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How to leave blueprints while not trashing the economy

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SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 421	Posted - 2013.10.24 05:41:00 - [1] - Quote As we've heard, the blueprints used in Dust are adversely affecting the economy, and CCP has to do something about it. IMO, the blueprint situation in Dust has striking parallels to the tech 2 blueprint crisis that happened in Eve, back in 2006 or whenever. The situation was slightly different: in Eve, a few lucky people had blueprints and were the supply bottleneck and made lots of money from everyone else. In Dust, people spent RL money and the blueprints are now crippling demand. Either way, it's not good for the economy. The solution for Dust blueprints might be very similar to what happened in Eve. The solution was to make blueprints unable to keep up with demand. In Eve, the introduction of invention increased supply by a hundredfold, so what would take a T2 blueprint owner a month to produce, could be done in two days by a dedicated inventor. Sure, the inventor couldn't make those items as cheaply, but he could move a lot more items per month. In Dust, this would be accomplished by taking blueprints out of the fitting screen, and into the realm of manufacturing the objects instead. So, say you had an 'Exile' assault rifle blueprint. Before the change, you put the blueprint in your light weapon slot and never have to worry about it again. Free assault rifles! After the change, your blueprint spawns, say, 25 'Exile' Assault Rifles each downtime. In the fitting screen, you select the assault rifles themselves, instead of the blueprint, and when you run out, you'll have to switch to a different weapon. So if you don't use a blueprint regularly, you'll stockpile them, 25 each day, and if you do use it regularly, after a while you'll find you'll need to re-engage with the Dust economy again. Also, because they're actual items instead of blueprints, those items will be available to be salvaged instead of just disappearing. Personally, I peg each blueprint at 25/day for dropsuits, weapons, modules and equipment, and 3/day for vehicles and vehicle modules, but that's just a wild-ass guess. If this change were implemented, I think those of us who have blueprints won't be completely outraged, and in fact might be happy that they're deriving value from blueprints they're not even using right now, since they'll continue to stockpile.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 422	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:05:00 - [2] - Quote Jade Dragonis wrote: The upside to this is also that there will be greater numbers of them on the market keeping value low. Or alternatively if they bring manufacturing into dust side then the could produce a fixed number of the item. For use or resale. Yeah, there's a lot of scope for this - maybe there could be an Arms Dealer skill that would allow you to produce stuff from blueprints faster, or whatever. I think blueprint trading wouldn't be a problem at all if each blueprint were production capped.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 424	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:21:00 - [3] - Quote Pent'noir wrote: I'm not so sure dust needs passive isk and bypasses resource gathering (if we went that route). I'm also not a fan of cluttering my fitting window with a bunch of fits that I can only use for a couple matches everyday. I'd be happier to just get an eve like bpo, where I can mass produce them by the 1000's. But that's just me, I can't speak for the others. It's not a huge amount of passive isk - and it pales in comparison to the isk you currently save by using the blueprint now. 25 x assault rifle = ~62.5k ISK per day. If you get an Eve-like BPO, the only way to do it (while keeping you involved in the economy, i.e. the whole point of what CCP is trying to accomplish) would be to force you to buy input materials off the market, which is not going to save you any money and would in fact just peeve you off.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 424	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:26:00 - [4] - Quote medomai grey wrote: The problem with making any changes to BPOs is that it would require the consent of every BPO holder. And that could get a bit tricky. This would be something CCP would have to deal with, regardless of what they decide. At least this way, they can offer different functionality instead of straight reduced functionality, because of the stockpiling capability (which turns into ISK when players get the ability to sell stuff)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 427	Posted - 2013.10.24 07:29:00 - [5] - Quote Pent'noir wrote: I have 60 bpo's (I was a collector), i'd be very happy with the passive isk. I guess i'd get used to having to wait awhile to use them or market them. I'd just hope that we got fitting folders so I don't have to scroll through them all when looking for a fit. Yes, it would peeve me a bit with an eve like bpo as I bought one thing and got the other. No way around that if we are talking about changing their meaning. As I think about it, maybe I like your idea better, but i'm not sure as to what effect passive isk will have. I get bored and take a couple months off too comeback to a nice chunk of sp and a huge pile of stuff to sell. I like it, but is it good? Again, this is something that CCP will have to consider when it comes to player trading of blueprints. Right now, at least 55 of those 60 blueprints are essentially unused. If you could trade them to other players (not that you would, because you're a collector, but if you were a speculator you would) then it's possible that all 60 blueprints will be used to death and impact the market accordingly. Under my proposal, you'd get a bunch of items each downtime and stand to make a tidy sum of cash each day when player trading arrives. On the other hand, the amount of isk you'd generate would be capped, unlike when you sell a blueprint and someone dies thirty times a day with dual Toxin SMGs :) I don't have a good answer to this, but I'm leaning towards the position that people who stockpile will be in a minority compared to people who use the heck out of the few blueprints they have.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 431	Posted - 2013.10.24 10:44:00 - [6] - Quote Thanks. Like I said, I'm not a game designer, but I hope there's wiggle room to make adjustments if needed. edit: I had a few examples of stuff CCP could do, then I realised they were bad ideas. Guess there's a reason I'm not a game designer, ha.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 433	Posted - 2013.10.24 14:08:00 - [7] - Quote All good ideas, and fits in well with how players expect things to work in Eve. In fact, if CCP implements this idea, I suspect they'll dial the production of each blueprint way down, like 10 suits + 1 vehicle per day, and say "here's some skills and boosters and other things you can do to increase production". It would be cool to have researchers in Eve increase the production speed of blueprints then sell them back to dust mercenaries :)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 433	Posted - 2013.10.24 14:28:00 - [8] - Quote Like I implied, CCP will have to dial down the output of a blueprint so that it represents less savings than it does now. How exactly they do that is up for discussion. Personally, I can see how it would make sense that when you login, your neocom sends out an order for replacement weapons, to arrive at the next downtime. That would cut down the effects of stockpiling weapons on alts, but you'd still need some sort of cap per character/PSN account or else you'd just transfer all the blueprints to your main :)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 437	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:37:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Dust Junky 4Life wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: It's militia gear :/ Bpo's have the SAME stats as basic equipment. The ONLY difference is higher CPU/PG usage I run my bpo's 23/7 That's because it's militia gear, which as the SAME stats as basic equipment, but with higher CPU/PG Last I checked, militia dropsuits and weapons were worse than their standard counterparts.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 440	Posted - 2013.10.25 03:24:00 - [10] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: I have a 19k raven fit and I don't see any difference in making money. But I save I think over 3k. If that's a lot to you then you must suck. And besides, if they have a full BPO fit, they are pretty much insta kill unless they stack complex shields/armor with it. I think the problem is not so much an individual problem, but when taken in aggregate (i.e. nobody buys standard SMGs at all because Toxin)

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 444	Posted - 2013.10.26 05:16:00 - [11] - Quote Well, metal scraps are a thing in Eve already :)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 462	Posted - 2013.11.03 10:24:00 - [12] - Quote Did I mention that if advanced and prototype weapons require a standard weapon to manufacture, that would dilute the market and sideline blueprints even more? "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 466	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:35:00 - [13] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What do you mean it would dilute the market? There would be an elastic demand on standard weapons if they were components in the advanced manufacturing process. The demand for standard weapons is currently of size X, and for advanced weapons is size Y, and prototype weapons is size Z. Currently, the only seller is CCP, and the only buyers are players without blueprints (let's say that's 10% of players, so the size of the market is: 0.9 X If weapons were opened up to manufacturing, then the market for standard weapons would still be 0.9 X. However, if advanced weapons required a standard weapon to make, then the demand for those standard weapons becomes Y + Z + 0.9 X thus diluting the effect of blueprints from 10% to some fraction (say, 3%), which is a good thing. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 467	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:39:00 - [14] - Quote Yeah exactly. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 467	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:46:00 - [15] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: But what would happen to the 51+ Copies of a raven assault suit fitting I have? Or the 30+ copies of my Templar fittings? Then each downtime you get an extra 800 suits. There's no difference between you having 51 copies of a blueprint, and 51 guys having one copy. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 470	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:52:00 - [16] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: I didn't even know we had an economy yet in the first place.... It's a very primitive monopoly: CCP spawns weapons, players buy them (or have blueprints so they don't have to buy them) "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 470	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:55:00 - [17] - Quote Yeah, that's right. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 471	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:09:00 - [18] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: Still, as it is now.... blueprints cause no real problems with our so called "economy". In the future, when we have a player-driven market then, they might cause some problems; Look at T2 Blueprint Originals, they don't exactly screw over EVE's economy. CCP is already looking to the future: CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. source "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace

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