DUST Search - Multi stage Factional Warfare battles - Dust players seeing the big picture

Aero Yassavi wrote:

From my perspective, and I don't have anyway to prove this but CCP can look into their stats and find out, the problem is two fold.

1) When you queue to search for a FW match, it looks for a district to attack. This is supported by the fact that if your faction owns 100% of the districts, thus no districts to attack, it results in the infamous Scotty error. Similarly, if there are a few districts to attack, but their is already a match currently going on in them, it will result in the Scotty error. So as soon as the losing faction gains a district, it will be the subject of all attacks. Thus, unless there is a massive surge by one side, like we saw when they introduced faction rewards, nothing will change. This is also further supported by the fact that since they introduced the new queue system for Faction Warfare, the state of control has always been one end of the extreme. Either one side owns 99-100%, or the other side owns 99-100%. The only time we see it inbetween are during these massive surges, which have flipped it to the other extreme in about 2 to 3 days.

2) Not many people like the Amarr, because the game portrays us as evil religious slavers. More people would rather be the space rebels, since popular sci-fi usually portrays the rebels as the good guys. Similarly, not many people like the Caldari who are portrayed as evil corporate pigs, while the Gallente are painted as the freedom fighter heroes of New Eden. Basically, since Dust 514's client doesn't share any of the positives of Amarr/Caldari or any of the negatives of Minmatar/Gallente, more people queue up for the latter. What this results in is all the people who don't care (i.e. they have all four factions checked) end up in Amarr/Caldari to balance the numbers out. This is supported at least from my experience of seeing several NPC corps from all races stacking up on the Amarr/Caldari side. And generally, these are not that good of players.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 13	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:27:00 - [1] - Quote This would be great to see & as for the "train" he probably means like a red or blue line wrapping around the planet in like a view of the planet, district to district before you enter the battle though you probably wouldn't see the lines if you were on the EVE side directly looking at the planet. This would help possibly balance The 4 Empires more but if the opposing team has a EVE Pilot it be great if they can do more & remain in orbit longer on they're side but wouldn't be so great if your on the receiving end XD it could drastically side things possibly too much but I like the link though. I also like the idea as the attacker has to work more to get the District in Factional. As we all saw the impact clone mercenaries can do in the Factional Event where it suddenly went from Gallente having a edge on Caldari & Minmitar practically ruling Amarr to Amarr & Caldari basically had fully conqurored Gallente & Minmitar. After the Event you can see how it has changed I also noticed good players playing strictly for Gallente & Minmitar to restabalize the territory. However doing it like this will be long & a tug of war people probably won't be able to have the time so perhaps the wait you have for each battle should be spaced longer then that, like a 30 minute break till next battle then 5 minutes in the war room also you should still get a reward for both sides for each battle incase 1 or more of the people in the battle has to leave a sec, relog or go offline.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 15	Posted - 2013.10.24 20:01:00 - [2] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: This is a fantastic idea. Would add a real sense of progression. Just gonna add a few ideas here. Not sure if already mentioned but I have not read through all the pages yet. -Why not at the end of the train of districts there be some kind of planetary control center/ fortress. Basically it would require a new game mode but would culminate in a huge final battle utilizing much of the district. It decides who controls the planet. Defenders have the advantage -Not sure if already mentioned but in addition to the main track leading to control of the planet there could be additional districts that would grant bonuses or off map support to the faction who controls it. I agree in bits of this a fortress of sorts be nice to see in the final fight for it & some benefits like say drones or something for the defending team, also bonuses to which Factions has it, let's say your a Amarr or Gallente loyalist, maybe you get passive rewards for being a loyalist like once a week you get something from helping that faction just like the SP reward for being active each day, the idea of the map changing in looks as it progresses is simply genious worn battle-feilds/change in day time for each fight & the MCC's moving up &/or back as it goes on.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 19	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:30:00 - [3] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: When waiting on the War Barge between battles CCP needs to make sure that Local Chat is set to the system the War Barge is in, and not the MercGÇÖs home system. This would mean that the MercGÇÖs on both sides in the conflict, as well as all the EVE pilots in the system, would be in the same chat channel. It would give a chance to say GÇ£Good FightGÇ¥, or to do some trash talking. I think it would help to make DUST feel just a little less like GÇ£just a lobby shooterGÇ¥, and give a little more of an MMO feel. Besides, technically this is how it is supposed to work. Admittedly, I have not checked Local during a battle to see if I am in that systemGÇÖs local. I've checked the Local in the War Room is the same as the Local in your Merc Quarters & yes it is odd to be in a different part of space but your still in your Local maybe they will add when you go in battle a 2nd channel that appears with the Team channel for both sides to talk on when you go into a match this would be exceptionally used in PC & FW I'd assume. Personally I'd love to see that & watch the enemy Team spam "LONG LIVE THE GALLENTE FEDERATION" & so forth in the channel.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 19	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:46:00 - [4] - Quote Also maybe if one has to leave the fight he not only receives rewards for the battles won & lost but if he or she is in a squad & that squad is on the team that wins the whole thing the 1 that had to leave maybe still gets rewarded but that's a bit far out their in my opinion.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 19	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:53:00 - [5] - Quote ty for informing me my fellow Amarrian brother. Undying loyalty to God, Infinite Glory to The Loyal Serfrim that serve him, & Long Life to The Empress that serves them both!
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 32	Posted - 2013.10.30 20:30:00 - [6] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: From my perspective, and I don't have anyway to prove this but CCP can look into their stats and find out, the problem is two fold. 1) When you queue to search for a FW match, it looks for a district to attack. This is supported by the fact that if your faction owns 100% of the districts, thus no districts to attack, it results in the infamous Scotty error. Similarly, if there are a few districts to attack, but their is already a match currently going on in them, it will result in the Scotty error. So as soon as the losing faction gains a district, it will be the subject of all attacks. Thus, unless there is a massive surge by one side, like we saw when they introduced faction rewards, nothing will change. This is also further supported by the fact that since they introduced the new queue system for Faction Warfare, the state of control has always been one end of the extreme. Either one side owns 99-100%, or the other side owns 99-100%. The only time we see it inbetween are during these massive surges, which have flipped it to the other extreme in about 2 to 3 days. 2) Not many people like the Amarr, because the game portrays us as evil religious slavers. More people would rather be the space rebels, since popular sci-fi usually portrays the rebels as the good guys. Similarly, not many people like the Caldari who are portrayed as evil corporate pigs, while the Gallente are painted as the freedom fighter heroes of New Eden. Basically, since Dust 514's client doesn't share any of the positives of Amarr/Caldari or any of the negatives of Minmatar/Gallente, more people queue up for the latter. What this results in is all the people who don't care (i.e. they have all four factions checked) end up in Amarr/Caldari to balance the numbers out. This is supported at least from my experience of seeing several NPC corps from all races stacking up on the Amarr/Caldari side. And generally, these are not that good of players. Someone posted this in a different post & I thought I'd bring it here as we all know about this & it just makes for another point to why this new FW style set should be implamented in.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 39	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:43:00 - [7] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: "Someone" XD
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 44	Posted - 2013.11.01 18:25:00 - [8] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Yesterday I made a new character for the heck of it and real that Amarr was selected by default for FW. Anyone else want to test and confirm? If so, that'd explain why Amarr FW has such horrible bluedots. indeed it would explain alot, & if 1 of you do test it I among others may be interested in the findings. Amarr seems the most popular race too people go with oddly. But I think these blue dots are horrible because they are new & fail to understand you must stay with Dust to get better in practically everything. And because they are new they'll be fighting with not the best against people with proto or atleast moderate fittings such as a militia AR vs GEK's & Duvolle's before they can get better. But you can still do good with miltia stuff but that's only if you know what your doing. But I digress, that's more of a seperate topic kinda.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 44	Posted - 2013.11.01 19:01:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Yesterday I made a new character for the heck of it and real that Amarr was selected by default for FW. Anyone else want to test and confirm? If so, that'd explain why Amarr FW has such horrible bluedots. The FW faction you have on your main is the default for all of your ALTs that share the same PSN And DJINN Altiim's default was Minmatar Very interesting, ty for telling us much appreciated this clears alot. I thought Caldari may be the default simply because the Caldari dropsuit is featured alot for Dust 514 in trailers & etc.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 53	Posted - 2013.11.01 19:07:00 - [10] - Quote Just going to say this now, but this idea is genius +OVER 9000 for this it's such a great idea & can't be lost, I among others really want to see this happen. P.S. - To Aero I Thank You.

Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 71	Posted - 2013.11.10 19:18:00 - [11] - Quote Bump, this post too good to disappear
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 74	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:05:00 - [12] - Quote Not exactly sure on that I know we've discussed it on deep levels
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 77	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:40:00 - [13] - Quote Bump :)
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure 86	Posted - 2013.11.18 19:11:00 - [14] - Quote Kazeno Rannaa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I did my best to compile the ideas in posts #237, #238, #239, and #240. I think I only got as far as the ideas on the 7th page though. Later I had an idea to improve Ambush OMS in post #250. OK. I have been trying to compile and group the ideas in relation to the responses from all of us. There seems to be primarily 8-10 of us that have been large contributors to the thread. I am hoping to get the entirety of it together hopefully before 1.7 releases so that the DEVs have a chance to maybe make some tweaks for 1.8 so that we may be able to see one of our suggested changes by 1.8 and maybe a full FW release by 1.9. Holiday is coming up and I hope this week to finish my compilation and have it posted by mid next week. Unfortunately school has been a particularly vicious mistress. That would greatly add-on to this idea in a more filed & organised manner
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 89	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:36:00 - [15] - Quote I grabbed this from a recent post I think it can connect & expand Aero's idea of a "train around the planeting connecting the Districts" this seems close to the idea District Outlines from 2006 http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/1%5B4%5D.jpg
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 90	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:13:00 - [16] - Quote Also reverting to the idea of the map, daytime & MCC's moving throughout the battle's/tug of war's. I really would like Factinal MCC's to release alongside this if possible, also since it goes like this - Ambush, Ambush OMS, Skirmish, Domination. (possibly a fortress or something for the defender at the end like we see in that 1 trailer with a MCC, troops, Tanks, LAV's rushing forward across a bridge to take the compound with maybe LBI's & drone's thrown in to aid the defenders maybe throw in weather for added epicness depending on what planet or District your fighting for but I digress) Skirmish would have to have a different ending then in publics because if you blow up the MCC how will that MCC be in the domination match next then? Hence maybe why their should be a new type of battle at the final push to take a fort or something for Factional's, unique & specific only to FW. So if you do it like suggested above it, it go like this - Amush: The attacker has suprised the owner of the District & a short exchange is made between the two factions. - Maybe have, weather affects & the daytime be set maybe at random for each Phase so that way, say Skirmish phase won't always have heavy snow affetcs & is at daytime for example everytime you fight skirmish for that District on that planet at that phase. Ambush OMS: The attacker has succesfully suprised & attacked the defenders & are making a way to gain foothold before they can be repelled. (for defender if this reverts from Stage 3 "Skirmish" the defender see's no need for reinforments a.k.a MCC's, CRU's & etc. to remain, why? because it costs the Empires money is why if your wondering why they would pull out all that. Then the defenders are now acting as a mop up operation you might say) Skirmish: The attacker has succesfully made they're presence known & have gained a strong foothold, with reinforcements arriving. The defender calls reinforcements as well (MCC & more clones as well as CRU's, LBI's & etc.) to begin a true repel campaign against the attacker. Compound: The attacker has succesfully beaten down the defenders stand, and now moving for full District control & have set they're eyes on the center piece/HQ of the District while the defender prepares for a last final, desperate stand to buy time for reinforcements. - All this is IF the attacker wins if the attacker looses it'll just revert to the last phase. If attacker or defender fully wins maybe have a 40 minute wait or so for that District on that planet to be open to attack again.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 90	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:45:00 - [17] - Quote To level it maybe give the attacker stronger attack bonuses, though the defenders will get more defence they'll actually need it as the enemy will be railing hard for a win
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 99	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:41:00 - [18] - Quote Bump for those who haven't seen this & may like to add more
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 99	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:55:00 - [19] - Quote Read all of this & you'll see alot of in-depth details lol
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 120	Posted - 2013.12.02 19:32:00 - [20] - Quote I meant in Skirmish that MCC is destroyed but SOMEHOW the blown-up MCC is in Domination? Dom & Skirm both have MCC's so you would have to explain why 1 is gone or something otherwise it seems off

Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:02:00 - [21] - Quote Hmm true forgot The War Barge does store MCC's & etc. or they can make a new game mode that too. However I think they might have to readd ISK reward with loyalty points in FW or you get ISK till you win the fight for the District then you get paid a huge amount of LP at the end. Since it'll be multistage I assume you'll be loosing ISK going back & forth so you'll need ISK reward in multistage FW somewhat. Pyrex points out that in every fight in Dust 514 the 2 sides rage & attack each-other with great strength until 1 side decides they're done loosing ISK & starts to loose.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 163	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:30:00 - [22] - Quote CCP needs to get this up seriously lol
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 165	Posted - 2013.12.21 19:48:00 - [23] - Quote omg CCP implament this already, although we The Amarr supporters are winning every match we go in atleast 85% we can't reclaim any territory. This is due to 2 reasons - The first being 2 Factions always has 90% - 100% of FW always & The 2nd we can't choose what District to fight for. The reason for no territory gain is this. As we've discussed before as soon as The Amarr gain a Distcict ALL Minmitar battle searches lock onto it. Thus we get 1 go on to the next win that 1 & we loose that last 1. It's - Win, Lost 1, Win, Lost 1, Win, Lost 1. Not counting when we actually loose a fight for a Minmitar held District. If you go Amarr you'll be attacker & only occasionally defender. This goes for Caldari too if you side with them. Through shere effort we reclaimed 14% & 5% of FW Constallation Territory by ourselves. The only way for Amarr or Caldari to (currently without Multi-stage FW implamented) to gain 50% or higher is if the majority of everyone supporting Minmitar & Gallente suddenly sided with Amarr & Caldari. That only happens during Factional Rewards - currently FW & LP is a broke idea & system as 1 can side with any side long enough to get what they want then go back siding with they're main Faction. Which does not encourage the staying with a specific side. Not to mention how fun & awesome this be if implamented anyway.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 172	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:37:00 - [24] - Quote btw quick update Aero is just now running for CPM. Got my vote just saying