unlock more assault rifles, and so on. Player progression comes from what they use, not arbtirarily via earned and allocated SP. Passive SP will no longer be a thing, but a small portion of SP earned in battles will be 'unallocated' to allow players to 'fill out' in ways that they see fit.
'Maxing out' a given weapon could be done within a fairly short time, being Days/Weeks. "Maxing out" a given glass and all of it's gear would take weeks to a month or so. Now, that probably sounds crazy, for a game that's supposed to have a lifespan of years, right? Stay with me for a moment. What does almost every other game out there do when players "Max out"? They add a 'Prestige mode' and let them start all over again, with a fancy badge and maybe a neat new unlock. In my dream... Our "prestige" option deducts skillpoints in certain denominations (1m SP, 5m SP, 10m SP, etc.) from a player (allowing them to choose which skills are reduced) and puts those skills into a "Skill cluster". These skill clusters can then be traded to various NPC corps for Loyalty Points, or traded to other players.
The relatively short time to "Max out" works in our favor here, because if we create an incentive to 'cash out' every few months, it provides a player with something valuable and essentially refreshed the content and gives the player the goal of running through it again to earn their reward. This could easily be explained lore-wise as something like the NPC corps using our experience for the newly trained clones, creating the tutorials, and so forth. The key here is to create a reward that makes losing access to certain (or all) of your pieces of gear "worth it"
Here's the cool part though... Players could apply skill clusters (even their own) to their character, basically allowing them to "buy SP" from another player if they don't have enough to use a certain weapon, or even use it as a re-spec tool. Remember that since there are no passive bonuses, players getting a massive spike in SP no longer becomes a huge balance concern, and there is no fear of creating 'super characters'.
For monetization :
CCP could still sell boosters that allow bonus SP to be gained within matches, and possibly boost the amount that goes un-allocated, which would replace the passive boosters. Also an option is creating a time limit to how often Skill Clusters could be extracted and applied to a character (Separate timers) which could be skipped by chucking some aurum at the system.
Keeping the Current system: (But for the love of god, adding a rollover AND way for people to catch up)
I'm kind of confident that the "Skill Cluster" concept could work fairly well within the current system, as well. If we exclude the ability for SP earned passively to be inserted into a cluster, we'll never have to worry about people using massive alt farms to create 'super characters' for their main. Using the current system, I think a player should be able to create/use one skill cluster for free (Separate timers) once every three months, but allow people to pay aurum for the ability to do each right away. Clusters should come in denominations of 2, 5, and 10 million SP, and be tradeable on the player market. There is a small fear of creating 'super characters' so I think that there should be a cap imposed on how much SP someone can gain from a cluster... Probably determined by character age or total current SP (excluding SP from previous clusters NOT taken from your own clone). This is where it starts to get a bit messy, and determining what is "fair" becomes a matter of personal opinion, which I will leave to the community to decide, if they even like the idea in the first place :P |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
2045
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 21:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
@Nova Knife:
DUST is the only FPS I've ever bothered to get invested in. It's precisely because it appeals to the RPG gamer in me. Trying to make DUST into a PS2 clone with lobby-shooter mechanics is one of the most moronic ideas I've ever read. You're sacrificing everything that makes DUST unique and interesting in favor of making it easier for the new player to get invested. There are many ways to improve the NPE than destroying the foundation of the game.
If a progression system that boxes people in and segregates players using the exact same gear at different power levels is all that makes DUST unique, then we're in serious trouble.
My whole point is that CCP's putting too much focus on progression. They're moving forward with the entire perception that SP should be the be-all, end-all of DUST and monetizing based off that. It's crappy, and wrong. A progression system is not all there is to making a proper RPG. A progression system where your character gets exponentially powerful with each level is common in RPG's with PVE as their main focus, but generally leads to some pretty awful balance the deeper the tree goes when you involve PVP. With dust, this has been especially true. While sure, player skill will always be greater than character skill in terms of success, it's just a messy, poorly implemented system that spits in the face of balance.
I have serious concerns about the current system, for two reasons. Firstly, because it's not sustainable. Sure, they're charging for boosters to make money off it... but after someone 'maxes out' a given specialization at around 15-20m SP, there's really no incentive to buy boosters to cross-train faster. Sure... Some people will, but most probably won't. Then there's the issue of the tree as a whole. Yes, it'll take around 6-7 years or something to completely fill it... But they're going to have to keep making the tree deeper and introducing new skills to keep the progression content 'fresh' (Whereas the respec option does that for them to a lesser degree, without putting the pressure to make meaningless content just to fill the tree) This concern leads me to one dangerous fear : With an unsustainable income source, CCP will probably feel obligated to monetize in other ways. This is how companies start making "cash grabs", and we've already seen it with poorly thought out market offers like the tactical packs and the W.A.R. Kits.
The above system in my OP is admittedly not perfect, but the idea that someone can reach the top quickly and is rewarded for doing so and starting over not only allows quick turnover, but creates an incentive for people to run low end gear on a more regular basis. Suit and player variety will become much more visible, as players will not simply unlock proto and then just stroll around in that forever more. Further, it creates a cyclical system that frees CCP of the constraints of having to throw in 'filler' content and lets them focus on making things that actually matter, while creating an economic aspect to progression at the same time. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
2051
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 22:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Dude...is this the kind of stuff you are telling CCP that "we" want in Dust?
.
Not in the slightest.
I'm a player, just like any of you. If I have an idea, I put it here first. People can then say "Yes Nova, that's awesome!" or "No nova, you're a moron."
If the latter, then I let the idea die, as it should.
|
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
2060
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 08:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
@ Above :
Yes, I'm an Eve player. I've been playing eve for the past 7 years and Dust for the past 2. The problem with Eve's progression system, is that outside of blob fights, a battle takes much longer than the average 2-3s Time to kill in Dust. A litteral Tab-Targeting game where the majority of the PVP skill involved is fitting and controling your flight path is what you get in Eve. The PVP experience of an FPS game is leagues beyond the whole "Visceral and visually awesome space battle" experience that Eve tries to deliver.
Taking months to progress for a single unlock in Eve is no big deal, because quite simply, it's not the main focus of the game.
And then we look at dust, where it pretty much is.
This is where I have a problem with the system. CCP has a retention problem with Dust, this is no secret. One of the major parts of that is a blatant lack of things to do, that take the focus of the game away from progression and put the 'reason to play' into completing those activities. Honestly, I'm not confident in CCP's ability to ever really get that message, and I feel without strong messaging from the players that progression CANNOT be the primary incentive to play, then dust will -always- have that retention problem, and CCP will only have succeeded in creating the so called "niche within a niche" that they seem to be so afraid of.
Taking months to do something is one thing. But what happens what you get bored of it.... or worse, you get to a milestone to unlock a new thing and realize it's just terrible and you hate it? Your desire to play turns to zero when you realize that to get anything decent of another type of thing will take you weeks/months. This is the second major half of CCP's retention problem. The solution to which, is allowing players to partially re-allocate skillpoints.
Instead of just saying "Yes, let's keep a problem system and throw in an ugly solution like simply offering re-specs without addressing the serious issues" I decided to come up with a new system, that has the highest retention potential possible, and incorporates the re-spec as a measure of creating an economic and social resource that rewards the player for hitting certain milestones, over and over. No, the system is not perfect, and I am not emphatic that it must go in as suggested.
However, like said in previous posts. I believe very strongly that CCP has a hard enough time getting balance right as-is. The passive skill bonuses are simply unnecessary variables in the grand scheme of balance, and as long as CCP is going to keep introducing new content that requires new skills, if they keep saying "We need to give this a good bonus" then the inevitable power creep and balance woes we've suffered for so long are going to continue. Two people using the exact same fitting and suit should have the same stats, regardless of their time spent playing the game.
To be clear, I have no real issue with tiered gear. While I see the merit in tiericided systems that have been suggested... I think the worst of the balance problems come from people who are using the same weapons & suits but have them behave drastically different depending on SP. Having played with a completely maxed out character before (On CCP's special fanfest server. **I DO NOT HAVE A MAXED OUT CHARACTER ON THE LIVE SERVERS** ... Just to make that clear) and having gone up with that character against brand new characters, the difference is completely astounding to use even the most basic gears when facing someone of relatively equal player skill, using equal gear.
|
|
|
| |
|