DUST Search - Everyone complains about pubstomping...

HyperionsThunder wrote:

So maybe we should spitball some ideas to try and alleviate the issue. I mean, people shouldn't be penalized for earning their gear, and working in a team, but...if you are a new player, and you get pubstomped even just 2 or 3 times, you'll probably quit (that being said, I'm sure a squad from a good corp will run train no matter what gear is used, but it's nicer to see that you are dying to a militia fitting because you suck, than a proto suit because you suck). This hurts the player base in the long run, and eventually we'll have (well honestly we already do) a very very niche game, occupied by people already at the +10 million SP mark.

So...I think the problem could be fixed by extending the Dust academy to allow blueberries to earn more SP and build a fitting that is more useful.

Or (and I think I like this more) split the matchmaking up a little bit more, so that players can choose the level of security space they play in in pub matches. For example, new players could choose higher security space which has some limitation on the type of suits that can be used (maybe just militia and STD), and vets can play in lower security space, where any gear is allowed. Incentivize the two appropriately, and allow players to go back and forth. That way, people could still play against protostompers, but their incentives are a little higher, and they can't blame anyone but themselves for accepting a contract against pros.

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HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 82	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:16:00 - [1] - Quote So maybe we should spitball some ideas to try and alleviate the issue. I mean, people shouldn't be penalized for earning their gear, and working in a team, but...if you are a new player, and you get pubstomped even just 2 or 3 times, you'll probably quit (that being said, I'm sure a squad from a good corp will run train no matter what gear is used, but it's nicer to see that you are dying to a militia fitting because you suck, than a proto suit because you suck). This hurts the player base in the long run, and eventually we'll have (well honestly we already do) a very very niche game, occupied by people already at the +10 million SP mark. So...I think the problem could be fixed by extending the Dust academy to allow blueberries to earn more SP and build a fitting that is more useful. Or (and I think I like this more) split the matchmaking up a little bit more, so that players can choose the level of security space they play in in pub matches. For example, new players could choose higher security space which has some limitation on the type of suits that can be used (maybe just militia and STD), and vets can play in lower security space, where any gear is allowed. Incentivize the two appropriately, and allow players to go back and forth. That way, people could still play against protostompers, but their incentives are a little higher, and they can't blame anyone but themselves for accepting a contract against pros.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 653	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:18:00 - [2] - Quote People should try to stop being so poor and use proto gear themselves, i heard it's great
J'Hiera Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:19:00 - [3] - Quote Limiting gear level to security systems could be a nice solution, and I'd support that. Despite that in the end, gear don't win the game. Teamwork and skills do.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation The Ascendancy 651	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:23:00 - [4] - Quote nice post. We all want new players and the game to grow. What interests me the most is PC
Jade Dragonis GRIM MARCH 234	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:28:00 - [5] - Quote I like the idea. I thought that maybe the low sec and null sec versions should be locked to newbros and only unlocked when they hit a certain amount of sp. But this is New Eden. So don't lock them to newbros but have a warning system like Eve does. So they are notified that they are entering low sec and to oroceed at thier own risk. Thus if they get stomped well they where warned.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 751	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:30:00 - [6] - Quote ff in fw will alleviate the problem. all the nade-spamming md-noobs will have to aim their guns again...
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 83	Posted - 2013.10.25 17:47:00 - [7] - Quote Jade Dragonis wrote: I like the idea. I thought that maybe the low sec and null sec versions should be locked to newbros and only unlocked when they hit a certain amount of sp. But this is New Eden. So don't lock them to newbros but have a warning system like Eve does. So they are notified that they are entering low sec and to oroceed at thier own risk. Thus if they get stomped well they where warned. Yeah, I think vets should also be able to go into less dangerous territory (maybe they really suck with a certain weapon or class and want to learn - you CAN teach old dogs new tricks), and their advantage over newberries will be their skills in more general skills. They just won't be blowing up entire teams with core locus grenades.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 161	Posted - 2013.10.25 17:54:00 - [8] - Quote Why? Doesn't seem like CCP listens to customer feedback anyway. They also suck at communicating information to their customers in a timely manner.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 551	Posted - 2013.10.25 17:56:00 - [9] - Quote low genius wrote: ff in fw will alleviate the problem. all the nade-spamming md-noobs will have to aim their guns again... Calling MD users noobs? Let me guess, you run an AR or ASR?
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 273	Posted - 2013.10.25 17:58:00 - [10] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: People should try to stop being so poor and use proto gear themselves, i heard it's great I just made a post on this... You'd be surprised if you read it that there are more problems to this "stop being so poor" train of thought that has gotten you so far.

howard sanchez expert intervention Caldari State 802	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:08:00 - [11] - Quote A lot of DUST's problems right now with issues like pub stomping, matchmaking and gear/skill balance are greatly impacted by population We just don't have enough players online to make these systems work as intended. If and when dust has an active player base anywhere close to the numbers CCP planned for we Might have a very different experience then we do now. So, instead of discussing changes to match making systems, or rebalancing gear or even further isolating segments of our limited population by segregating players...I would propose that we explore ideas CCP could use to get more people playing Dust. I will be the first to agree that the game is In Such rough shape that the whole D. Reid, AAA marketing machine approach is not warranted. But there must be some level of effort they could use to boost new downloads and eyes on the game It's clear that CCP knows this too. See all the focus on NPE and new player retention. Is there anything we can do (besides promoting guild membership which helps a lot) to gain and retain a healthy player base?
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 187	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:11:00 - [12] - Quote 1. fix the game (this would include fulfilling any of the things that were stated in 2012 fan fest that would be implemented by 2014) 2. remarket it so the player count is about 100X what it is currently 3. then worry about segregating the community Your'e all chasing your tail on this issue. Look at it this way about 20% of the proposed content has been delivered in this game. It is only natural for people to want to play with the fraction that is currently offered, anything to inhibit people from using it or to segregate people will not work, the playerbase is just not large enough currently. All this will currently do is kill the game for anyone not playing in primetime NA times as they spend 15 minutes waiting for their perfectly matched ambush game. These are valid issues that could be addressed if the game were anywhere near completion and had a large playerbase. As it stands there is less and less of anyone playing this game vet or noobs, holding back the vets to hold hands for the noobs will only drive them away as well. Why would a player who has played this for 18 months invested a boat load of $ over that time not want to use the best gear they have? It's one of the few things that actually have been delivered on. Look at it this way DUST 514 is like a one room school house, the fifth graders can't complain if they want to play football with 10th graders because there simply are not enough of them to form two separate games.
Justice Prevails Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:12:00 - [13] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: Limiting gear level to security systems could be a nice solution, and I'd support that. Despite that in the end, gear don't win the game. Teamwork and skills do. Its the organization and tactics of the squads that really lead to the stomping. You can take on a protobear with starter fit 1 on 1 using tactics(it would be a long fight with a lot dodging, but its possible). But if even you're in proto, you won't last long against 2 or more guys using tactics. Even if they have starter fits. I lonewolf it a lot, so I may not be the best one to say it, but this is a team based game and stomping might ccp's way of saying "squad up" or "join a corp". Now if our starter fit squad runs up against a squad of equally skilled protos: Well, we are just ******!:-)
8213 Grade No.2 502	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:29:00 - [14] - Quote I don't think you can divide players by SP, because you can still have 3 million SP, but still use AURUM to buy all Proto gear. You can't separate time played in game as well, because of the making of alts and using AURUM gear yet again. The only way I can see separating the bad players from better players is simply to limit what can be used in certain matches. Have Starter matches, Standard gear only matches... or separate the lobbies by overall Meta level. Eventually you'll have players that have more actual skill than others, but at least you take away the overkill edge by limiting the gear they use. Also, make the tutorials tested, so the players are forced to pay attention to them. Many new players see this game as an FPS that you just jump into and start shooting... its not.
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1284	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:33:00 - [15] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: Limiting gear level to security systems could be a nice solution, and I'd support that. Despite that in the end, gear don't win the game. Teamwork and skills do. Looks at Standard Gallente Med Frame with 600 HP Looks At Proto Gallente Logi with 1200 HP Right......... If you say so.
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1284	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:45:00 - [16] - Quote Squad-less Mode. Simple, it just prevents Squads from going into that game mode, and that should solve the major Pubstomps. People are ten times less likely to yonk out their 100K ISK fit, if they are just relying on a blueberry logi to rep them. This could also be beneficial to Tankers too, due to less proto-fits, means less Proto Swarms, which means INCREDIBLE improved Survivablity.
Foo Fighting the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 16	Posted - 2013.10.25 18:48:00 - [17] - Quote New game modes would help - squad only and solo only. Solo only modes would allow matchmaking to function beter regardless of the chosen segregation method. I just can't see matchmaking ever working with squads as a squad can have players from all categories of skill / ability. Squad only mode would not need matchmaking so much.
HYENAKILLER X Da Short Buss 314	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:40:00 - [18] - Quote I gripe about pubstomps a lot. Salution:get proto gear.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 191	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:47:00 - [19] - Quote Not enough people to split up matches in my opinion. And maxed passives still equal protostomp vs new players. I don't know what the answer is other than get Proto. I've got some Proto stuff, but I never run it because A. I don't have my Proto suit yet, so fitting is a *****, and B. I wanna make sure I can protect my investments, Proto is expensive, so I want my passives up as much as possible.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 177	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:54:00 - [20] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Squad-less Mode. Simple, it just prevents Squads from going into that game mode, and that should solve the major Pubstomps. BINGO. Make Pub matches squad-free; FW is a mix of solo/squad and PC is squad-only. Change pub matches and everyone has a mode that suits their preferred style.

Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 191	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:57:00 - [21] - Quote Seems you would see nothing but assault logis and assaults in said mode. I'm not saying no to it, just kinda seems like a waste of time when CCP needs to put in some serious work to get the team based stuff where it needs to be.
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 326	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:00:00 - [22] - Quote I have brought this up about 30 times but it bears repeating. have 3 types of public contracts. Beginner militia/std gear only low payout intermediate adv and below gear medium payout advanced proto and below only high payout this way if you want to go for the big payout and don't have any proto gear you know what you are getting into.
Buddha Brown Factory Fresh 411	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:03:00 - [23] - Quote all the newberries should be forced into squads at the start of all academy matches, maybe they'll take to the game a little better in packs
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 67	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:03:00 - [24] - Quote Great ideas here!
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 192	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:04:00 - [25] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Squad-less Mode. Simple, it just prevents Squads from going into that game mode, and that should solve the major Pubstomps. BINGO. Make Pub matches squad-free; FW is a mix of solo/squad and PC is squad-only. Change pub matches and everyone has a mode that suits their preferred style. Really, come on that is the solution? How many people do you think play console fps game to play with there friends? Hmm pretty much everyone. So you want this to be the one game that makes that even harder and think that will fix this game? Come on you people need to pull your head out of your ass and realize this isn't BF4 and it does not have the luxury to slice and dice the players to suit you, there are simply not enough of them. Sure you can look at the daily player counts on eve -offline and say its been the same since last june, but how many are logging on just to get the daily bonus? The amount that are actually getting in a game and shooting a gun is diminishing every day. Keep going this route and watch the asia and EU players drop out like flies when they can't que for a game because scotty doesn't ever have enough variable to make the calculation work correctly.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1220	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:04:00 - [26] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: Limiting gear level to security systems could be a nice solution, and I'd support that. Despite that in the end, gear don't win the game. Teamwork and skills do. You are fooling yourself if you think some n00b with 506k SP stands a chance against anyone in a proto suit with a Duvolle + Damage Mods with all his core skills and Module skills maxed out. Seriously, does anyone even still buy this crap? 2 MLT n00bs < 2 Proto Vets 16 MLT n00bs < 16 Proto Vets 3 Squads MLT n00bs < 3 Squads Proto Vets Gear makes a big difference, gear + SP makes a HUGE difference. Anyone who says otherwise, needs a crutch to stand on.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1220	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:06:00 - [27] - Quote Buddha Brown wrote: all the newberries should be forced into squads at the start of all academy matches, maybe they'll take to the game a little better in packs With voice automatically ON with PTT OFF.
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1288	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:23:00 - [28] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Not enough people to split up matches in my opinion. And maxed passives still equal protostomp vs new players. I don't know what the answer is other than get Proto. I've got some Proto stuff, but I never run it because A. I don't have my Proto suit yet, so fitting is a *****, and B. I wanna make sure I can protect my investments, Proto is expensive, so I want my passives up as much as possible. Not enough people to fix pubstomping No new players due to pubstomping Paradoxical, don't you think?
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 193	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:28:00 - [29] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: Not enough people to split up matches in my opinion. And maxed passives still equal protostomp vs new players. I don't know what the answer is other than get Proto. I've got some Proto stuff, but I never run it because A. I don't have my Proto suit yet, so fitting is a *****, and B. I wanna make sure I can protect my investments, Proto is expensive, so I want my passives up as much as possible. Not enough people to fix pubstomping No new players due to pubstomping Paradoxical, don't you think? Totally agree 100% but the fault and answer lies at CCP's feet not at the playerbase. They have not delivered enough content to keep people involved in the game as they progress yet the little they have provided is a detriment to the new players. Damned if you do damned if you don't. But if the game were half as good as anything Andy Reid has said at any game conference since 2011 there would be enough of both types of players that it wouldn't be an issue to implement your ideas.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 926	Posted - 2013.10.25 21:44:00 - [30] - Quote Those people whining about it will be doing it in about 2 months, its cyclic.

Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 180	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:10:00 - [31] - Quote We need mo money making abilities! Then I could afford to run my best gear!
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 754	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:28:00 - [32] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: low genius wrote: ff in fw will alleviate the problem. all the nade-spamming md-noobs will have to aim their guns again... Calling MD users noobs? Let me guess, you run an AR or ASR? lr. using a md doesn't make you a noob, but spamming it at your feet around your squad does.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 193	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:29:00 - [33] - Quote I sometimes wonder what would really happen if CCP put in everything they were suppose to. The player base would grow, but I think there are a large amount of people who, for some reason, don't like Dust but don't yet realize it. For example, when I play CoD (just an example, not bashing CoD peeps), yeah, it's alright for a minute or two, but it's just not for me. No amount of other stuff thrown into it would make me want to play it any more than what I currently do, which is none. If you are waiting on the true Dust/Eve connection, fine. But if you are asking for stuff that really isn't even on the drawing board, you may have the wrong game.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 194	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:41:00 - [34] - Quote Lol drawing board, have you even heard half the crap CCP has been saying Mechs Fighter Jets Total weapon customization Variety of specialization in game (not AR514) Impact on eve and nulsec player market 1000's of unique maps This is just scratching the surface we could make a list three times as long of content that is supposed to be here compared to what is here Come on CCP are the ones who set the bar this high we were just dumb enough to believe them
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 193	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:47:00 - [35] - Quote Now throw all that in. Core mechanics still stay the same. People cry they have to work to long and hard to be competitive, cry because they are not effective unless in a squad/corp, and cry because the game is difficult without a mic, or cannot find a decent corp because of their lack of mic. Survey says: people have the wrong game.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 193	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:51:00 - [36] - Quote And AR514 becomes an even more hilarious statement by the seconds as SRs continue to dominate. I've got no problem with that, i'm really liking weapon balance for the most part atm. It's funny that in a war game people are mad because there is to many straight up infantry players. Just take them out completely then, give everyone a mass driver. Or, again, maybe the players choice of games is the flaw......
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1014	Posted - 2013.10.25 22:59:00 - [37] - Quote a gear restriction based on sec level is a really good idea... however, with such a small player base the chances of people having long waits for matches are to great. teamwork, squading up is what really works in the end... while gear does give an advantage it isn't the root of the problem... newberries need more time in their own matches against each other for one. more people need to play to make matchmaking more efficient. and everyone needs to mic up and squad up to really take advantage of the mechanics of this game. I solo a lot my self but Im also not surprised when my team full of one man teams loses...
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 89	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:08:00 - [38] - Quote I totally agree that with such a small player base of actually playing people (and not just people waiting to see if CCP delivers more content, or people jumping on for the SP bonus), it would crappy to split the population up even more. However, I think if the incentive scheme is right, most players will continue to play in lowsec or nullsec matches, and newer players can learn and earn in highsec. I think this would be a better alternative to increasing the length of the academy, only because this is New Eden, and if people want to get stomped, we should let them - but we should also make sure they have a choice to not get stomped. Even if this was just in the short run, I think the player base can only shrink unless something gets tweaked. Vets are jumping ship, and new players are facing off against people with significantly more experience and better gear - which alienates them and they quit.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1177	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:19:00 - [39] - Quote low genius wrote: ff in fw will alleviate the problem. all the nade-spamming md-noobs will have to aim their guns again... You do have to admit it'd be way too easy to abuse it to 'grief' when the new FW mechanics are out. * Throw grenade * Some turd flinger just stands on it just to be that guy. I mean, there are already people who will intentionally stand in front of you while you use your MD and FG.
General John Ripper MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 3906	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:19:00 - [40] - Quote please don't

HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 89	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:25:00 - [41] - Quote Lol Ripper, are you just going into every post and saying "please don't?"
General John Ripper MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 3910	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:39:00 - [42] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: Lol Ripper, are you just going into every post and saying "please don't?" please don't
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 89	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:40:00 - [43] - Quote I'm going to report you to Molden Heath Internal Affairs!
General John Ripper MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 3910	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:42:00 - [44] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: I'm going to report you to Molden Heath Internal Affairs! please don't
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2089	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:43:00 - [45] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: So maybe we should spitball some ideas to try and alleviate the issue. I mean, people shouldn't be penalized for earning their gear, and working in a team, but...if you are a new player, and you get pubstomped even just 2 or 3 times, you'll probably quit (that being said, I'm sure a squad from a good corp will run train no matter what gear is used, but it's nicer to see that you are dying to a militia fitting because you suck, than a proto suit because you suck). This hurts the player base in the long run, and eventually we'll have (well honestly we already do) a very very niche game, occupied by people already at the +10 million SP mark. So...I think the problem could be fixed by extending the Dust academy to allow blueberries to earn more SP and build a fitting that is more useful. Or (and I think I like this more) split the matchmaking up a little bit more, so that players can choose the level of security space they play in in pub matches. For example, new players could choose higher security space which has some limitation on the type of suits that can be used (maybe just militia and STD), and vets can play in lower security space, where any gear is allowed. Incentivize the two appropriately, and allow players to go back and forth. That way, people could still play against protostompers, but their incentives are a little higher, and they can't blame anyone but themselves for accepting a contract against pros. We need a Game mode with no squad capabilities. Or proto gear limitations...
Rinzler XVII Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 197	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:28:00 - [46] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: So maybe we should spitball some ideas to try and alleviate the issue. I mean, people shouldn't be penalized for earning their gear, and working in a team, but...if you are a new player, and you get pubstomped even just 2 or 3 times, you'll probably quit (that being said, I'm sure a squad from a good corp will run train no matter what gear is used, but it's nicer to see that you are dying to a militia fitting because you suck, than a proto suit because you suck). This hurts the player base in the long run, and eventually we'll have (well honestly we already do) a very very niche game, occupied by people already at the +10 million SP mark. So...I think the problem could be fixed by extending the Dust academy to allow blueberries to earn more SP and build a fitting that is more useful. Or (and I think I like this more) split the matchmaking up a little bit more, so that players can choose the level of security space they play in in pub matches. For example, new players could choose higher security space which has some limitation on the type of suits that can be used (maybe just militia and STD), and vets can play in lower security space, where any gear is allowed. Incentivize the two appropriately, and allow players to go back and forth. That way, people could still play against protostompers, but their incentives are a little higher, and they can't blame anyone but themselves for accepting a contract against pros. Go look at feedback and suggestions over the past 6 months .. countless ideas to fix the issue all completely ignored .. waste of time
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles 4922	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:29:00 - [47] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: Lol Ripper, are you just going into every post and saying "please don't?" Please don't


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