DUST Search - WTF Reduced kill points!!!???

CCP Greyscale wrote:

Sana Rayya wrote:

Thanks Greyscale, for explaining the rationale and math behind the warpoint limiter.

The only thing I don't like is that the ceiling is scaled per minute from the very beginning of the match. In ambushes specifically, sometimes you spawn in within 50 meters of the reds, so you might end up scoring kills that are subsequently penalized within less than a minute of the start of the battle.

Maybe you should build incrementally from another fixed WP value other than zero - say 500 WP limit right at the beginning, then 400 WP per minute after that?

Yeah, this is probably the next tweak in the line if we find it's still an issue after we raise the cap.

Brush Master wrote:

I am fine as long as this does not effect normal gameplay but when you say it clear that it is happening, are you giving the player any feedback when it is happening? This goes back to the reduced WP gain on rep tools. It looks like a bug because no feedback is given, just reduced number. How about some red letters or something beside the WP to let them know that WP is reduced that way we know that is not a bug or can clearly see this is happening.

Also, as others have said, this is the wrong way to implement something, you just did it and then asked for feedback, this is backwards and now we wait 1-2 weeks for a fix. These kinds of code pushes are what cause your player base to get mad and leave.

Clear as in we're actually showing you the reduced payout numbers, rather than doing something behind the scenes and not telling you at all. I agree that it could be clearer still, but if this is tuned properly (#1 priority right now) the only people seeing it should be people deliberately farming, and a) they should be able to put 2 and 2 together themselves and b) we don't want to spend any significant amount of effort making a better UI just for them Smile

[edit] Oh, yeah, the other thing I was going to say here - we don't discuss exploit fixes until we've shipped them, which includes this change. If we'd announced this early enough to get feedback, it'd have acted as an incentive for the farmers to knuckle down and get in a good few weeks of concentrated farming before we ship it.

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Flashbacks of dealing with Crimewatch, Greyscale? Lol

I'd characterise it as "lessons learned" rather than "flashbacks" but yeah, that's informing this decision-making Smile


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 941	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:42:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: OwnD07 wrote: Feedback time! ... The cap is currently way too strict. I hit it multiple times per night of playing. At least one game per night my kills don't even score me points. I understand wanting to keep people from exploiting the game, but come on. I'm hitting this cap /hard/ under normal gameplay circumstances. If it makes you feel any better, I can tell you that you were in the top five characters for "number of minutes in which WP scores were reduced" I am fine as long as this does not effect normal gameplay but when you say it clear that it is happening, are you giving the player any feedback when it is happening? This goes back to the reduced WP gain on rep tools. It looks like a bug because no feedback is given, just reduced number. How about some red letters or something beside the WP to let them know that WP is reduced that way we know that is not a bug or can clearly see this is happening. Also, as others have said, this is the wrong way to implement something, you just did it and then asked for feedback, this is backwards and now we wait 1-2 weeks for a fix. These kinds of code pushes are what cause your player base to get mad and leave. GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá CEO // [email protected]
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 941	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:23:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Thanks Greyscale, for explaining the rationale and math behind the warpoint limiter. The only thing I don't like is that the ceiling is scaled per minute from the very beginning of the match. In ambushes specifically, sometimes you spawn in within 50 meters of the reds, so you might end up scoring kills that are subsequently penalized within less than a minute of the start of the battle. Maybe you should build incrementally from another fixed WP value other than zero - say 500 WP limit right at the beginning, then 400 WP per minute after that? Yeah, this is probably the next tweak in the line if we find it's still an issue after we raise the cap. Brush Master wrote: I am fine as long as this does not effect normal gameplay but when you say it clear that it is happening, are you giving the player any feedback when it is happening? This goes back to the reduced WP gain on rep tools. It looks like a bug because no feedback is given, just reduced number. How about some red letters or something beside the WP to let them know that WP is reduced that way we know that is not a bug or can clearly see this is happening. Also, as others have said, this is the wrong way to implement something, you just did it and then asked for feedback, this is backwards and now we wait 1-2 weeks for a fix. These kinds of code pushes are what cause your player base to get mad and leave. Clear as in we're actually showing you the reduced payout numbers, rather than doing something behind the scenes and not telling you at all. I agree that it could be clearer still, but if this is tuned properly (#1 priority right now) the only people seeing it should be people deliberately farming, and a) they should be able to put 2 and 2 together themselves and b) we don't want to spend any significant amount of effort making a better UI just for them [edit] Oh, yeah, the other thing I was going to say here - we don't discuss exploit fixes until we've shipped them, which includes this change. If we'd announced this early enough to get feedback, it'd have acted as an incentive for the farmers to knuckle down and get in a good few weeks of concentrated farming before we ship it. Aeon Amadi wrote: Flashbacks of dealing with Crimewatch, Greyscale? I'd characterise it as "lessons learned" rather than "flashbacks" but yeah, that's informing this decision-making For the record, I suggested a point where logis consistently don't get feedback that they are not receiving WP aka repair tool cap and how this relates to this situation as well. As a logi, I know I am easily capping out and is very annoying to not have feedback that I'm at that cap, there is no feedback at all unless this system has changed? How will people know the are running into these caps thus letting you know they need adjusted? It is not as clear as it seems you think they are and as you have said you can't determine every situation so you need us to tell you. As far as not discussing them here, please, the players know about these weeks and months before you do, there are videos, players share with each other, look at the result of not talking. GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá CEO // [email protected]
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 952	Posted - 2013.11.05 13:27:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: Absolute Idiom II wrote: Is there a reason that you couldn't simply add a max(1000,[your formula]) statement to ensure that you don't start off the battle with a cap of 0, but with a reasonable cap of 1000? Then only after 2.x minutes would your cap begin to climb higher than 1000. It opens the door to yo-yoing in and out of battles to game the cap. We might do something along those lines if people are still having issues, but I'd much rather not and keep everything nice and tight. (Yes, you can then try and track battles and persist the cap per-user per-battle, but at that point it stops being a simple fix and you're heading down the complexity rabbithole again.) Can we remove the logi repair tool cap since we have a global cap now. GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá CEO // [email protected]