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The real Assult / Logi Fix!

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Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 864	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:46:00 - [1] - Quote REMOVE THE ASSULT!! Thats right, after a lot of deliberation its not the logi that is the problem, its the assault! Why? Well first off calling a specilization suit an assault gives the impression that suit is deaigned for slaying, for pure killing potential nothing more, this is wrong. We shouldn't have a specilization for this. But what about my lovely assult bonuses? Apply them to the standard racial variants make them the "assaults", give them bonuses which then apply to both the logi and the other new specilization. Really there are very few differences between std and assault suits, a little extra pg/cpu and some passive bonuses! I think making assaults standard would solve most of our current situation, there isn't a problem with LOGI suits, its just we all think the assault should be OP by comparison!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 864	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:49:00 - [2] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: lame Great anything more constructive, or you just brushing it off without really thinking?
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:59:00 - [3] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: It actually is an interesting idea, mind you one that will not happen since we are so far into the suit, but the logi and assault suits are not that different from each other, which is why they are both very common and why both complain about each other's roles. Once you merged the two, remake the old idea of how the crusader suit was going to function and have that being the new support class. Crusader suit haven't heard of that? But yeah effectively the ASSAULT suit isn't really a specialisation, I would expect all suits to be capable of assaulting!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:08:00 - [4] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1423871#post1423871 Read it. Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Okay i'm tired to see a lot of topic who wants to get down the logi but give some crappy ideas (only secondary weapon or other sht ). Or frustrated assault who want MOOOOOORE power again So there's a SIMPLE solution to not getting down the Logi power BUT to make the logi using his power as intended. This will make Logi still competitive but not overpowered or better than assault. Logi are too powerful because of 2 things : -Asholes who don't fit equipement and get a full rack of complex mods. -Lot of PG/CPU used by mods and not by equipements as intended. Quote: So that's pretty simple. EVERY equipements slot MUST be fitted. CCP must block the fit if one equipement slot is empty (like when you don't have a weapon fitted the fit is "Not Valid") Battle logi will take Amarr or Caldari (3 slot only in proto) Support logi will take Minmatarr/Gallente (4slot) At least 20% of the used PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement No basic equipement (3 basic reppers that use nothing is PG/CPU) as a proto. You want a lot of PG/CPU to fit every mods you want ? Go away. Play as a real LOGI or get the fu*k out. With these two really simple thing we're gonna have balanced Logi. Logi will be still competitive (Versatile with high Slots/PG/CPU and lot of equipement slot). BUT will use it to help his teamates and still be an effective combat unit. (Not an extroardinary soldier) Like this post make than the Dev see it. It will balance everything. Logi who already play as intended will not be nerfed and Logi who use their fit as not as intended will be nerf. It's perfect isn't ? (I'm a 14Millions SP logi i know what i'm talking about. ) Don't need a assault buff or a too big Logi Nerf. It's gonna break the game nothing else. You must admit i found a great solution. (Honestly with objectivity.) Now please react to it give your opinion (A real opinion not whining people or little kids who just want to cry.) Make this thread got support make it getting up to the Dev or at least to a CPM.... No, this is too limiting a logi does not need all slots filled to be a good logi! For example a guy goes ammo pack-mule fits 3 proto ammohives, and survivable loadout. Has no pg/cpu left, your going to tell him his fit is invalid? The problem isn't the logi, the logi is just a proxy gripe for assaults who think their suits should be stronger!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:11:00 - [5] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: It actually is an interesting idea, mind you one that will not happen since we are so far into the suit, but the logi and assault suits are not that different from each other, which is why they are both very common and why both complain about each other's roles. Once you merged the two, remake the old idea of how the crusader suit was going to function and have that being the new support class. Crusader suit haven't heard of that? But yeah effectively the ASSAULT suit isn't really a specialisation, I would expect all suits to be capable of assaulting! In early beta, there were talks of a crusader suit which would link suits hps together and provide aoe buffs to units that it was near, literally making it a force multiplier. It was a passive support class that they were in the middle of making. That sounds kind of awsome, although a commander name would be more fitting! Crusader suits make me think of EVA activities!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:21:00 - [6] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1423871#post1423871 Read it. Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Okay i'm tired to see a lot of topic who wants to get down the logi but give some crappy ideas (only secondary weapon or other sht ). Or frustrated assault who want MOOOOOORE power again So there's a SIMPLE solution to not getting down the Logi power BUT to make the logi using his power as intended. This will make Logi still competitive but not overpowered or better than assault. Logi are too powerful because of 2 things : -Asholes who don't fit equipement and get a full rack of complex mods. -Lot of PG/CPU used by mods and not by equipements as intended. Quote: So that's pretty simple. EVERY equipements slot MUST be fitted. CCP must block the fit if one equipement slot is empty (like when you don't have a weapon fitted the fit is "Not Valid") Battle logi will take Amarr or Caldari (3 slot only in proto) Support logi will take Minmatarr/Gallente (4slot) At least 20% of the used PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement No basic equipement (3 basic reppers that use nothing is PG/CPU) as a proto. You want a lot of PG/CPU to fit every mods you want ? Go away. Play as a real LOGI or get the fuk out. With these two really simple thing we're gonna have balanced Logi. Logi will be still competitive (Versatile with high Slots/PG/CPU and lot of equipement slot). BUT will use it to help his teamates and still be an effective combat unit. (Not an extroardinary soldier) Like this post make than the Dev see it. It will balance everything. Logi who already play as intended will not be nerfed and Logi who use their fit as not as intended will be nerf. It's perfect isn't ? (I'm a 14Millions SP logi i know what i'm talking about. ) Don't need a assault buff or a too big Logi Nerf. It's gonna break the game nothing else. You must admit i found a great solution. (Honestly with objectivity.) Now please react to it give your opinion (A real opinion not whining people or little kids who just want to cry.) Make this thread got support make it getting up to the Dev or at least to a CPM.... No, this is too limiting a logi does not need all slots filled to be a good logi! For example a guy goes ammo pack-mule fits 3 proto ammohives, and survivable loadout. Has no pg/cpu left, your going to tell him his fit is invalid? The problem isn't the logi, the logi is just a proxy gripe for assaults who think their suits should be stronger! Yes his fit is invalid. Only take ammo you think it's be a logi ??? Assault can also take proto nanohives it only ask 1 slot.... And no it's not too limiting. In fact too much people wants too much freedom but now we see the results. It's not freedom it's anarchy. So yes we NEED to bee limited. Yes I think a logi carrying a *** tonne of ammunition is very important to a squad! I run a minmatar assault suit with MD, SP, FL, RE. I usually do flanking manouvers, but I don't have an ammo supply, yet I can still get through a hive by myself, not to mention the rest of the squad.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:24:00 - [7] - Quote 8213 wrote: Truth be told, I always felt "Why am I using an Assault suit?" Granted, its cheaper, and a Logi can do it better, but the assault bonus really isn't very "assault" like. Why not make the Assault suit do more damage? They are meant to kill, right? So why not give them something lethal and offensive? Then assaults would become overpowered, if we gave it a 10% damage boost plus efficency, plus 2 damage mods your looking at ar that hit for tar damage! The cultivation that an assault suit should be a specilization is wrong, assaults are nothing special, every suit assaults!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:27:00 - [8] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: 8213 wrote: Truth be told, I always felt "Why am I using an Assault suit?" Granted, its cheaper, and a Logi can do it better, but the assault bonus really isn't very "assault" like. Why not make the Assault suit do more damage? They are meant to kill, right? So why not give them something lethal and offensive? I think the idea of the OP is supposed to be that have every suit has something unique about it beyond just assaulting, essentially if I am not mistaken he wants Logis to be the new assaults that have equipment support options in addition to their fighting abilities. But yes the other option is to give the assaults a better racial Exactly Logis are above and beyond, they are a specilization above the standard assaulting role, also by doing this and introducing anothe medium specialist suit we would see more team play!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 865	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:31:00 - [9] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: 2/10 Would not read again or Recommend to a friend Shut up man, I wasn't asking your opinion I was asking for the opinion of people who aren't stuck up their own ****!!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 870	Posted - 2013.10.25 08:35:00 - [10] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Really there are very few differences between std and assault suits, a little extra pg/cpu and some passive bonuses! I think making assaults standard would solve most of our current situation, Wanna nerf scouts too because there's nothing but racial bonuses between a scout and light frame (cost)? The equivalent would be combining pilot and scout suits to one unit for more utility Assault and logistics are two specializations, the op is saying to bring them into one And all I mentioned was that it was an interesting idea. No he's not saying that at all. He is saying there is very little difference between the assault suit and basic frame and that the basic frame should be buffed up to Assault status allowing a smaller SP sink and better basic frame in essence. However there is no difference at all between Light Frames and Scout frames beside the small CPU/PG differences. So to make the scout a Basic frame would buff the light frames but nerf the scout role because no scout bonus would apply to them. So if what the OP proposes were to apply as well to Light frames you'd have a very disgruntled group of Light Frame users. He's not talking about merging the Logistic Dropsuit and the Assault dropsuit, they are as different as an elephant and an aardvark, like the difference between a sentinel heavy and commando. The Assault and the Basic are much more similar than the Assault and Logistics.EDIT: His fix is not a fix because it would require giving bonuses to a basic frame which goes against the standard so..... In terms of light suit I would say the scout suit needs to be reworked, buffed to be an actual scout in comparison to his lightn assault counterpart. The best tree to look at is the heavy, the standard heavy suit is pretty average, then the sentinel is slow and has more slots by comparison, that is a specilization. The commando has 2 light weapons over a single heavy, the suit needs work but that's a specilization. As such I would say for the light skill tree, buff the health of the current light suit, then give the scout suit more physical bonuses, to speed, ewar, and a second eq slot, but they maintain their incredibly fragile composure.

Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 870	Posted - 2013.10.25 08:38:00 - [11] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Really there are very few differences between std and assault suits, a little extra pg/cpu and some passive bonuses! I think making assaults standard would solve most of our current situation, Wanna nerf scouts too because there's nothing but racial bonuses between a scout and light frame (cost)? The equivalent would be combining pilot and scout suits to one unit for more utility Assault and logistics are two specializations, the op is saying to bring them into one And all I mentioned was that it was an interesting idea. Not quite Im saying everyone assults its not really a specilization, the assult doesn't differ, from any other medium sukt, because every suit can do its job. For all intensive purposes completely remove the assault suit, and add another specilization!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 870	Posted - 2013.10.25 08:40:00 - [12] - Quote CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT wrote: Hahaha. This is an awful idea, but i love it because it's still not as bad as the many other terrible ideas that have popped up on the forums this week. Seriously, you are all working so hard to get unbroken things fixed, and fixing little the things with an over sized novelty sledge (nerf) hammer. Good game OP. I really hope CCP ignores most of what goes on here in this sh!t fight we call a forum. Im not really fixing anything, I just don't understand why so many people complain that someone wiith a gun killed them!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 870	Posted - 2013.10.25 08:42:00 - [13] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: REMOVE THE ASSULT!! Thats right, after a lot of deliberation its not the logi that is the problem, its the assault! Why? Well first off calling a specilization suit an assault gives the impression that suit is deaigned for slaying, for pure killing potential nothing more, this is wrong. We shouldn't have a specilization for this. But what about my lovely assult bonuses? Apply them to the standard racial variants make them the "assaults", give them bonuses which then apply to both the logi and the other new specilization. Really there are very few differences between std and assault suits, a little extra pg/cpu and some passive bonuses! I think making assaults standard would solve most of our current situation, there isn't a problem with LOGI suits, its just we all think the assault should be OP by comparison! What you just suggested is impossible with the current skill tree. Why would I say that, because on no other tree do you get skill bonuses for the first jump into any suit, it is always "basic" suit, then specialization, while I would like what you are suggesting that basic suits get bonuses of some sort, you would also be increasing the price of every assault suit by several thousand isk. In short to be able to accomodate your wanted change the developers would have to retool the entire dropsuit command skill tree and possibly 1/3 or 1/2 of all medium suits in the game. While I would want to do what you are talking about, it would be a massive amount of deving that would have to take place and probably 1-2 major patches to fix it all. Well once the deep code is fixed to allow the changes the devs are making to logi suits anyway it'll be dead easy! A dozen setter commands and the removal of 4 suits, the second specilization can come later!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 870	Posted - 2013.10.25 08:47:00 - [14] - Quote Chris F2112 wrote: What a bad idea. Not every suit is meant to be frontline combat, and no, not every suit should be able to 'assault'. That's what the assault suit is for. This idea is pretty much terrible. Thats the point, we are playing a game where everyone has a weapon, your telling me suits shouldn't be capable of killing people because their name suggests otherwise? This game is about choice, if I want to kill someone I shouldn't have to wear an assault suit to do so, otherwise this might as well be cod, where everyone runs the same gead, and the only difference is the weapon. You can't expect in an FPS for everyone in a support class to hang back and do nothing!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 870	Posted - 2013.10.25 08:49:00 - [15] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I hope you realize that if you ignore the equipment slots and tank out a logi suit, it's really nothing but a more expensive, slower assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm... Yes Im quite aware, its the equipment that make important, its a specilzation!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 872	Posted - 2013.10.25 11:09:00 - [16] - Quote CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT wrote: Hahaha. This is an awful idea, but i love it because it's still not as bad as the many other terrible ideas that have popped up on the forums this week. Seriously, you are all working so hard to get unbroken things fixed, and fixing little the things with an over sized novelty sledge (nerf) hammer. Good game OP. I really hope CCP ignores most of what goes on here in this sh!t fight we call a forum. Im not really fixing anything, I just don't understand why so many people complain that someone wiith a gun killed them! I know. I get the point you are making with the original post, which is why I found it so amusing. Its all a bit silly. One of the things that sets this game apart from other FPS is that you start with a suit type and you can fit almost anything you want on it. If you want to put a sniper rifle code breaker and profile damp on a heavy suit, then you can do that. Those who think every class should stick to a predetermined role should go back to COD/BF. The logi suits are supposed to be the most versatile class and they are. Assaults are still better slayers/tank. If you want to heavily tank/damage mod a logi suit then good luck fitting any decent equipment and hope you don't run out of bullets because that assault will swap to his sidearm and then you're toast. Presciely the problem with naming something assault means everyone thinks it should be the best at killing, this is not necessarily true, nor should it ne!!