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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1621
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Posted - 2013.10.23 16:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
So while I had some spare time at work today (I have lots of spare time at work), I decided to do some fun breaking down and calculating around armour and movement speed values for all the various available dropsuits. I realised that some of my initial avenues were pointless and most likely false but I took a few different tacks and eventually came to some quite interesting findings.
*Disclaimer GÇô I had to make some fairly sizeable assumptions here, so keep that in mind when tearing my workings to pieces*
*Note GÇô all values are taken with no skills or modules applied, based on the base armour and base movement speed of the bare suits*
Initially I started with the simple idea that armour is directly proportional to movement speed, so ran with armour/movement for all suits. This shows up massive discrepancies with the lowest being the minmatar light at 12.3 and the highest being the Amarr Heavy at 112.5. Now before I really thought about what this actually represented I was pretty astounded but then I had the revelation that there is probably a base speed for clones independent of armour. So if you completely remove armour from the equation, there could be a way to reconcile the base speeds for the clones/frames and deduce how base speed has been applied across the board.
However, calculating base speed is riddled with assumptions. Notably, how much penalty does base armour apply to base speed? Do I use 135 armour = 5% penalty or 85 armour = 2% or even the older values of 135 = 10%? I decided to go for the top armour plate value and do calculations based on both the new and old penalties (in my below analyses IGÇÖll use the current 10% penalty as that was the value when the suits were originally created).
My results after stripping the various suits of their assumed innate armour speed penalties are quite interesting. For instance, a gallente light frame is only around 0.17m/s faster than the medium frame but the logi is a full 0.5m/s slower than the assault. The minmatar scout is only 0.12m/s faster than the medium and logi is only 0.36m/s slower; the caldari medium 0.45m/s faster than its logi.
The amarr is unique in that it has 5 different suits for comparing:
Militia Amarr Medium Frame GÇô 5.54
Logistics A-I GÇô 5.19
Militia Amarr Heavy Frame GÇô 4.65
Amarr Heavy Frame A-I GÇô 5.14
Commando A-I GÇô 4.91
Now this is probably one of the most interesting finds right here because it looks like the amarr heavyGÇÖs base speed is almost the same as the amarr logi! Also, despite being faster with armour included (4m/s vs 3.6m/s), the commando actually has a lower base speed than the heavy frame by 0.23m/s. ThereGÇÖs some shenanigans going on here!
The next thing I looked at was comparing the races various suits against each other and came to a couple more interesting conclusions:
1) For both light and medium frames gallente have the fastest base speed
2) For logis itGÇÖs the minmatar (strange considering theyGÇÖre supposedly the speedy race)
My initial intention with all this was in hope of finding a common speed or some sort of calculation that would explain how the various speeds had been applied to the suits by CCP but it has become clear that this either is far more complicated than can be figured out without inside info or there is no calculation and the numbers are just arbitrary. At first I was uneasy with the latter idea but then I realised that actually this makes some sense (even if some of the above pointed out discrepancies donGÇÖt) GÇô it makes sense that the differently sized frames would have different base speeds and it also makes sense that each race would make their clones with varying speeds too.
That said though, the bolded lines above are things that CCP should probably look a little into because even if my calculations are incorrect/based on false assumptions, these things highlight some areas that are at least a little out of line. Should the amarr logi be faster? Should the commando be faster? ShouldnGÇÖt the minmatar be the fastest in all suits? ShouldnGÇÖt all scouts be significantly faster than the mediums? |
DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles
2173
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Posted - 2013.10.23 17:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nvm |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
831
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Posted - 2013.10.23 17:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's quite interesting analysis, right thar! So +1 for that.
My initial comment, however, is that there's more going on than simple balancing of armor against speed. And that is, namely, shields. Gallente are fast relative to armor amount, but they're an armor tanked race and have higher armor HP in general.
What would happen if you applied your maths to put speed relative to total base HP of a given suit? I think you're more likely to find your trend there.
You may have a point when it comes to within-race oddness, however... |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1622
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 17:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:That's quite interesting analysis, right thar! So +1 for that.
My initial comment, however, is that there's more going on than simple balancing of armor against speed. And that is, namely, shields. Gallente are fast relative to armor amount, but they're an armor tanked race and have higher armor HP in general.
What would happen if you applied your maths to put speed relative to total base HP of a given suit? I think you're more likely to find your trend there.
You may have a point when it comes to within-race oddness, however...
Yeah I thought about shields and total HP too but figured that it shouldn't be taken into consideration because shields don't have speed penalties (on Dust nor Eve). I don't even know how I'd try to figure out base speed after shields because there's nothing to base the speed that would be added by removing shields from suits.
Also this would likely totally throw out any semblance of sense when it comes to the Caldari suits because their base speed is already not that much lower with just the armor taken into account. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
833
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Posted - 2013.10.23 17:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Django Quik wrote: I don't even know how I'd try to figure out base speed after shields because there's nothing to base the speed that would be added by removing shields from suits.
Also this would likely totally throw out any semblance of sense when it comes to the Caldari suits because their base speed is already not that much lower with just the armor taken into account.
Well, you have the trend that Caldari Medium has 210 shields, 120 armor, 5m/s speed. Gallente Medium has 120 shields, 210 armor, 5m/s speed.
There's a symmetry and form of balance going on there. If you could figure out speed as a value against total HP, and then trend it against light and heavy suits, you may find something interesting.
There may be a "base" speed and "base HP" that everything is balanced around. Or you may find that Scout is way too slow for its base HP, and what a more fair speed number could be.
Just some thoughts.  |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1628
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:There's a symmetry and form of balance going on there. If you could figure out speed as a value against total HP, and then trend it against light and heavy suits, you may find something interesting. There may be a "base" speed and "base HP" that everything is balanced around. Or you may find that Scout is way too slow for its base HP, and what a more fair speed number could be. Just some thoughts.
Good point - I did start something along those sorts of lines but will give it another look over (probably something like eHP/speed) tomorrow when I'm once again bored at work. |
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