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Harpyja
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
641
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm actually fearing a similar situation like we had in the days of Chromosome. What not with all the AV players saying that they want to respec out of their AV weapons, because they won't be able to solo tanks anymore.
But do you see where this takes us? If very few people are specced into AV, there isn't much to stop a tank from dominating the field again. Infantry will cry OP, tanks will be nerfed again and AV will receive unnecessary buffs. And this is what is was like back in Chromosome: there weren't enough players skilled into AV.
Now, it's all up to the infantry. They can wish to respec out of AV because they won't be able to solo tanks anymore and thus letting tanks dominate the field again. Or, they can keep their AV and learn to use teamwork when bringing down a tank.
In the end, current AV infantry will have to live with their decision. So what's your choice? Respec out of AV because you won't be able to solo us any more? Or keep your AV and learn to use teamwork in bring us down? |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
270
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry. |
Jade Dragonis
GRIM MARCH
240
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'll stick with my forge gun and such but gonna try a bpo suit and bpo lav. Drive into said tank and just before impact jump out and av him. Wanna see how that works lol |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
4358
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
So, you want to be dominant and not just balanced?
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ryo sayo mio
Nyain Chan
61
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Im not worried at all iv been killing tanks without reloading (proto swarms,lv5 prof,4 damage mods) now it might be fun tank hunting for a change |
DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2326
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Time to level up to the last damage proficiency in swarm launchers. Pack Remote Explosives. Work up CPU and PG mods. Get another Complex damage mod.
Also, get proto Flay Lock to deal with Dropships
Time to get proto flux grenades...
#leadfarmer #livinglikelarry #tacos |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2259
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry.
What about most tankers having a non aggression agreement and posting threads giddy about getting to sit next to spawn points and farm kills already?
Anyway on topic, theoretically if I were able to get a refund or what have you on my current AV skills I wouldnt leave the branch alone entirely Instead I would fit myself for a fat suit and become another roof top camping forge gunner just to **** them off |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
165
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry.
Not always, I'd imagine the unspoken truce between tankers may occur again. If the otherside has a good tank, then your side will resist bringing in an equally good tank.
Tank Vs. Tank cost alot of isk., AV infantry does not cost alot. It would be silly to have your only av option being a tank. I can't imagine everyone wants to dump that much isk on the field everytime there is a tank on the other team. I'd think it would be more likely that they will respec into forge. Forges will also get a nerf, but it probably wont be as hard as the swarms got.
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Knight Soiaire
Mercenaries of Sunlight
2824
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
The best way to destroy a tank, will be another tank.
AV would just be another way of doing it.
It will finally be working as intended. |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
271
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:What about most tankers having a non aggression agreement and posting threads giddy about getting to sit next to spawn points and farm kills already?
Anyway on topic, theoretically if I were able to get a refund or what have you on my current AV skills I wouldnt leave the branch alone entirely Instead I would fit myself for a fat suit and become another roof top camping forge gunner just to **** them off
Pent'noir wrote:Not always, I'd imagine the unspoken truce between tankers may occur again. If the otherside has a good tank, then your side will resist bringing in an equally good tank.
Tank Vs. Tank cost alot of isk., AV infantry does not cost alot. It would be silly to have your only av option being a tank. I can't imagine everyone wants to dump that much isk on the field everytime there is a tank on the other team. I'd think it would be more likely that they will respec into forge. Forges will also get a nerf, but it probably wont be as hard as the swarms got.
I will never stop bringing a tank, because of someone special on the other side.
AV will assist killing tanks and will also be able to kill tanks alone.
Hopefully there will be 1-2 tanks on every side, every match. |
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
111
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think it's a hard question to answer since at the moment we have no experience with how tanks will be. I'm not a tanker, and at the moment that playstyle doesn't interest me but as an AV user (only standard swarms and adv grenades) at the moment I only occasionally solo tanks if I get the following: 1) tank doesn't see me 2) tanker isn't a pro 3) fire off 3 swarms before tank reacts 4) get close enough to use 3 grenades if not dead: 5) swarms are reloaded and by the 3rd swarm tank is dead..
I'd say a more heated debate will be necessary after the new vehicles are implemented, as we will be able to see in practical terms how AV fares against tanks, the one change I find necessary in all of this is the limited ammo for tanks, as this will mean picking and choosing targets more carefully, but I guess time will tell whether ammo affects this behaviour or not.
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Meeko Fent
expert intervention Caldari State
1327
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are still outposts.
Us infantry will chill over there. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1537
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
OP hit the nail on the head
In chromosome everyone went into tryhard mode with the protosuit and breach AR
Tanks were left to roam the battlefield unopposed and whos fault was that? Infantrys
Back then tanks took out other tanks, AV could but it took 2 of em with teamwork which is an alien concept to todays AV'ers and in the end the community were mostly using milita AV so all vehicles got nerfed and AV buffed but this thread continued for the next 6+months
Now it seems wolfman is bring it back down, tanks to kill tanks and AV can have a hand in it but if they spec out and no one has a tank or AV on ther side then they will get stomped on
Also forget pub matches, PC is where its at for vehicles since pubs can be so one sided due to crappy matchmaking |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
843
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
My prediction is that it will take 2 good av users to take down a good tank, seems balanced enough to me |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:My prediction is that it will take 2 proto av users to take down a decent tank, seems balanced enough to me Fixed that for you. |
knight of 6
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
512
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry. Not always, I'd imagine the unspoken truce between tankers may occur again. If the otherside has a good tank, then your side will resist bringing in an equally good tank. Tank Vs. Tank cost alot of isk., AV infantry does not cost alot. It would be silly to have your only av option being a tank. I can't imagine everyone wants to dump that much isk on the field everytime there is a tank on the other team. I'd think it would be more likely that they will respec into forge. Forges will also get a nerf, but it probably wont be as hard as the swarms got. we unionized for a while and didn't kill each other but I doubt it will happen again. as long as we don't feel the need to, truth is we like blowing each other up it's fun and a challenge but not particularly profitable especially if AV is op.
tankers union thread |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
26
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Posted - 2013.10.28 14:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seriously, I have driven right by AV infantry just to pick a fight with an enemy tank. But I will say if I join a game and it's already started I sometimes won't call a tank like if its about to be over cause they are redlined already, if my team is already redlined, or one game in particular where my entire team was on rooftops (Not exaggerating btw, 15 players on rooftops with uplinks). |
Thumb Green
Novashift
490
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Stupid tankers will still be solo-able, with militia swarms no less. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
26
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Stupid tankers will still be solo-able, with militia swarms no less, and we all know there is no shortage in them.
Edit: Also I just love how tankers are talking about AV'ers not knowing how to use teamwork when they themselves only recently learned to use it and yet for the most part still don't use it.
Lol, guess Chromosome is recent. |
Thumb Green
Novashift
490
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Posted - 2013.10.28 17:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Commander Tzu wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Stupid tankers will still be solo-able, with militia swarms no less, and we all know there is no shortage in them.
Edit: Also I just love how tankers are talking about AV'ers not knowing how to use teamwork when they themselves only recently learned to use it and yet for the most part still don't use it. Lol, guess Chromosome is recent.
More like in the last 2 months (even then it's mostly just to have a tank or LLAV follow behind repping); the tank spam in chromosome doesn't count as teamwork. Most tankers still don't have infantry squad members support them nor do they intentionally have any gunners. |
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
426
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:The best way to destroy a tank, will be another tank.
AV would just be another way of doing it.
It will finally be working as intended. That's not how it was intended.
When did CCP say that this was the way it was supposed to be
That may be what you want, but that's not how it was intended. Stop pulling things outta your @$$
Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Empire
Everyone will taste my Freedom SoonGäó
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CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1343
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry.
Lol. I always pull tanks if I see another tank to splode. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
1297
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
New HAVs will be easily soloable, as their EHP drops like a stone the second the modules go on cooldown, all you need to do is wait until then and one-two shot the pinata.
Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
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Knight Soiaire
Mercenaries of Sunlight
2835
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:The best way to destroy a tank, will be another tank.
AV would just be another way of doing it.
It will finally be working as intended. That's not how it was intended. When did CCP say that this was the way it was supposed to be That may be what you want, but that's not how it was intended. Stop pulling things outta your @$$
Think about it.
I never said AV would be a bad way of doing it.
Just that another tank would do it faster, and better.
Particle Cannon > Proto Swarms Vs Another HAV.
A cannon attached to a tank, should be a better way of destroying a HAV than handheld AV weaponry.
Knight Soiaire's 40mil ISK Raffle!
Mercenaries of Sunlight!
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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
1977
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Atiim wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:The best way to destroy a tank, will be another tank.
AV would just be another way of doing it.
It will finally be working as intended. That's not how it was intended. When did CCP say that this was the way it was supposed to be That may be what you want, but that's not how it was intended. Stop pulling things outta your @$$ Think about it. I never said AV would be a bad way of doing it. Just that another tank would do it faster, and better. Particle Cannon > Proto Swarms Vs Another HAV. A cannon attached to a tank, should be a better way of destroying a HAV than handheld AV weaponry.
don't bother with him knight, hes dead set on making the biggest things in the game as weak as the smallest things in the game (which probably will happen) its too logical for him to comprehend anything other than run, point and shoot. |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
159
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Meh if there are less av out there I might actually get more kills and less assists. Besides, I like putting the fear of god into tanker hearts with my IAFG.
Dedicated fattie in need of new heavy content.
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Himiko Kuronaga
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2053
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:So, you want to be dominant and not just balanced?
Tanks should be dominant. Dominance for them is balance for the game. They are bigger, more expensive, and require a massive SP sink to use properly.
If you can solo one of these things, why the hell would you ever invest in one? |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
1153
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
nope not at all, not kidding if anyone thinks 60-70% of the game would stand by and let 30% of the player base troll them as unstoppable killing war machines you have to be on some form of medication.
the only questions are if tanks will actually be that way or not, and if so how long before they aren't that way anymore. |
Dengar Skirata
the third day Public Disorder.
17
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Posted - 2013.10.28 19:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
I guess I'm done with the ambush game mode. Typically, if I find that not many members of my corp are online, I'll go solo in ambush. But if taking down a tank is going to require a full squad coordinating their attacks, any decent tanker will be able to destroy the infantry in ambush. Oh, well. I guess I'll just stick to domination for now.
And yes, I know that taking down a tank should require teamwork. But I also think that ambush should only allow infantry. There could be a special gamemode where vehicles are allowed, and one where vehicles aren't allowed. Just my opinion. |
Levithunder
Butt Hurt Try Hards
121
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:OP hit the nail on the head
In chromosome everyone went into tryhard mode with the protosuit and breach AR
Tanks were left to roam the battlefield unopposed and whos fault was that? Infantrys
Back then tanks took out other tanks, AV could but it took 2 of em with teamwork which is an alien concept to todays AV'ers and in the end the community were mostly using milita AV so all vehicles got nerfed and AV buffed but this thread continued for the next 6+months
Now it seems wolfman is bring it back down, tanks to kill tanks and AV can have a hand in it but if they spec out and no one has a tank or AV on ther side then they will get stomped on
Also forget pub matches, PC is where its at for vehicles since pubs can be so one sided due to crappy matchmaking Teehee tryhards:D |
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CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1344
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Posted - 2013.10.28 19:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:So, you want to be dominant and not just balanced? Tanks should be dominant. Dominance for them is balance for the game. They are bigger, more expensive, and require a massive SP sink to use properly. If you can solo one of these things, why the hell would you ever invest in one?
hmmm...since im going rail i might play doms bc all the reds like to be in one place at a time. |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
279
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Posted - 2013.10.28 19:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:hmmm...since im going rail i might play doms bc all the reds like to be in one place at a time.
shield or armor? |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
26
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Posted - 2013.10.30 02:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Stupid tankers will still be solo-able, with militia swarms no less, and we all know there is no shortage in them.
Edit: Also I just love how tankers are talking about AV'ers not knowing how to use teamwork when they themselves only recently learned to use it and yet for the most part still don't use it. Lol, guess Chromosome is recent. More like in the last 2 months (even then it's mostly just to have a tank or LLAV follow behind repping); the tank spam in chromosome doesn't count as teamwork. Most tankers still don't have infantry squad members support them nor do they intentionally have any gunners.
Really? Because I know plenty of AVers complaining about having to have multiple people attack a tank specifically because his squad members will gun them down before they can kill it. Plenty of tanks moved with their infantry in Chromosome, only difference was, tanks could actually see more than 100 meters in front of them so railguns were a viable option, and as a long range weapon they worked best supporting infantry from as far away as possible. As for gunners, I would agree, it's really hard to intentionally have gunners in your tank when blueberries get in ASAP and camp it the whole game. And just to clarify, I saw plenty of spider tanking in Chromosome (usually because I was one of them).
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Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
962
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Posted - 2013.10.30 02:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Harpyja wrote: In the end, current AV infantry will have to live with their decision. So what's your choice? Respec out of AV because you won't be able to solo us any more? Or keep your AV and learn to use teamwork in bring us down?
Edit: if you're already using teamwork, kudos to you!
They WILL be able to solo us, since our HP are going down just like the AV damage. We're getting better hardeners but our passive resistance will be gone. We're getting full time working repairers but they're going to be much weaker. We're going to have limited ammo and slot layout as well.
I can't see that much of a change about Vehicles / AV balance.
-Caldari Achura - One with the Universe
-Tac AR Specialist
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3770
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 02:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Harpyja wrote: In the end, current AV infantry will have to live with their decision. So what's your choice? Respec out of AV because you won't be able to solo us any more? Or keep your AV and learn to use teamwork in bring us down?
Edit: if you're already using teamwork, kudos to you!
They WILL be able to solo us, since our HP are going down just like the AV damage. We're getting better hardeners but our passive resistance will be gone. We're getting full time working repairers but they're going to be much weaker. We're going to have limited ammo and slot layout as well. I can't see that much of a change about Vehicles / AV balance. I don't use any passive resistance modules so its not like its going to affect me...
Either way let us REIGN!
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3770
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 02:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:So, you want to be dominant and not just balanced? Tanks should be dominant. Dominance for them is balance for the game. They are bigger, more expensive, and require a massive SP sink to use properly. If you can solo one of these things, why the hell would you ever invest in one? How many times in recent history I have been FWing, seen the enemy pop tanks onto the map and watch with glee as our crappy blue dots die, all the while my squad is wondering if I'm going to go down there and deal with them.
All I say is.
"This is what happens when you don't respect the Tank, ya get ****** up."
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1316
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 02:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry. And if the enemy has a tank on the field and you don't, your F***ED!
Oh well. |
Meeko Fent
expert intervention Caldari State
1337
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 04:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Tanks will stop tanks. And so both, tankers and infantry have fun.
If there is an enemy tank on the field, a tanker loses every interest in killing infantry. And if the enemy has a tank on the field and you don't, your F***ED! Oh well. And if NOBODY has a militia tank on your team, then your team is very close minded.
Then your AV comes in.
If your million ISK investment is even threatened, don't you think your going to try to keep it safe?
Having 890 damage appear out of nowhere is definately going to scare a tanker into backing off.
It's like when a HMG 40 meters out hits you. Do you not still take cover?
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
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