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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 00:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Skihids wrote:As others have stated, gear and skills do make a difference, but it matters very little if someone gets the drop on your with the current low TTK for just about any fitting.
If someone starts shooting you in the back it's going to take you a couple seconds to turn around and engage the enemy. It's only about one more second before he cuts you down with a militia AR.
Situational awareness and flanking is much more a factor than gear, and it's something that belongs to the player not the character.
A lot of experienced vets with high skill levels run low meta level fits which can mislead you. Seeing that a STD suit with a MLT BPO rifle killed you leads you to believe that the stats are broken.
What the kill screen won't tell you is that they guy had level 5 prof and SS on his AR with a complex damage mod making it more lethal than your GEK with prof 1. It also won't tell you that he's been playing for a year and knows exactly where you are likely to be and flanked you to get the drop on you.
Levels in DUST are nothing like what they are in a traditional MMO. High levels don't mean invulnerability from low levels. It gives you an edge, but you have to know how to take advantage of it. Think of it as having an 8" knife when your opponent has a 4" blade. It's an advantage, but it's not going to help if you turn your back to him.
People like YOU are the reason that I wrote this. I wish I could give you five likes. THANK YOU !!!!!! Seriously. This is what I was looking for. A shame others can't give such detailed statements when speaking , all they want to do is break you down and that doesn't help at all. Everyone who puts up a post like this one isn't crying about loosing or getting killed , ( It happen to the BEST of them ) it might sound like that because of the frustration that's present at the time of writing but they are looking for instruction and little gems like this one that turns a light switch on so they can understand and not be spoken to like a kid that had it's " toy taken away and this is why ". No one want's to be demeaned , at least I don't . THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING HELPFUL. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1519
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 01:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I've been told that shields mean nothing I need to concentrate on armor and vise versa. Meta levels mean nothing. At some point with all the things that I have herd it has become confusing. I used skill points for some of the wrong things for me by listening to the advice of others. Everyone who plays this game has a different style and that's one of the things that I liked about this. I used this topic to try and find out about something that I was told that didn't matter so I appreciate all the positive feedback. You have answered most of the questions that I had. But can someone answer the question about blueprints weapons and the permanent weapon items that you can BUY seemingly being stronger ???? They are not stronger. The 'Exile' is the same stats as a standard 'Assault Rifle'. But my 'Exile' with AR Prof V and a complex damage modifier hits harder than your Duvolle. Basically, people ***** about whatever kills them. Every one doesn't have the resume that you have in your assault rifle arsenal but I was asking because I see these guns get A LOT of kills. I know that in this game you kill and get killed , that's a no brainer but sometimes the ways that it happen seem a bit cheesy. You'd actually be surprised how many people have AR Prof III, IV or V. The AR is the most commonly used weapon, and the Exile is the BPO version of it, and it has been given out / included in packages for more than a year. That's why it is seen a lot. Also, as soon as you notice something, you start taking note of it more; it's a brain thing.
Just reaffirming that it is not because the BPO is more powerful than the ISK version. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2316
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 02:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Skihids wrote:As others have stated, gear and skills do make a difference, but it matters very little if someone gets the drop on your with the current low TTK for just about any fitting.
If someone starts shooting you in the back it's going to take you a couple seconds to turn around and engage the enemy. It's only about one more second before he cuts you down with a militia AR.
Situational awareness and flanking is much more a factor than gear, and it's something that belongs to the player not the character.
A lot of experienced vets with high skill levels run low meta level fits which can mislead you. Seeing that a STD suit with a MLT BPO rifle killed you leads you to believe that the stats are broken.
What the kill screen won't tell you is that they guy had level 5 prof and SS on his AR with a complex damage mod making it more lethal than your GEK with prof 1. It also won't tell you that he's been playing for a year and knows exactly where you are likely to be and flanked you to get the drop on you.
Levels in DUST are nothing like what they are in a traditional MMO. High levels don't mean invulnerability from low levels. It gives you an edge, but you have to know how to take advantage of it. Think of it as having an 8" knife when your opponent has a 4" blade. It's an advantage, but it's not going to help if you turn your back to him. People like YOU are the reason that I wrote this. I wish I could give you five likes. THANK YOU !!!!!! Seriously. This is what I was looking for. A shame others can't give such detailed statements when speaking , all they want to do is break you down and that doesn't help at all. Everyone who puts up a post like this one isn't crying about loosing or getting killed , ( It happen to the BEST of them ) it might sound like that because of the frustration that's present at the time of writing but they are looking for instruction and little gems like this one that turns a light switch on so they can understand and not be spoken to like a kid that had it's " toy taken away and this is why ". No one want's to be demeaned , at least I don't . THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING HELPFUL. MAY THE GOOD LORD BLESS YOU. YOU HAVE CLASS.
To be fair to the others they have heard complaints over and over to the point tthat they assume people know better but are just complaining. We get alot of that on the forums.
To elaborate, the suits and weapons have had their differences muted over time. Suits used to go up in base HP quite a bit with meta level and weapons used to go up in damage more too. Meta level meant much more back then, causing many to complain that gear meant more than skill. There are also folks who want further tiericide to completely remove the difference in power levels, leaving only different specializations.
The reduction in power difference has led to more folks running the cheaper lower level gear.
I believe that fact is the cause of the current BPO issue. CCP sold BPOs of MLT and STD items for cash thinking that folks would eventually quit using them when they skilled into ADV or PROTO gear. The problem is that used to be true but with the changes it isn't any more. BPOs are attractvie for vets now that character skill levels are high and player skill makes more of a difference.
That means vets are frerquently using BPOs and that's affecting the economy. It also means you will frequently be killed by low meta levels.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 02:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I've been told that shields mean nothing I need to concentrate on armor and vise versa. Meta levels mean nothing. At some point with all the things that I have herd it has become confusing. I used skill points for some of the wrong things for me by listening to the advice of others. Everyone who plays this game has a different style and that's one of the things that I liked about this. I used this topic to try and find out about something that I was told that didn't matter so I appreciate all the positive feedback. You have answered most of the questions that I had. But can someone answer the question about blueprints weapons and the permanent weapon items that you can BUY seemingly being stronger ???? They are not stronger. The 'Exile' is the same stats as a standard 'Assault Rifle'. But my 'Exile' with AR Prof V and a complex damage modifier hits harder than your Duvolle. Basically, people ***** about whatever kills them. Every one doesn't have the resume that you have in your assault rifle arsenal but I was asking because I see these guns get A LOT of kills. I know that in this game you kill and get killed , that's a no brainer but sometimes the ways that it happen seem a bit cheesy. You'd actually be surprised how many people have AR Prof III, IV or V. The AR is the most commonly used weapon, and the Exile is the BPO version of it, and it has been given out / included in packages for more than a year. That's why it is seen a lot. Also, as soon as you notice something, you start taking note of it more; it's a brain thing. Just reaffirming that it is not because the BPO is more powerful than the ISK version.
THANK YOU AS WELL. It is a brain thing and it made me curious , your ABSOLUTELY right.
Spot on. And I'm not British. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 02:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Skihids wrote:As others have stated, gear and skills do make a difference, but it matters very little if someone gets the drop on your with the current low TTK for just about any fitting.
If someone starts shooting you in the back it's going to take you a couple seconds to turn around and engage the enemy. It's only about one more second before he cuts you down with a militia AR.
Situational awareness and flanking is much more a factor than gear, and it's something that belongs to the player not the character.
A lot of experienced vets with high skill levels run low meta level fits which can mislead you. Seeing that a STD suit with a MLT BPO rifle killed you leads you to believe that the stats are broken.
What the kill screen won't tell you is that they guy had level 5 prof and SS on his AR with a complex damage mod making it more lethal than your GEK with prof 1. It also won't tell you that he's been playing for a year and knows exactly where you are likely to be and flanked you to get the drop on you.
Levels in DUST are nothing like what they are in a traditional MMO. High levels don't mean invulnerability from low levels. It gives you an edge, but you have to know how to take advantage of it. Think of it as having an 8" knife when your opponent has a 4" blade. It's an advantage, but it's not going to help if you turn your back to him. People like YOU are the reason that I wrote this. I wish I could give you five likes. THANK YOU !!!!!! Seriously. This is what I was looking for. A shame others can't give such detailed statements when speaking , all they want to do is break you down and that doesn't help at all. Everyone who puts up a post like this one isn't crying about loosing or getting killed , ( It happen to the BEST of them ) it might sound like that because of the frustration that's present at the time of writing but they are looking for instruction and little gems like this one that turns a light switch on so they can understand and not be spoken to like a kid that had it's " toy taken away and this is why ". No one want's to be demeaned , at least I don't . THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING HELPFUL. MAY THE GOOD LORD BLESS YOU. YOU HAVE CLASS. To be fair to the others they have heard complaints over and over to the point tthat they assume people know better but are just complaining. We get alot of that on the forums. To elaborate, the suits and weapons have had their differences muted over time. Suits used to go up in base HP quite a bit with meta level and weapons used to go up in damage more too. Meta level meant much more back then, causing many to complain that gear meant more than skill. There are also folks who want further tiericide to completely remove the difference in power levels, leaving only different specializations. The reduction in power difference has led to more folks running the cheaper lower level gear. I believe that fact is the cause of the current BPO issue. CCP sold BPOs of MLT and STD items for cash thinking that folks would eventually quit using them when they skilled into ADV or PROTO gear. The problem is that used to be true but with the changes it isn't any more. BPOs are attractvie for vets now that character skill levels are high and player skill makes more of a difference. That means vets are frerquently using BPOs and that's affecting the economy. It also means you will frequently be killed by low meta levels.
See that's what I mean. You give a definition as well as history. I have to thank you again for the information and that's EXACTLY what I need. That's food for the brain right there. Now I understand BPO's too and I always wondered about that but see , you didn't even know and you answered that question for me. I just didn't want to seem stupid but I have to remember to not be afraid to ask. I've only been playing a little under two month's now. But that's why I post items to get an understanding because this can be overwhelming and confusing if I let it because I want to be great in DUST but it just takes time. THANK YOU AGAIN. |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
253
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 03:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I've been told that shields mean nothing I need to concentrate on armor and vise versa. Meta levels mean nothing. At some point with all the things that I have herd it has become confusing. I used skill points for some of the wrong things for me by listening to the advice of others. Everyone who plays this game has a different style and that's one of the things that I liked about this. I used this topic to try and find out about something that I was told that didn't matter so I appreciate all the positive feedback. You have answered most of the questions that I had. But can someone answer the question about blueprints weapons and the permanent weapon items that you can BUY seemingly being stronger ???? They are not stronger. The 'Exile' is the same stats as a standard 'Assault Rifle'. But my 'Exile' with AR Prof V and a complex damage modifier hits harder than your Duvolle. Basically, people ***** about whatever kills them. Every one doesn't have the resume that you have in your assault rifle arsenal but I was asking because I see these guns get A LOT of kills. I know that in this game you kill and get killed , that's a no brainer but sometimes the ways that it happen seem a bit cheesy. You'd actually be surprised how many people have AR Prof III, IV or V. The AR is the most commonly used weapon, and the Exile is the BPO version of it, and it has been given out / included in packages for more than a year. That's why it is seen a lot. Also, as soon as you notice something, you start taking note of it more; it's a brain thing. Just reaffirming that it is not because the BPO is more powerful than the ISK version.
Exactly. My Toxin AR hits like a Duvolle because I have the skills for a Duvolle, and running damage mods. Also, my core fitting skills are all 4 or 5, so my BPO or standard suit is as good or better as your Adv suit with your crappier skills. I'm just running a cheaper fit isk wise, but not skill wise. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 03:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I've been told that shields mean nothing I need to concentrate on armor and vise versa. Meta levels mean nothing. At some point with all the things that I have herd it has become confusing. I used skill points for some of the wrong things for me by listening to the advice of others. Everyone who plays this game has a different style and that's one of the things that I liked about this. I used this topic to try and find out about something that I was told that didn't matter so I appreciate all the positive feedback. You have answered most of the questions that I had. But can someone answer the question about blueprints weapons and the permanent weapon items that you can BUY seemingly being stronger ???? They are not stronger. The 'Exile' is the same stats as a standard 'Assault Rifle'. But my 'Exile' with AR Prof V and a complex damage modifier hits harder than your Duvolle. Basically, people ***** about whatever kills them. Every one doesn't have the resume that you have in your assault rifle arsenal but I was asking because I see these guns get A LOT of kills. I know that in this game you kill and get killed , that's a no brainer but sometimes the ways that it happen seem a bit cheesy. You'd actually be surprised how many people have AR Prof III, IV or V. The AR is the most commonly used weapon, and the Exile is the BPO version of it, and it has been given out / included in packages for more than a year. That's why it is seen a lot. Also, as soon as you notice something, you start taking note of it more; it's a brain thing. Just reaffirming that it is not because the BPO is more powerful than the ISK version. Exactly. My Toxin AR hits like a Duvolle because I have the skills for a Duvolle, and running damage mods. Also, my core fitting skills are all 4 or 5, so my BPO or standard suit is as good or better as your Adv suit with your crappier skills. I'm just running a cheaper fit isk wise, but not skill wise.
Hell it still works well. Now I have learned more from just the two of you and from running this piece than I have learned all the while I have played this game. No offence to anyone else because like I have said before there are some GREAT people who play this game and now I know that you guys have GREAT CHARACTER and CLASS and I thank you because you have help me more than you ever will know. Now I can't get upset at whatever happens. It's up to me to just get better. You guys have saved my Dust experience and made it better. |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
254
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 03:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
As this game grows, you'll never be able to know enough. As soon as you get something figured out, you'll change your fancy, and have to start learning all over again.
CCP propagates this mentality by refusing to properly document their games. This has the effect of encouraging their community to design and distribute their own tools and guides. Believe it or not, it actually strengthens the fan base. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 03:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:As this game grows, you'll never be able to know enough. As soon as you get something figured out, you'll change your fancy, and have to start learning all over again. CCP propagates this mentality by refusing to properly document their games. This has the effect of encouraging their community to design and distribute their own tools and guides. Believe it or not, it actually strengthens the fan base.
And strengthen their group of DEV's as well because they use the ideals and takes advantage of what is spoken and incorporate the spoken into the game for FREE I see just twisting it a little so that it's not that obvious , so it seems. They should hire some of you guys because you have so much knowledge for you to have not been on the DEV team. I read what people write and say and some of you guys and girls have the talent and are amazing. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2320
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 04:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
As stated, this game not only lacks documentation, it is still being completed and the radical changes involved invalidate a lot of you used to know.
Those of us who have been aboard for the whole ride can easily forget that we have a vast store of knowledge and experience that others lack. We picked it up a bit at a time and even had 5+ full character resets to learn the art of skilling from the ground up.
It was a bit simpler before, but everyone struggled at the start. I spawned into a dropship my first game and don't have a clue how to get out. I ran the very crappy starter fits CCP made back then (Heavy with a SL?!?) well after I should have been creating my own fits because it was confusing and not clear that I could do far better than them. I tried using the SL against infantry after dumb fire was removed. Fortunately the multiple resets have buried my worst mistakes.
I feel sorry for new players who have no idea why they are dying so much and don't know to best survive and stay ISK positive.
I suggest that everyone spend time in the Rookie Training Grounds forum to learn from the vets who have documented their hard won wisdom. But keep the age of the post in mind as some of that experience no longer applies due to changes. You may be a vet, but there's always something you haven't played with or experienced that someone else has.
The NPE really needs to push new players to that forum. |
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