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Kaze Eyrou
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
382
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Posted - 2013.10.24 14:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:Make Active Scanners provide information to your Radar only and not directly on-screen. This would still allow players to know that there are people in the vicinity without it becoming a blatant wallhack. Seriously, I scan and can sit there and line up headshots as people come around corners or have a grenade ready giving them little to no chance of surviving a surprise encounter.
Unless I have good hearing. And the sound doesn't glitch out. If CCP works a little more on sound design, I'll be able to hear you cooking that grenade and I'll know you are around that corner.
Quote:Give Scouts some sort of inherent ability to stay undetected or at least some built-in active module that allows them to stay undetected for 15-20s. Scouts already suffer enough from a lack of EHP, and the fact that my PRO scanner can detect 95% of them before they have a chance to get the jump on me effectively makes them useless. Make scouts proper stealth warriors by giving them something to stay undetected.
There is one Scout that can.
gk.0 + 4 Complex Profile Damps. 14.21 Scan Profile.
Quote:Make profile dampeners reduce the amount of time you stay lit up for. It could scale up for example 25%, 35%, and 50% from the STD to PRO level, respectively.
I'm assuming you are always using the Quantum Scanners (which by your later point it does look like that).... However there is a flaw to Quantum's that I'll cover later.
Quote:I know this is supposedly on the roadmap but give us some sort of active counter measures to the scanner. For example, a module that when activated provides a sort of "jammer" that, if someone scans in the area, would provide a mess of red dots on their radar to make it seem like there are way more than there actually are. Right now there's nothing "active" to counter the scanners, and we sorely need something.
We do have a counter now. Profile Dampeners. I believe there may have been a stealth fix recently and now if you get scanned, you only show up on the scanners radar. If the scanner is in a squad, you will show up for the scanner and the squad. However, I believe you now no longer show up for the entire enemy team when scanned. I'll have to ask around for testing, but I've seen a couple matches where people are using Active Scanners on my team, and the enemy isn't showing up anymore because no one is in a squad. Again, further testing will be needed.
A jammer, would be either interesting or annoying. If it was similar to the jammers where your radar is actually noise, then that's ok. But if I see the Halo: Reach version of "jamming", the radar will be effectively useless to everyone and annoying to all.
Quote:Get rid of "Scan Duration". Right now I can start a scan, do a quick 360, and effectively have everything in a 360 degree, 100 meter radius lit up for 25 seconds. This is a little bit broken since it makes the "Scanning Angle" borderline useless.
Actually, on my tests of Spin ScanningGäó (muhahaha! Trademarking! >:D), I noticed that while people do light up, they fade away and don't "blink" unless they were in my scan angle the moment my scan ended. In that case, you may see a bunch of people around you but only a handful will remain on screen (the ones in front of you).
Anyways, there are both strengths and weaknesses to Active Scanning. You may think you are doing well now, but I'll give you a few months when people start skilling into Profile Dampening. Once you start seeing your Active Scanner give you errors, I'm not sure you'll be singing the same tune. |
Kaze Eyrou
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Kaze Eyrou wrote:Actually, on my tests of Spin ScanningGäó (muhahaha! Trademarking! >:D), I noticed that while people do light up, they fade away and don't "blink" unless they were in my scan angle the moment my scan ended. In that case, you may see a bunch of people around you but only a handful will remain on screen (the ones in front of you).
Anyways, there are both strengths and weaknesses to Active Scanning. You may think you are doing well now, but I'll give you a few months when people start skilling into Profile Dampening. Once you start seeing your Active Scanner give you errors, I'm not sure you'll be singing the same tune. While full 360s do that, I can scan a 120 degree range and reliably get the full effect on everyone. Unless there is a MAJOR change to what is effective in this game, eHP will always be more important than prof dampening unless you are a scout.
Hmm... you and I should play in some matches sometime. Some of the things I employ in battle might surprise you.
Don't get me wrong, I also think eHP is important but I like to throw the human element of surprise in there. Many people go into matches as if it were a batting cage. When I come in the match, I'd like to think I give them a run for their money (sometimes quite literally) when they realize their ball throwing machine is all of sudden throwing curves and sliders.  |
Kaze Eyrou
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Profile dampening is borderline useless as it is right now for anyone but a Gallente Scout. They're effectively the only ones that can avoid a PRO scanner with dampeners.
The Duvolle Quantum has a precision of 28 dB. An assault suit (50 dB) wouldn't be able to reach below this unless he/she were running maxed Profile Dampening and 3x Complex Profile Dampeners (assuming there are no diminishing returns on dampeners, which I'm not sure if there are). A gk.0 scout on the other hand can do it with one Complex Dampener (45 dB * 0.9 * 0.75 * 0.80 = 24.3 dB). They are the only ones that can get below it due to their built in 25% profile reduction at the PRO level.
As far as dampeners reducing scan time, pretty much everyone uses the Quantum because of the duration. Even at the PRO level, a 50% reduction in scan time would make a 25s duration into a 12.5s duration which is still a HUGE amount of time to stay lit up.
Whoa wait. Since when does an Assault suit have a Scan Profile of 50dB.....
Now before you say it... I know Assault suits have a base profile of 50dB. But you followed with:
Quote:wouldn't be able to reach below this unless he/she were running maxed Profile Dampening and 3x Complex Profile Dampeners (assuming there are no diminishing returns on dampeners, which I'm not sure if there are).
....
Ok I misread slightly... but let us continue on with taking the 50 dB and adding level 5 profile dampening.... what do we have?
50 dB + 5 Profile Damping skill = 45 dB.
Ok. Now just to quickly point out, hydraSlav was able to do some testing and found out that there is stacking penalties to Profile Dampening.... but oddly, I getting different numbers.
Using the 3.4.2 DFT, after one Complex Profile Dampener on a Assault gk.0:
45 dB + 1 Complex Profile Dampener = 33.75
Further it to 2:
45 db + 2 Complex Profile Dampener = 26.42
So with only 2, we've actually managed to beat the PRO active scanners. True, however, this still does limit some suits, but this means the Gallente (4) can avoid pro, the Amarr and Caldari (both 3) can avoid pro, even the Minmatar (2) can avoid pro scans! |
Kaze Eyrou
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
384
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Profile dampening is borderline useless as it is right now for anyone but a Gallente Scout. They're effectively the only ones that can avoid a PRO scanner with dampeners.
The Duvolle Quantum has a precision of 28 dB. An assault suit (50 dB) wouldn't be able to reach below this unless he/she were running maxed Profile Dampening and 3x Complex Profile Dampeners (assuming there are no diminishing returns on dampeners, which I'm not sure if there are). A gk.0 scout on the other hand can do it with one Complex Dampener (45 dB * 0.9 * 0.75 * 0.80 = 24.3 dB). They are the only ones that can get below it due to their built in 25% profile reduction at the PRO level.
As far as dampeners reducing scan time, pretty much everyone uses the Quantum because of the duration. Even at the PRO level, a 50% reduction in scan time would make a 25s duration into a 12.5s duration which is still a HUGE amount of time to stay lit up.
Sorry... one more thing as well...
The Gallente Scout gk.0 can actually beat Profile Dampening with level 5 skills using only 1 Basic Profile Dampener.
Again, you used base but forgot to account for not just the skills of Profile Dampening, but also the dropsuit bonus, hence:
45 dB base + Level 5 Profile Dampening skill + Level 5 Gallente Scout = 30.37
Add 1 Basic Profile Dampener = 25.82.
However in my example above, I was refering to the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner which can scan at a stunning 15 dB! |
Kaze Eyrou
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
384
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Information regarding Assault scan profile is found here. Scan profile is 50dB and scan precision is 55dB. And yeah your math is right. It would take 2 complex dampeners not 3, my bad. Either way, that's still a huge waste of 2 low slots just to not get scanned. But I guess that's the sacrifice that has to be made if you want to avoid it.
Agreed. So basically up to the player when it comes to active scans.
You can choose the stealth route and start giving them inaccurate scans... or you can go the eHP route and attempt to draw them in a neutralize them.
Remember, the information goes both ways. Yes, he may know your position, but using your Duvolle Quantum Scanner as a reference point, I know that you are within a 100m from me somewhere. Now I just have to kill you.   |
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