DUST Search - Balancing Cloaking devices

Zeylon Rho wrote:

Godin Thekiller wrote:

Zeylon Rho wrote:

It's also "high" slot in EVE (like a weapon). If it were actually equivalent...

A cloak would require a Light Weapon slot, it would significantly slow a player while in operation (or restrict them to lower speeds), would blunt sensor usage, and would have a 30s delay on reactivation/sensors coming back.

In that sense, it would make an interesting weapon for commandos, who'd still have a usable weapon in the other slot. Scouts might see "less" of a sensor or speed hit because they start with more, but any killing they planned on while cloaked would probably require them getting eyes on a target and closing in with a pistol since the enemies wouldn't be on scanners.

Of course, on some maps a scout could cloak into the city proper, hack a Supply depot, and walk out with a heavy suit.

There's a lot of things that aren't hi slots that is EVE side.

Perhaps, but making a cloak take a light weapon slot would be a great balancing measure, and it would give Commandos (who by name you'd think would be a bit on the special-ops side) more of a point.

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Magpie Raven ZionTCD Public Disorder. 261	Posted - 2013.10.26 02:55:00 - [1] - Quote Cloaking has the potential to be a really cool and tactical thing. But it can easily be OP and be abused. The trick is. How to make it effective without giving a cloaked person too much of an advantage but keep it interesting and worthwhile. Here are the obvious ways to balance it: Deactivates when firing, taking damage, sprinting, etc. Make it PG/CPU expensive limit it to scout suits only. Cooldown timers Those all work but they are obvious, uninspired, and kinda boring. In my opinion I thought of a way to do it that would be kinda simple but have balancing effects tha Idea: Make it a piece of equipment. (already mentioned by CCP) ------ Must be manually activated taking say 4 seconds to become active. Afterwards player can switch back to a weapon. At a distance, cloaked payer is nearly invisible, at closer distances cloaked player is easier to spot but still difficult The obvious stuff. ------ Must deactivate when firing weapon and when taking damage. ------ When sprinting, cloaking effect is disrupted and makes the user more noticable. While cloaked, player is still able to be scanned. Cloak only effects physical appearance. Cloak is not run on a timer. and has no cooldown. Instead, when activated it drains stamina. When stamina is gone, cloak is gone Hear me out.
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Public Disorder. 261	Posted - 2013.10.26 03:20:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved
Aviles Novashift 4	Posted - 2013.10.26 03:57:00 - [3] - Quote I cant agree with the stamina usage. But I think your on a good track. I think Killzone did it best. Anything would deactivate your stealth aside from walking or staying still. As for my main point, putting a limit to how long u can go stealth is a good idea but I would see ALLOT of complaints on how long that timer is or what it feeds off of. I think running the stealth threw stamina would also be against the already set standard of what things are run by. I would like to see some of this. -Limited amount of uses per drop suit deployment. -Anything deactivates it aside from walking/crouching/standing this includes hacking. -NO damage bonus from cloaking (some games do this) -A slight sheen or distortion of space (people can see you if there paying attention) -Skill: prevents scanning while cloak is active (expensive)
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2013.10.26 04:08:00 - [4] - Quote I would have a lot of fun with this on a heavy build. I would put in a cardiac regulator or 2 and would be rather funny to use this some stamina mods and a forge gun especially up close. Or a logi suit with tons of RE so you can place them and then cloak and place multiple re's cloaked and wait some place nearby but hard to see and blow up many people then cloak and run out. Funniest would be adapting this for use on a heavy and forge gunning people from up nice and close.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 534	Posted - 2013.10.26 09:03:00 - [5] - Quote Dev mentioned long time ago the plan was o have it not effect passive or active scans. So a high signature could make a red chevron pop up over cloaked player. They also mentioned it would not be scout limited, even hav will hav some option to cloak. probably limited and gimps the tank and scout will be best at cloaking still. Passive scanning making chevon appear may by itself be enough to make a heavy cloak user a bad loadout to use. We may get some varients of cloaks with defrent weakness. In eve, the bad cloak is usable by everyone but the nice cloak is limited to stealth specialist ships. (covert ops, force recon cruiser, blockade runner, and stealth bomber)
Alam Storm Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire 14	Posted - 2013.10.26 11:40:00 - [6] - Quote if you think this is good may i add 1 more idea to this the cloaked person whows up on mini map if you got your sights on them that way you havent got someone with a shotgun hiding behind the corner waiting to get the drop on you and have it so scanners can detect them
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 344	Posted - 2013.10.26 12:23:00 - [7] - Quote Stamina draining cloak doesn't make sense, you can balance cloaked with a few easy circumstances Cloak Balance Option A 1) Cloaks blind you to environment and other people (you can't see the environment because the same light spectrem that you are denying others is also denied to you since these waves are going around you, so a black or extremely dim screen for this effect) You can however still see hostiles on your mini map if you are able to passively detect them. (scouts have better passive scanning abilities) 2) When Cloaked your walking speed is as if crouching (scouts go with walking speed) 3) Can be cloaked indefinitely but you aren't going to be doing a lot if you can't see anything and walking like a snail, and chances of being scanned are high. Cloak Balance Option B 1) Make the Cloak Directional (like this) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlkAVKsEj80&feature=youtu.be 2) Make it immobilize you and make it a channel ability, this turns the cloak from a trolling offensive piece to a defensive leaning equipment, because if the enemies see you when you cloak they know where you are. But it can be used in anticipation of an forward enemy to get the jump on them. 3) Can be channeled forever and without cooldowns
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 98	Posted - 2013.10.26 16:51:00 - [8] - Quote Aviles wrote: I cant agree with the stamina usage. But I think your on a good track. I think Killzone did it best. Anything would deactivate your stealth aside from walking or staying still. As for my main point, putting a limit to how long u can go stealth is a good idea but I would see ALLOT of complaints on how long that timer is or what it feeds off of. I think running the stealth threw stamina would also be against the already set standard of what things are run by. I would like to see some of this. -Limited amount of uses per drop suit deployment. -Anything deactivates it aside from walking/crouching/standing this includes hacking. -NO damage bonus from cloaking (some games do this) -A slight sheen or distortion of space (people can see you if there paying attention) -Skill: prevents scanning while cloak is active (expensive) Or wat about the cloak increases your scan profile because of its energy consumption and the cloaking skill reduces the penalty by 20% per lvl. If u get lvl 5, your penalty is gone.
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 98	Posted - 2013.10.26 16:52:00 - [9] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: I would have a lot of fun with this on a heavy build. I would put in a cardiac regulator or 2 and would be rather funny to use this some stamina mods and a forge gun especially up close. Or a logi suit with tons of RE so you can place them and then cloak and place multiple re's cloaked and wait some place nearby but hard to see and blow up many people then cloak and run out. Funniest would be adapting this for use on a heavy and forge gunning people from up nice and close. How? Heavies dont have equip slotz
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 109	Posted - 2013.10.26 18:47:00 - [10] - Quote How about this Limited use can only carry 1 std 2 adv 3 proto All last 35 seconds 4 second activation time Pg/cpu effects visibility, say a decked out logi would have max 50% efficiency but a scout could get full usage Sprinting +15% visibility moving , walking would be scaled 0%- 10% depending on speed Each shot makes you +35% visibility for 3 seconds novaknives only do +15% Refillable at depot

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2849	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote It's also "high" slot in EVE (like a weapon). If it were actually equivalent... A cloak would require a Light Weapon slot, it would significantly slow a player while in operation (or restrict them to lower speeds), would blunt sensor usage, and would have a 30s delay on reactivation/sensors coming back. In that sense, it would make an interesting weapon for commandos, who'd still have a usable weapon in the other slot. Scouts might see "less" of a sensor or speed hit because they start with more, but any killing they planned on while cloaked would probably require them getting eyes on a target and closing in with a pistol since the enemies wouldn't be on scanners. Of course, on some maps a scout could cloak into the city proper, hack a Supply depot, and walk out with a heavy suit.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1284	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:25:00 - [12] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: It's also "high" slot in EVE (like a weapon). If it were actually equivalent... A cloak would require a Light Weapon slot, it would significantly slow a player while in operation (or restrict them to lower speeds), would blunt sensor usage, and would have a 30s delay on reactivation/sensors coming back. In that sense, it would make an interesting weapon for commandos, who'd still have a usable weapon in the other slot. Scouts might see "less" of a sensor or speed hit because they start with more, but any killing they planned on while cloaked would probably require them getting eyes on a target and closing in with a pistol since the enemies wouldn't be on scanners. Of course, on some maps a scout could cloak into the city proper, hack a Supply depot, and walk out with a heavy suit. There's a lot of things that aren't hi slots that is EVE side.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2849	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:52:00 - [13] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: It's also "high" slot in EVE (like a weapon). If it were actually equivalent... A cloak would require a Light Weapon slot, it would significantly slow a player while in operation (or restrict them to lower speeds), would blunt sensor usage, and would have a 30s delay on reactivation/sensors coming back. In that sense, it would make an interesting weapon for commandos, who'd still have a usable weapon in the other slot. Scouts might see "less" of a sensor or speed hit because they start with more, but any killing they planned on while cloaked would probably require them getting eyes on a target and closing in with a pistol since the enemies wouldn't be on scanners. Of course, on some maps a scout could cloak into the city proper, hack a Supply depot, and walk out with a heavy suit. There's a lot of things that aren't hi slots that is EVE side. Perhaps, but making a cloak take a light weapon slot would be a great balancing measure, and it would give Commandos (who by name you'd think would be a bit on the special-ops side) more of a point.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 345	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:33:00 - [14] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: It's also "high" slot in EVE (like a weapon). If it were actually equivalent... A cloak would require a Light Weapon slot, it would significantly slow a player while in operation (or restrict them to lower speeds), would blunt sensor usage, and would have a 30s delay on reactivation/sensors coming back. In that sense, it would make an interesting weapon for commandos, who'd still have a usable weapon in the other slot. Scouts might see "less" of a sensor or speed hit because they start with more, but any killing they planned on while cloaked would probably require them getting eyes on a target and closing in with a pistol since the enemies wouldn't be on scanners. Of course, on some maps a scout could cloak into the city proper, hack a Supply depot, and walk out with a heavy suit. There's a lot of things that aren't hi slots that is EVE side. Perhaps, but making a cloak take a light weapon slot would be a great balancing measure, and it would give Commandos (who by name you'd think would be a bit on the special-ops side) more of a point. this one isn't a bad idea as well, it would be in favor of commandos and scouts as medium frames wouldn't normally opt to give up their light. in short I also agree with this mechanic. Though I can't image that 75% of the player base agreeing with it since it wouldn't benefit them any.
CR0NIC0S Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.12.04 10:14:00 - [15] - Quote I was thinking in order to keep the game fair it would be a good idea to add a strong shielding penalty to this type of module. I think most people will use it in combination with blades, shotguns, sniper, or anti-armor weapons since it would require a swift kill in order to use it effectively without dying before u can make the kill. Also it might be usefull to make sure it can only be used in combination with certain weapons, for example if a sniper would use it, he/she would almost be invincible so it might be smart to make that impossible or add a big damage or accuracy penalty for snipers to it. Offcourse it cannot be immune for target scanners, just a visual complete invisibility thing (not a see through shape) and not being able to be seen on the map or when aimed at without a target scanner. This would force people to stay together since if you are alone you are easy prey but together is a suicide kill for the cloaked attacker. It would be a real rush stalking people to make the kill, knowing that if they discover you, you most certainly will be killed or have to make a run for it.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 371	Posted - 2013.12.04 18:09:00 - [16] - Quote I've imagined cloaks to work like in EvE (with a little additions to fit infantry): -Equipment: no/long duration, short timer -Unscannable -Decloaked if anything other than landscape is with in 5-10m (friendly/enemy player, objective, installation, equipment, etc) -Massive penalty to speed (Scout gets reduced penalty) -Action delay after decloak (can move, but no shoot, etc for a second or two) Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 86	Posted - 2013.12.04 18:19:00 - [17] - Quote The problem with cloaking and invisibility things in every game theyve been introduced into is that the players train to spot them over time. Once people learn how to spot a cloaked player and do this automaticly, it drops the effectiveness of the module. The stamina isnt a bad idea but it isnt a good one either. I recommend just having a timer based on the level of the module before a cooldown initiates. Due to scouts needing their stamina to stay alive. Trust me when I say having more stamina does nothing if you have to run across open terrain, let alone walk. Dedicated scout. Player bodyguard Pistol supremacy.


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