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That logi/assault argument... yea I know yes another one

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Cosgar ParagonX 6809	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:34:00 - [1] - Quote Look at the logistics base stats, and then look at the assault's base stats, now look at all the available modules aside from shield extenders and plates. That's why I'm going to say no. PS- Use the search function, we don't need 43985304578309 topics about the same damn thing. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6809	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:40:00 - [2] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cosgar wrote: Look at the logistics base stats, and then look at the assault's base stats, now look at all the available modules aside from shield extenders and plates. That's why I'm going to say no. PS- Use the search function, we don't need 43985304578309 topics about the same damn thing. Opinion respected PS- Im never going to use the search function to type in a dead thread. There's 3 live topics in feedback and 3 in general discussion that have responses within 5 hours. Bump one of them. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6812	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:03:00 - [3] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cosgar wrote: Look at the logistics base stats, and then look at the assault's base stats, now look at all the available modules aside from shield extenders and plates. That's why I'm going to say no. PS- Use the search function, we don't need 43985304578309 topics about the same damn thing. Opinion respected PS- Im never going to use the search function to type in a dead thread. There's 3 live topics in feedback and 3 in general discussion that have responses within 5 hours. Bump one of them. no offense, but seriously, who made you forum moderator? if you don't like what the community chooses to discuss then dont participate.... you came in my thread trying to tell me what to do and acting like you already settled this topic and now I see you doing it in this thread... tell us how what you think, but dont tell us what to do... Who made you an expert on logistics dropsuits? I choose to participate because these little QQ nerf circle jerks is why we have only one serviceable weapon in the game, vehicles are a joke, you can ** further than a HMG's range, scouts are quitting, and this game is slowly turning into CoD in space. If you think you have a valid point, I'll make sure I'm there to show you you're wrong. And by the way, you still haven't shown me that epic CaLogi fitting that's faster and tankier than an assault and can carry a Duvolle and triage hives all at the same time. Until you do, I'm confirming that you're just full of **. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6818	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:29:00 - [4] - Quote And again, we have a bunch of people that don't play logistics trying to balance the class. Stop looking for cheap kills and campaign for assault suits to get buffed. You probably would have one by now if you did. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6822	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:04:00 - [5] - Quote calvin b wrote: First off a logi should not in any sane mind be on the same level as assault. But CCP decided to give logi's more CPU/PG and slots, the only drawback is no sidearm unless you are Amarr. I find this absolute BS. Why is a logi a better assault class than the assault class. The logi gets a bonus in healing that allows more slots to be open. The assault has horrible race bonus except the Amarr. On a proto assault, try and fit a proto weapon with an advance sidearm, advance nades, and advance or higher armor/shields or damage mod. You cant you have to decide what to sacrifice and what you have to have to survive. I have all my base stats at 5 and still cannot make a true proto suit. That means proto weapons, armor/shields, and support items like uplinks, nanohives, rep tool etc etc. I am a proto and I should be able to put the very best gear possible on my suit. Then request for the assault suit to be buffed. How many commandos do you see saying that other suits should be nerfed? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:40:00 - [6] - Quote calvin b wrote: Cosgar wrote: calvin b wrote: First off a logi should not in any sane mind be on the same level as assault. But CCP decided to give logi's more CPU/PG and slots, the only drawback is no sidearm unless you are Amarr. I find this absolute BS. Why is a logi a better assault class than the assault class. The logi gets a bonus in healing that allows more slots to be open. The assault has horrible race bonus except the Amarr. On a proto assault, try and fit a proto weapon with an advance sidearm, advance nades, and advance or higher armor/shields or damage mod. You cant you have to decide what to sacrifice and what you have to have to survive. I have all my base stats at 5 and still cannot make a true proto suit. That means proto weapons, armor/shields, and support items like uplinks, nanohives, rep tool etc etc. I am a proto and I should be able to put the very best gear possible on my suit. Then request for the assault suit to be buffed. How many commandos do you see saying that other suits should be nerfed? There is not enough commando players in my opinion to have a voice. The reason is the commandont is a failure. It was supposed to be tier below heavy and 1 tier above assault. CCP killed the class by restricting the slots, CPU/PG, and it is slow as hell. I would love to see the commando become something special, I would love to try the class out for I like the thought of using two main weapons. I would run AR and sniper or SG and AR, but until they make the class viable it will not be taken serious. So majority rules, huh? Judging by how the AR assault is the only serviceable thing in this game while everything else has been dumbed down, I guess you're right. Now that a few skilled players can kill you in a gimped suit, somehow it needs to be nerfed. As many times as I've died to assaults, I should be crying for them to be nerfed and they should since there's more logistics players than assaults on here. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:43:00 - [7] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Said by Killer-12 "Hmm I think just making the logi get the SAME slot load out as an assault and SAME HP and SAME PG/CPU with a base 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU usage and 5% per level might do the trick..." When I saw this I was like why wasn't this like this since the beginning ? I could definitely still tank with 3 lows & 3 highs with 3 equipment slots & a side-arm of course. Maybe not the same base stats but yea same slot load out is a good idea. So what do ya'll think. This is exactly what I want. Maybe with like 15-20 less HP per layer base with a logi (that's 30-40 total HP for those less inept at maths) And due to the awesome bonus logis get they will still be able to fit their equipment. The med frames should be prett much identical except Logis- 3 Equipment Assaults- Sidearm Not every logistics uses those extra slots to tank. I usually fit a complex cardiac regulator and code breaker in my lows and a shield energizer in one of my highs. There's more to module slots than shields and armor. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6828	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:53:00 - [8] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: I never said a suit could do all that... lol... im beginning to think you don't read posts, you just reply to them... And I've realized you don't know how balancing works. Logistics: -Low base stats -No Sidearm (Except for Amarr which is a hybrid) -More reliant on modules -SP intensive -Expensive -Defensive oriented -Support oriented bonuses Assault: -Better base stats -Fast -Sidearm for more DPS -Less reliant on modules -Less SP intensive -Cheaper -Offensive oriented -Weapon oriented bonuses Not sure how much more I can really spell it out. I guess I could do a spreadsheet comparison, but I doubt your reading comprehension is up to snuff if you're having this argument in the first place. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6836	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:39:00 - [9] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: A proto ck.0 assault logi suit is way better than a proto ck.0 assault suit. Not sure how much more I can really spell it out. I guess I could do a suit comparison, but I doubt your suit comprehension is up to snuff if you're having this argument in the first place. You forgot the part where you use some kind of example. But good thing I can easily find one in one of the many speed topics: DeathwindRising wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... a proto caldari logi suit with 515 shields and 288 armor takes 33.75 seconds to recharge its shield from 0 to 515. because its recharge is only 20 hp/s an proto caldari assault suit with 392 shields and 150 armor takes 8.4 seconds to recharge its shields from 0 to 392. because its shield recharge is 84.48 hp/s it would take that logi 27.6 seconds to recharge 392 shields... so unless all your enemies are standing out in the open or simply letting you shoot them, that logi suit isnt what you want to be in for multiple fights. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6836	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:42:00 - [10] - Quote I have 5 months of logi vs assault topics saved, I've seen just about every argument and can produce and even quote better counter arguments from better topics. Difference between back then and now is people actually used math and were still wrong. Now it's all about "Mom! He has more slots than me!" I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Cosgar ParagonX 6836	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:45:00 - [11] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Couldn't put it better myself. Caldari logi was obviously OP, but with that nerfed I think all 8 medium suits are well balanced (except maybe the Minmatar assault, which could use slightly more PG/CPU). CCP really need to leave the nerf gun alone. Never had issues with PG, but less CPU is what keeps it balanced. Just imagine if you could fit all 4 complex extenders, an energizer and dual proto sidearms without an enhancer of some kind in the lows. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6836	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:47:00 - [12] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Cosgar wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: A proto ck.0 assault logi suit is way better than a proto ck.0 assault suit. Not sure how much more I can really spell it out. I guess I could do a suit comparison, but I doubt your suit comprehension is up to snuff if you're having this argument in the first place. You forgot the part where you use some kind of example. But good thing I can easily find one in one of the many speed topics: DeathwindRising wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: but not by enough to make a real impact on the field... scout scanning doesn't win battles or accrue many WPs heavies may have more ehp now but they are still slow as turtles... and the only place turtles win races is in the storybooks... ill take my caldari tanked suit I fit with all complex extenders 1 enhanced dmg mod and all bpo militia plates for a total of 1029 ehp or fit a few enhanced plates and eek out about 1200 ehp over the heavies extra few hundred, plus I can fit triage hives and some remotes for an even larger advantage over the heavy... Im just not seeing a convincing argument to run anything but a logi unless youre a masochist... a proto caldari logi suit with 515 shields and 288 armor takes 33.75 seconds to recharge its shield from 0 to 515. because its recharge is only 20 hp/s an proto caldari assault suit with 392 shields and 150 armor takes 8.4 seconds to recharge its shields from 0 to 392. because its shield recharge is 84.48 hp/s it would take that logi 27.6 seconds to recharge 392 shields... so unless all your enemies are standing out in the open or simply letting you shoot them, that logi suit isnt what you want to be in for multiple fights. So you're whole argument is based on shield regin? lol. And yours is apparently based on being a deadpan snarker. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6836	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:53:00 - [13] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: a proto caldari logi suit with 515 shields and 288 armor takes 33.75 seconds to recharge its shield from 0 to 515. because its recharge is only 20 hp/s This is a suit that can survive a direct hit from my Scrambler and survive / counter me. Quote: an proto caldari assault suit with 392 shields and 150 armor takes 8.4 seconds to recharge its shields from 0 to 392. because its shield recharge is 84.48 hp/s This is a suit fit that gets lolgibbed where it stands. Even if the logi survives the shot, he's still going to be severely weakened right? If not, it'll take forever for his shields to pop and even longer to get back to full HP since he's disregarding his shield recharging modules and his bonus that actually makes regulators worth using. Buffer tanking isn't everything. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6836	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:04:00 - [14] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Cosgar wrote: And yours is apparently based on being a deadpan snarker. No I just think you are being a jackass trying to save your suit from the nerf hammer. The logi suit can do assaulting better than the assault suit take the blinders off and realize this. Do you want suit setups? I can get 1000+ HP, duvolle, core nades, and damage mod. I've been playing Minmatar logistics since Chrome, I switched to it from assault because I got bored with assault. I probably don't need to dedicate all my time proving people wrong in these pathetic topics since logistics isn't under the nerf hammer. Think about it, when's the last time a Dev actually said anything about logis since the CaLogi nerf? Hell, it never was to begin with, just the CaLogi since it really could do it all with its ungodly CPU/PG, racial bonus, and blatant shield > armor imbalance back then. They actually did the right thing by focusing on the real issue instead of bringing down Mjolnir on the whole class, proving that mass QQ doesn't get results. Go ahead, post all the crazy EHP logi fits you can. But like I've said before, it's just a tankier, gimped, expensive assault suit without a sidearm. And even if you get an Amarr fit with more EHP than the assault, the assault is better because of its weapon oriented bonus. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6839	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:14:00 - [15] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Cosgar wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: a proto caldari logi suit with 515 shields and 288 armor takes 33.75 seconds to recharge its shield from 0 to 515. because its recharge is only 20 hp/s This is a suit that can survive a direct hit from my Scrambler and survive / counter me. Quote: an proto caldari assault suit with 392 shields and 150 armor takes 8.4 seconds to recharge its shields from 0 to 392. because its shield recharge is 84.48 hp/s This is a suit fit that gets lolgibbed where it stands. Even if the logi survives the shot, he's still going to be severely weakened right? If not, it'll take forever for his shields to pop and even longer to get back to full HP since he's disregarding his shield recharging modules and his bonus that actually makes regulators worth using. Buffer tanking isn't everything. Buffer tanking at the very least lets him regroup to fight, someone that gets instagibbed is dead and costs a clone. I can make a Caldari Logi fit, exactly like my own Amarr Assault fit and still have slots / CPU & PG to spare to slap on an extra 2 pieces equipment and 200 additional EHP, with only a movement penaly of 0.08 ms Ive tried all the regenerator fits, with the way AA works and the damage guns to, not to mention Tank turret damage, Buffer is the only viable fit right now anyone else are kidding themselves. First off, how many shots can you get off after a charged shot in that logi suit compared to the Amarr assault before overheating? Second of all, I know how you feel about the 1.4 changes to game mechanics. It puts an unneeded emphasis on buffer tanking. I have almost 2 million in shield recharge/regulation and armor repair that's pretty much useless right now. But nerfing a suit isn't an answer when everyone's automatic weapon can deal its full DPS without missing. Before 1.4, I could get away with >700HP on my suit and carry proto equipment with little risk. Nerfing logis when TTK is an issue is like nerfing the MD back when aiming and hit detection were a problem. See my point? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6840	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:26:00 - [16] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Cosgar wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: Cosgar wrote: And yours is apparently based on being a deadpan snarker. No I just think you are being a jackass trying to save your suit from the nerf hammer. The logi suit can do assaulting better than the assault suit take the blinders off and realize this. Do you want suit setups? I can get 1000+ HP, duvolle, core nades, and damage mod. I've been playing Minmatar logistics since Chrome, I switched to it from assault because I got bored with assault. I probably don't need to dedicate all my time proving people wrong in these pathetic topics since logistics isn't under the nerf hammer. Think about it, when's the last time a Dev actually said anything about logis since the CaLogi nerf? Hell, it never was to begin with, just the CaLogi since it really could do it all with its ungodly CPU/PG, racial bonus, and blatant shield > armor imbalance back then. They actually did the right thing by focusing on the real issue instead of bringing down Mjolnir on the whole class, proving that mass QQ doesn't get results. Go ahead, post all the crazy EHP logi fits you can. But like I've said before, it's just a tankier, gimped, expensive assault suit without a sidearm. And even if you get an Amarr fit with more EHP than the assault, the assault is better because of its weapon oriented bonus. You don't know as much as you think you do. This is a suit I've been messing around with for lulz. 3x complex damage mods 2x complex shield extenders complex profile dampener complex armor plate complex armor repairer enhanced cpu upgrade a-86 active scanner hacked nanohive Duvolle maxed out M1 Locus nades 370 shield / 261 armor Damage modes can be swapped for shield extenders same with armor rep for plates for more HP. My assault suit cannot do anything close to this for the cost of a sidearm but my damage mods make that point moot. I'll keep it simple. Even with the crazy damage output you have with the Duvolle + CLDM, you're going to win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but you're dead if someone catches you reloading. May look good on a spread sheet but Dust =/= EVE and that second weapon, extra speed, better shield regen, and sidearm to fall back on (or even lead with) matters a lot more than assaults think. But let's call a spade a spade here- everyone knows ARs are so powerful, you don't even need a sidarm. That's the issue with balance, not the suit. You think that same setup would be as effective with a freedom MD or Imperial? Also, you proved my point with saying you can switch the damage mod for a shield extender. You have to give something up to fit something else. Even with all the buffer in the world, you won't have that damage mod and you'll still be barely faster than a heavy with virtually no stamina. Good for point defense, but not much else. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6840	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:37:00 - [17] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Cosgar wrote: Buffer tanking isn't everything.. First off, how many shots can you get off after a charged shot in that logi suit compared to the Amarr assault before overheating? Second of all, I know how you feel about the 1.4 changes to game mechanics. It puts an unneeded emphasis on buffer tanking. I have almost 2 million in shield recharge/regulation and armor repair that's pretty much useless right now. But nerfing a suit isn't an answer when everyone's automatic weapon can deal its full DPS without missing. Before 1.4, I could get away with >700HP on my suit and carry proto equipment with little risk. Nerfing logis when TTK is an issue is like nerfing the MD back when aiming and hit detection were a problem. See my point? I don't use charged shots much, its easier to straight up peck something to death then be stuck with the overheat from the charged shot. I my assault suit i can roughly get off around 22-24 rounds before overheating, against normal opponents this is enough to kill 4 assaults / normal logi's straight up, before overheating Or 2 normal Advanced heavies or 1 proto heavy or proto logisault. If i use the amarr logi or caldari logi, this drops to 18-19 rounds before overheating, witch is roughly 3 assault suits, 2 standard heavies or 1 proto heavy but i cannot take out a proto logi, unless ofcourse they are actual logi's and not logisaults. I just use my amarr suit because it is the suit i am "supposed" to be using in my role, besides in my amarr logi i got 70 more shields and 100 more armor, with 1 dps mod less and i die allot less when i use it. Seeing they are NEO suits, i dont use them much except to test stuff out with them. I wouldn't say the Amarr suit is what you're supposed to use, but it obviously gives you more of an advantage compared to the Amarr logi, right? You get a weapon oriented bonus that you're not going to get from using the Amarr logistics. (or any logistics suit for that matter) All it really comes down to is personal preference, weapon choice and play style. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6841	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:42:00 - [18] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Please stop. That setup has beast damage output, repairers, A SCANNER to show me everyone, plus a complex dampener which makes me mostly unseen with my prof. at V. Now drop me in a competent squad and I only need to worry about FGs. Screw running and a sidearm. Trust me man I'm 100% assaulter and now I use a logi suit wonder why? Because you found the assault bonuses underwhelming compared to the logi. I've been saying the assault bonuses suck, check my post history. Maybe I should be complaining about assaults being better slayers because the commando sucks. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 6841	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:51:00 - [19] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Cosgar wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: Please stop. That setup has beast damage output, repairers, A SCANNER to show me everyone, plus a complex dampener which makes me mostly unseen with my prof. at V. Now drop me in a competent squad and I only need to worry about FGs. Screw running and a sidearm. Trust me man I'm 100% assaulter and now I use a logi suit wonder why? Because you found the assault bonuses underwhelming compared to the logi. I've been saying the assault bonuses suck, check my post history. Maybe I should be complaining about assaults being better slayers because the commando sucks. Now dense are you? Screw bonuses they were NEVER a factor in my decision. The assault logi can fit MORE and BETTER gear and the assault suit. Do you understand that? You think any new berry can do well with that exact fit? If something takes the least amount of skill to use then you can say its OP. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"