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Gh0st C0de
Spirit Collective
80
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 02:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have observed that a great many people have realized that the scout suit is underpowered. The speed boost we scouts receive can be reached with minimal SP investment by an assault. Even were that not the case, that minor sprint boost does not make up for the crippling loss of EHP and the very slim Pg/CPU margin we have to work with.
I will not rehash at length the many excellent ideas that have been bandied about for making scouts more substantial, but I do have an additional suggestion that may be workable.
Earlier, in another thread, I had suggested the implementation of two "scouting slots" on all scout suits, all levels and types of scout suits would have these two slots. These slots would be designated for certain equipment only useable by scouts. To further this concept I feel it would be best to make injectors and repair tools for logistics use only. Links, Hives, Remote Explosives and Scanners would remain universally useable. Though it may also make sense to make the scanner scout only.
The nature of these role-defining equipments would be to fundamentally alter the abilities of the scout in question. Rather than finite devices such as a hive they would allow new functions to be used indefinitely, such as the case with the active scanner.
In my opinion, a silencer would be the quintessential example of this concept. It need not be applied to weapons directly, as Dust weapons need not operate within the bounds of current weapon technology. The equipment could present itself as a small piece of hardware that is installed in a weapon (thus not requiring new weapon models). This could replace the standard firing sound with a small hiss that can only be heard by players within ten yards or so. So, firing a pistol directly behind someone would be audible as a hiss, but shooting them from over ten yards away would not. Essential to the functionality of this silencer would be the function of eliminating the red arrows that show the direction of the shots origin if people are outside of audible range. As such, a scout could shoot at enemies with no hint as to his or her position.
A cloaking device would fit in this category nicely, something that could cloak the scout while not firing, or for a certain duration with a subsequent short cool down. If cloaking could cause one to disappear from enemy radar then it could be combined with a silencer to devastating effect, truly making the silent infiltrator or assassin scout a force on the battlefield. Imagine a red dot popping up on your display for a flash... one of your squad drops, then the red dot disappears. The recon focused scout could run a cloak and scanner rather than a silencer and retrieve intelligence from close proximity to the enemy.
In addition, a "grappling hook" type device or (very limited) jet-pack could be useful for scouts looking to go up and over buildings rather than around, adding to the mobility focus of the suit. Mobility is a trickier thing to develop equipment for, I have heard the jet-pack idea suggested, and I also like the sound of a short-range teleporter, but both sound like a little too much... while right now our extra .5 meter speed is too little.
Questions? Comments? Childishly rude criticisms or self-aggrandizing claims?
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3230
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Posted - 2013.10.25 02:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grappling hook and jetpack would be awesome but unrealistic to implement anytime remotely soon. I'm sort of thinking the cloaking should be a scout exclusive feature as well that is built into all scout suits instead of an equipment like is currently planned, because then the assaults and logis will use the cloak even better than the scout no doubt.
Also in regards to the active scanner, a scout really shouldn't be required to carry one in order to tell what is around him. The scouts passive scanning should be so good that a scanner becomes slightly redundant unless looking to scan at long range. Looking at the following image, http://s23.postimg.org/vzroe12fv/minimap_ranges.jpg Currently scouts passive scanning is 10 meters, or half way within the first circle. That is absolutely useless. Even with the proto Gal scout and level 5 range amplification, it only moves up to 20 meters, or the first circle, still not really useful. I scout should easily be able to scan everything within the first tick (35 meters) without the assistance of a scanner or modules. With modules, the scout should be able to read the second circle (70 meters) but it shouldn't require the scout to dedicate all his low slots for this purpose. And the active scanner wouldn't be completely redundant, as it would still be the only way to share this information with your squad and non-scouts could use it.
Another problem is that if you pass by the enemy's screen, even if he doesn't see you, the game thinks he saw you and puts you on his radar irregardless of passive scanning range and scan precision. This needs to change ASAP. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3614
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rather than considering suit specific slots, lets call them Medium Slots, they're designed to allow the suit to fulfil its intended role at the expense of some of our suits current slots.
E.G- Cal Logi get 3 high, 2 Low, 3 Medium, on Logi Medium slots affect utility and capacity of equipment, hacking, and such. On Scouts Med slots deal with stealth, hacking, and cloaking. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro more Utility slots. On assaults Med slots are for Damage Modules. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro Dedicated Damage Module slt ON heavies They are used for resistance plating. Con equal tanking slots, Pro Heavy is small arms resistant. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1271
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scanners are EWAR tools, so if this ever happens (doubtful), then it'll need to go there. |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2056
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
GÇó Gh0st C0de: Add ''piece of hardware'' , scanner Jammer. Basically, Triples (At proto level) your current Profile dampening.
Example, at level 5, a scout has 25% default profile damp? with this Scanner Jammer it becomes %75 = 25 Scan Profile
Add this and you have a deal XD (main reason i stopped being a scout is how easy it is to counter them wth the SP friendly, Isk friendly Active scanners,that everyone and their mothers equip...) |
Gh0st C0de
Spirit Collective
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:GÇó Gh0st C0de: Add ''piece of hardware'' , scanner Jammer. Basically, Triples (At proto level) your current Profile dampening.
Example, at level 5, a scout has 25% default profile damp? with this Scanner Jammer it becomes %75 = 25 Scan Profile
Add this and you have a deal XD (main reason i stopped being a scout is how easy it is to counter them wth the SP friendly, Isk friendly Active scanners,that everyone and their mothers equip...)
I like this. Though, if we made Active Scanners part of the -scout only- equipment category, suddenly way fewer people are capable of using them and the role of the scout AS a scout becomes far more important. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1271
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gh0st C0de wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:GÇó Gh0st C0de: Add ''piece of hardware'' , scanner Jammer. Basically, Triples (At proto level) your current Profile dampening.
Example, at level 5, a scout has 25% default profile damp? with this Scanner Jammer it becomes %75 = 25 Scan Profile
Add this and you have a deal XD (main reason i stopped being a scout is how easy it is to counter them wth the SP friendly, Isk friendly Active scanners,that everyone and their mothers equip...) I like this. Though, if we made Active Scanners part of the -scout only- equipment category, suddenly way fewer people are capable of using them and the role of the scout AS a scout becomes far more important.
These two negates each other, and you'd have to rely on passive scanners? |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3231
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gh0st C0de wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:GÇó Gh0st C0de: Add ''piece of hardware'' , scanner Jammer. Basically, Triples (At proto level) your current Profile dampening.
Example, at level 5, a scout has 25% default profile damp? with this Scanner Jammer it becomes %75 = 25 Scan Profile
Add this and you have a deal XD (main reason i stopped being a scout is how easy it is to counter them wth the SP friendly, Isk friendly Active scanners,that everyone and their mothers equip...) I like this. Though, if we made Active Scanners part of the -scout only- equipment category, suddenly way fewer people are capable of using them and the role of the scout AS a scout becomes far more important. Again, I just don't believe a scout should be required to carry an active scanner to actually scout enemy locations. The passive scan should be enough for the scout, while the active scanner is still the only way to share that intel with your squad. |
Kasira Vorrikesh
Odalisque Coterie
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 04:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gh0st C0de wrote: In my opinion, a silencer would be the quintessential example of this concept. It need not be applied to weapons directly, as Dust weapons need not operate within the bounds of current weapon technology. The equipment could present itself as a small piece of hardware that is installed in a weapon (thus not requiring new weapon models). This could replace the standard firing sound with a small hiss that can only be heard by players within ten yards or so. So, firing a pistol directly behind someone would be audible as a hiss, but shooting them from over ten yards away would not. Essential to the functionality of this silencer would be the function of eliminating the red arrows that show the direction of the shots origin if people are outside of audible range. As such, a scout could shoot at enemies with no hint as to his or her position.
A cloaking device would fit in this category nicely, something that could cloak the scout while not firing, or for a certain duration with a subsequent short cool down. If cloaking could cause one to disappear from enemy radar then it could be combined with a silencer to devastating effect, truly making the silent infiltrator or assassin scout a force on the battlefield. Imagine a red dot popping up on your display for a flash... one of your squad drops, then the red dot disappears. The recon focused scout could run a cloak and scanner rather than a silencer and retrieve intelligence from close proximity to the enemy.
In addition, a "grappling hook" type device or (very limited) jet-pack could be useful for scouts looking to go up and over buildings rather than around, adding to the mobility focus of the suit. Mobility is a trickier thing to develop equipment for, I have heard the jet-pack idea suggested, and I also like the sound of a short-range teleporter, but both sound like a little too much... while right now our extra .5 meter speed is too little.
Questions? Comments? Childishly rude criticisms or self-aggrandizing claims?
I like the silencer idea, but combined with the cloak, I think it'd be too much. Possibly a way to balance the silencer concept would be to make it available only with a special module equipped. Another balancing factor could be to make silence possible only with specialized (scout only) laser weaponry (the logic being that lasers don't make noise, and could be somehow modified to fire nearly invisible beams, therefore difficult to trace the origin of).
I think the cloak itself will have to be active and not passive, for balance; meant to be used in conjunction with the scout's inherent speed advantages to cover a reasonably large amount of ground in a short (ten seconds, say) amount of time, totally invisible. Short cooldown (another ten seconds), at which point the scout would have to find some physical cover to stay out of sight, and rely on low profile stats to stay off radar. Forcing the scout to periodically find cover in this way would prevent constant stealth abuse, and would also limit the value of cloaking for heavier, slower units, who would potentially decloak while running in the open. Oh, and certain scout suits might alter those cooldown times (like 12 seconds of stealth with 8 cooldown at level 5, or something).
I too want the ability to climb without a ladder. I'd also make it module-based (so potential Spider-Men have to sacrifice something else in their fitting), making it either scout-only or giving scouts a tremendous advantage in climbing speed (climbing in a medium suit would be excruciatingly slow by comparison, and impossible in a heavy suit). |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2069
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 04:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gh0st C0de wrote:
I like this. Though, if we made Active Scanners part of the -scout only- equipment category, suddenly way fewer people are capable of using them and the role of the scout AS a scout becomes far more important.
WEll , Scan = Scout. +1
Sadly as it is, between fitting cost and equipment slot use, the Logis are by fat the ones taking most advantage of them.... |
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2072
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 04:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote: Again, I just don't believe a scout should be required to carry an active scanner to actually scout enemy locations. The passive scan should be enough for the scout, while the active scanner is still the only way to share that intel with your squad.
In a perfect world: GÖª Scouts scan passivley EFFECTIVLEY. GÖª Scouts are not detected by active scanners |
Ghost Kaisar
R 0 N 1 N
659
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 05:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Rather than considering suit specific slots, lets call them Medium Slots, they're designed to allow the suit to fulfil its intended role at the expense of some of our suits current slots.
E.G- Cal Logi get 3 high, 2 Low, 3 Medium, on Logi Medium slots affect utility and capacity of equipment, hacking, and such. On Scouts Med slots deal with stealth, hacking, and cloaking. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro more Utility slots. On assaults Med slots are for Damage Modules. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro Dedicated Damage Module slt ON heavies They are used for resistance plating. Con equal tanking slots, Pro Heavy is small arms resistant.
I would love this. It makes much more sense than the dumb "High Power, Low Power" slots. |
One Eyed King
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 05:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would just be happy with a Jedi mind trick so that when I am following someone, and I think to myself, "Don't turn around, just don't turn around..." they actually wouldn't turn around. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation The Ascendancy
651
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rather than considering suit specific slots, lets call them Medium Slots, they're designed to allow the suit to fulfil its intended role at the expense of some of our suits current slots.
E.G- Cal Logi get 3 high, 2 Low, 3 Medium, on Logi Medium slots affect utility and capacity of equipment, hacking, and such. On Scouts Med slots deal with stealth, hacking, and cloaking. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro more Utility slots. On assaults Med slots are for Damage Modules. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro Dedicated Damage Module slt ON heavies They are used for resistance plating. Con equal tanking slots, Pro Heavy is small arms resistant. I would love this. It makes much more sense than the dumb "High Power, Low Power" slots. Good thread here OP. So we are talking about "role modules" I like it. What do the devs think? .... |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
802
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 15:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
The silencer is a pretty freaking good idea actually, instead of changing stats just add an other element into the mix. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
450
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Rather than considering suit specific slots, lets call them Medium Slots, they're designed to allow the suit to fulfil its intended role at the expense of some of our suits current slots.
E.G- Cal Logi get 3 high, 2 Low, 3 Medium, on Logi Medium slots affect utility and capacity of equipment, hacking, and such. On Scouts Med slots deal with stealth, hacking, and cloaking. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro more Utility slots. On assaults Med slots are for Damage Modules. Con Less Tanking Slots, Pro Dedicated Damage Module slt ON heavies They are used for resistance plating. Con equal tanking slots, Pro Heavy is small arms resistant.
Go make a thread in Feedback/Requests so I can like this again. |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Something I'd like to see for scouts that actually allows them to function as scouts: Binoculars that allow you to "tag" an enemy (one at a time for basic, 2 for advanced and 3 for proto) that makes them visible to the whole team. Basically a sniper scope that, instead of firing bullets, "paints" an enemy soldier and displays his location. This could last until the soldier is killed or for a set duration of time. |
Vyuru
Bojo's School of the Trades
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
This thread get's Vyuru's Seal of Approval for freaking awesome new and creative ways in which to kill mine enemies!
Though I will toss in, why not make the silencer/hit detection more of a weapon modification? Let us modify our suits/weapons more to how we want to play. We already get to modify our suits a little bit through passive skills and stuff, but I'd like to take it a step further if I could. |
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