DUST Search - AR variants needs to be reworked in order to compete with the new rifles

CCP Remnant wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

CCP Remnant wrote:

Ishukone haved worked closely with the Minmatar in the past. Before his death, Otro Gariushi gave Maleatu Shakor Insorum, the antidote for Vitoc for FREE. When it could've been worth trillions.

Seems only fitting that Ishukone would manufacture the occasional Minmatar weapon don't you think?

Unrelated, but you once said this, basically each race's rifle will have variants to mimic the others. Is that still planned? right now the AR has all variants, but the scrambler rifle and the new upcoming rifles seem to only have assault variants.

The base rail rifle is a "breach", slow firing automatic.
Also gets an assault variant.
So rail rifle is missing tactical, and burst.

The base combat rifle is an "burst", fires in 3 round bursts.
Also gets an assault variant.
So rail rifle is missing tactical, and breach.

The base scrambler rifle is a "tactical", fires single fire long range.
Also gets an assault variant.
So rail rifle is missing burst, and breach.

The base assault rifle is a "assault", fires in fast automatic fire.
Also gets a breach variant.
Also gets a burst variant.
Also gets a tactical variant.
So assault rifle is missing NOTHING, and gets EVERYTHING.

You're a hard to find dev on the forums, so I just had to ask despite how unrelated it is.

They're still planned. They won't be coming in the same release as the rail rifle and combat rifle though.

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Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 912	Posted - 2013.10.26 05:57:00 - [1] - Quote Before you pull out the old "no, they are meant to be weaker" argument (which no one at CCP ever confirmed), we have an Assault Scrambler which is a very good weapon and the new rifles are going to have some very valid assault versions as well. The Assault Combat Rifle is going to be some kind of ranged SMG, which sounds amazing, and the Assault Rail Rifle is going to outrange and outdamage the current Blaster Assault Rifle. So no, this argument is invalid. Back on topic now: AR Variants needs to be reworked. -Breach Assault Rifle: As it stands right now, the Breach is going to have lower damage, lower ROF and shorter range than the Rail Rifle. This obviously needs a complete change. The Breach is already currently underpowered, but it's going to be totally obsolete whenever the Rail comes out. Even counting that it's going to receive a direct range buff (it's going to have the same range of the standard AR). Rework needed: Total -Burst Assault Rifle: Currently the Burst is not a good weapon. At all. But at least its damage is going to be very close to the Combat Rifle's, even though the ROF seems to be lower. The greatest difference is obviously the range. With these stats, the Combat Rifle is going to be an exact copy of the Burst AR (with a slight different ROF, I believe) with much better range. So yes, this is also asking for some love. Rework needed: Moderate -Tactical Assault Rifle: The Tac AR is currently a viable weapon, simply because it's the most ranged assault rifle out there..! It's obviously weaker than the Scrambler, but currently has slightly better range. However, this has been contested so much that NOT ONLY the Scrambler is going to get a massive range buff, but the Tac AR is going down from 60m to 55 optimal (ADV) and from 65 to 60m (PRO). But this is just part of the problem: Both the new Rifles are going to have better ranges even with their assault versions..! Basically, an Assault Combat Rifle will have better range than the Assault Tactical (which is blaster, but still a tactical rifle). Finished yet? No. The standard AR is going to get a range buff too, while the Tac AR's range gets nerfed; this means that the Tac AR is going to have only a 10 METERS advantage over the standard version! CCP... why? What's going on with this? Rework needed: Massive Can I summon a DEV? This is some important stuff and I'm confused about the lack of communication about the rework for these weapons, which were considered "placeholders" but they are no more. Also, the Assault Scrambler is a GOOD weapon and it came AFTER the Assault Rifle... so this idea of "placeholders" needs to die. We need these weapons to work properly. Thank you.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 171	Posted - 2013.10.26 06:23:00 - [2] - Quote Whilst I agree that, looking at the numbers, there seems to be problems with the new rifles compared to the current AR, I'd still wait for them to arrive and test them out. They may or may not be as powerful in game as they look on paper. There are many other factors that we can't see and compare in a table. Though, I do agree the Breach and Burst ARs need a looking at. They are, and will be, completely outperformed by every other rifle.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 33	Posted - 2013.10.26 06:25:00 - [3] - Quote I liked this and I didn't know about what you were mentioning , what they are about to do. Well YOU know that all the scrambler rifle users are GETTING what they wanted and YOU know their MAIN GOAL is to get rid of the assault rifles as well as the sniper rifles so that's no surprise. CCP DOESN'T CARE if their placating to these requests.
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 386	Posted - 2013.10.26 06:27:00 - [4] - Quote Actually I was expecting the informations you're requesting in the same thread CCP made about updated weapon stats. I appreciate CCP's work, but this should be an important part of the weapon rework. With these stats out, there are no more excuse for having such dumb AR versions. They do need a rebalance. +1 Time has come, CCP.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 445	Posted - 2013.10.26 13:03:00 - [5] - Quote Obvious solution: Remove breach and burst assault rifles, reimburse the isk to owners.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 432	Posted - 2013.10.26 14:07:00 - [6] - Quote Obvious solution #23: -Add some skills -Charge People for them, lets call it Rail Rifles and Combat Rifles -Give them the guns they were using before with slightly different ranges and Damage profiles -Wait for the QQ threads Rinse and Repeat with vehicles. Un-obvious solution: -Leave the AR's as they are -Bring the new weapons in after the Devs have tweaked them to be optimal -Balance them as they have all the other weapons Rinse and Repeat with vehicles. The Devs will put the new weapons in with ranges and damage profiles that need a bit of fixing. They rely on us to provide feedback on the content after it is provided, as well as new ideas before content is provided. Although you make some valid points about the Burst, Breach, and TAC rifles these weapons are still not what is typically a "blaster" type weapon and will most likely see some balancing after the other rifles are released. Considering that the Burst, Breach and TAC rifles are all seemingly under powered for what most people are intending them for (all ranges combat) it may be helpful to point out that the AR is supposed to be a mid to short range engagement weapon, and never intended for mid to long range. In addition to this there is still the issue that saw several months of QQ before devs decided it was time to change, the TAC AR has higher damage and range than the other AR variants. Attempting to exercise a small degree of patience and waiting for the release of a weapon will likely bring better results in this case I feel. We don't need the AR to need an even heftier nerf/buff before we can actually compare the weapons in usability and TTK. It is unreasonable to think that the paper DPS chart you are looking at is going to be the end result. Now that the devs have had practice releasing a new weapon or two into the game I am sure we will see better changes to the weapons on the newest addition than before.
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 1147	Posted - 2013.10.27 06:29:00 - [7] - Quote Sorry, but I'm tired of AR 514. The AR is supposed to be a short range effective weapon. Right now players are killing with it at 100 meters because it's still super accurate at range, and there's NOTHING that can counter it. Even laser rifles at their optimal have a hard time taking out AR users. With these new rifles, we might actually see a balance in the range issue, and these rifles won't be effective at CQC like the AR is...so it will still have it's place in the game. When I get killed by a scrambler rifle, I accept it and move on because it takes skill and is a balanced weapon. Getting killed by an AR in 0.2 seconds pisses me off though because it shouldn't be able to kill me that fast when I have over 900 ehp. Just wait for them to come out.
Cosgar ParagonX 6649	Posted - 2013.10.27 08:34:00 - [8] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Obvious solution: Remove breach and burst assault rifles, reimburse the isk to owners. ^Thread should've ended here.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1573	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:45:00 - [9] - Quote Cosgar wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Obvious solution: Remove breach and burst assault rifles, reimburse the isk to owners. ^Thread should've ended here. I have to agree. The burst and breach weren't variants, as the OP states they were placeholders for the Rail and Combat rifles. Get rid of them. The single shot of the TAR is certainly still viable. AR variants have to change in focus. Instead of altering RoF, fire type and range, emphasis should be placed on other aspects of the weapon. CCP have it right with an assault variant of weapons which have the iron sight. Through in variants with higher initial charge times for faster RoF for the RR, variants with longer bursts but smaller clips/max. ammo for the CR, and in addition to the tactical variant of the current AR, variants which have even shorter range for more damage; this is what plasma weapons are meant to be anyway. But give the HMG a little love before you do. God knows they need it when I can handle an MH-83 with my Exile.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 323	Posted - 2013.10.29 16:34:00 - [10] - Quote Hey Keri, found this while lurking around the forums CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Ishukone haved worked closely with the Minmatar in the past. Before his death, Otro Gariushi gave Maleatu Shakor Insorum, the antidote for Vitoc for FREE. When it could've been worth trillions. Seems only fitting that Ishukone would manufacture the occasional Minmatar weapon don't you think? Unrelated, but you once said this, basically each race's rifle will have variants to mimic the others. Is that still planned? right now the AR has all variants, but the scrambler rifle and the new upcoming rifles seem to only have assault variants. The base rail rifle is a "breach", slow firing automatic. Also gets an assault variant. So rail rifle is missing tactical, and burst. The base combat rifle is an "burst", fires in 3 round bursts. Also gets an assault variant. So rail rifle is missing tactical, and breach. The base scrambler rifle is a "tactical", fires single fire long range. Also gets an assault variant. So rail rifle is missing burst, and breach. The base assault rifle is a "assault", fires in fast automatic fire. Also gets a breach variant. Also gets a burst variant. Also gets a tactical variant. So assault rifle is missing NOTHING, and gets EVERYTHING. You're a hard to find dev on the forums, so I just had to ask despite how unrelated it is. They're still planned. They won't be coming in the same release as the rail rifle and combat rifle though. Maybe you'll get to play with a Tactical Combat Rifle or Rail Rifle some time in the future! For now, Im sure that you'll make the Tactical AR work regardless of what is done with it. You're definitely the best (Post Nerf) Tac user i've seen in Dust :D

Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 952	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:36:00 - [11] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: For now, Im sure that you'll make the Tactical AR work regardless of what is done with it. You're definitely the best (Post Nerf) Tac user i've seen in Dust :D Happiness overload lol thank you! -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 324	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:50:00 - [12] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: For now, Im sure that you'll make the Tactical AR work regardless of what is done with it. You're definitely the best (Post Nerf) Tac user i've seen in Dust :D Happiness overload lol thank you! Maybe i should post that awesome domination game we ran duo on. 43/8 for me ad 33/0 for you against a full squad on the other side with random blueberries on ours lol We each got an OB :D but only i got to use it so 48/8 doesnt mean anything hahaha 33/0 with the TAR on the other hand O_o thats skill right here
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 954	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:12:00 - [13] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: For now, Im sure that you'll make the Tactical AR work regardless of what is done with it. You're definitely the best (Post Nerf) Tac user i've seen in Dust :D Happiness overload lol thank you! Maybe i should post that awesome domination game we ran duo on. 43/8 for me ad 33/0 for you against a full squad on the other side with random blueberries on ours lol We each got an OB :D but only i got to use it so 48/8 doesnt mean anything hahaha 33/0 with the TAR on the other hand O_o thats skill right here -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 326	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:15:00 - [14] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: For now, Im sure that you'll make the Tactical AR work regardless of what is done with it. You're definitely the best (Post Nerf) Tac user i've seen in Dust :D Happiness overload lol thank you! Maybe i should post that awesome domination game we ran duo on. 43/8 for me ad 33/0 for you against a full squad on the other side with random blueberries on ours lol We each got an OB :D but only i got to use it so 48/8 doesnt mean anything hahaha 33/0 with the TAR on the other hand O_o thats skill right here Lol you should he proud! Doubt anyone can top that running a TAR going against a full squad of competent players. We were losing to begin with too! But then we beat them in MCC and clones! One of my best games in Dust :)
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 954	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:18:00 - [15] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Lol you should he proud! Doubt anyone can top that running a TAR going against a full squad of competent players. We were losing to begin with too! But then we beat them in MCC and clones! One of my best games in Dust :) I don't know how to thank you for your words, so I'm just blushing lol -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 327	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:20:00 - [16] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Lol you should he proud! Doubt anyone can top that running a TAR going against a full squad of competent players. We were losing to begin with too! But then we beat them in MCC and clones! One of my best games in Dust :) I don't know how to thank you for your words, so I'm just blushing lol ;)


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